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So, how’s that and especially the keyboard? 11kg, 88 keys, 2GB samples and the main ones sound pretty good. Where’s the catch, the Medeli action? The closest competitor is PX-5S but I don’t like the sounds. Informative thread on kbc about the SP6.... http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2890730/SP6#Post2890730
.... Jeff â–«ï¸ Yamaha P515 â–«ï¸ Roll Tide
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The PHA-4 Standard also has key sensors I believe. It's not entirely relevant when the hammer and key are linked. Btw, based on the connection point in the image, my guess is the K6 action is hard-linked (otherwise they would need to have some kind of padding/damping for a free hammer flying back up against the keystick, and that design typically doesn't have such...
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
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FWIW ES8 has key sensors too.
Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
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I own one, its not a 'bad' action. It feels similar to Yamaha GHS , but to me a bit better. So its in that middle ground category. If your planning on playing it quiet at home. The action is a bit loud. Not awful, but louder than some. For me it has been an awesome gigging board. It replaced a Yamaha MOX8 workstation. I like the user interface way better. Plus the SP6 weighs less. You can load any of the Forte SE sounds and any of the PC3 and Kore64 sounds. The sample objects are already in them. And the pianos sound a lot better in my opinion than the Yamaha. The interface is easy to setup a multi and its a quite capable controller. My only quibble is I wish it had more favorites, 5 is a bit limiting. But I'm using an iPad app 'setlist' that does program changes so the point is mute. It also has a very decent organ. For a low cost, light weight stage piano its hard to beat.
I previously owned an Sp4-7 which had a great form factor, internal power supply and a very good semi-weighted action. All metal and built solid! My ONLY complaint with it were the piano sounds, the triple strike pianos were really dated.
A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
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FWIW ES8 has key sensors too. It does? ![[Linked Image]](http://www.pianot.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/cn37_1_175.jpg) I see sensors under the hammer.
Yamaha P-515
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I see sensors under the hammer.
Plus, it bears noting that almost all hammer actions with "hammer sensors" will have the sensors closer to the hammer pivot (which is normally where the key and hammer meet). I don't think anyone short of Alpha Piano have the actual hammerheads strike the sensors (that's a wear and tear disaster).
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
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I see sensors under the hammer.
I saw the sensors under the keys, live, not on a not so clear picture of the Internet. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2796400/es8-opening.htmlMemory may be betraying me but I am pretty sure the sensors are pressed by the keys bottom, not the pseudohammers. I wish I had photographed from the side. Also, that picture of the action is weird, it would make ES8 much thicker than it really is.
Last edited by EVC2017; 02/13/19 07:42 PM.
Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
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It's pretty clear on your own picture showing the RH3 from below: ![[Linked Image]](https://i.ibb.co/6t0QvMV/DSC00520.jpg) In the upper half of the image you see the hammer shanks, behind the metal bar is the hammer pivot, directly adjacent to the hammers is the sensor board attached. The keys are are way above that, they can't reach the sensors directly.
Yamaha P-515
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To me it seems the key pushes a hammer under the front part of the key and the hammer pushes the sensors. It’s the same part of the hammer lever that’s pushed by the key and in turn pushes the sensors which is what may be confusing of one expects the far end to be the one that pushes sensors but other than that it’s still the hammer.
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To me it seems the key pushes a hammer under the front part of the key and the hammer pushes the sensors. It’s the same part of the hammer lever that’s pushed by the key and in turn pushes the sensors which is what may be confusing of one expects the far end to be the one that pushes sensors but other than that it’s still the hammer. I agree after a further look. To me this is basically pushing the sensors with the keys bottoms, even if there is the "hammers" levers in between.
Last edited by EVC2017; 02/13/19 07:50 PM.
Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
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To me it seems the key pushes a hammer under the front part of the key and the hammer pushes the sensors. It’s the same part of the hammer lever that’s pushed by the key and in turn pushes the sensors which is what may be confusing of one expects the far end to be the one that pushes sensors but other than that it’s still the hammer. That's how everyone does it. It's the slowest moving and least straining point to have the sensor contact.
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
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To me it seems the key pushes a hammer under the front part of the key and the hammer pushes the sensors. It’s the same part of the hammer lever that’s pushed by the key and in turn pushes the sensors which is what may be confusing of one expects the far end to be the one that pushes sensors but other than that it’s still the hammer. Indeed, and that is what matters, because only then the sensors can properly detect hammer inertia instead of just triggering at certain points of key travel like a synth action. Marked the hammer assembly in orange: ![[Linked Image]](http://666kb.com/i/e18u63vaqb7xfy1og.png)
Yamaha P-515
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I agree after a further look. To me this is basically pushing the sensors with the keys bottoms, even if there is the "hammers" levers in between.
A proper hammer action has freely movable hammers, which can escape. An action with a weight permanently attached to the keys is not a hammer action, it's a weighted synth action. A proper hammer action measures the speed of the free hammer to replicate how a piano works. A synth action measures the keys. Medeli builds weighted synth actions and Kurzweil uses them.
Yamaha P-515
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(previous reply deleted - I made a mistake)
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A proper hammer action has freely movable hammers, which can escape. An action with a weight permanently attached to the keys is not a hammer action, it's a weighted synth action. A proper hammer action measures the speed of the free hammer to replicate how a piano works. A synth action measures the keys.
Medeli builds weighted synth actions and Kurzweil uses them.
Well, there could be a whole discussion over what defines a "proper" hammer action, but even using your distinction, Medeli builds weighted synth actions with hammers and Kurzweil uses them. The hammer is an integral part of the way the action feels, even if it does not behave as you'd prefer. The keys do not feel simply like synth keys with weights (which defines the "semi-weighted" actions).
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Medeli builds weighted synth actions and Kurzweil uses them.
Well, there could be a whole discussion over what defines a "proper" hammer action, but even using your distinction, Medeli builds weighted synth actions with hammers and Kurzweil uses them. [/quote] Also, if we use so prescriptive a definition, then there are VERY few hammer action DPs that actually have "hammer actions." All of Yamaha's are out. I think Roland's as well, and maybe all of Kawai's plastic actions. You're left with only the Kawai AWA Pro, RM3 and Grand Feel class actions that really qualify. With all due respect to JoeT, I think that doesn't serve a very useful purpose...
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
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Where does the confusion come from? Here, have a GH3: ![[Linked Image]](https://usa.yamaha.com/files/C878C18756FB41E681E101D1210331F9_12074_699x411_481516e957eaef5e88e5e8f5a50f3024.jpg) 1. freely movable hammer 2. sensors sensing hammer movement. Conclusion: proper hammer action.
Yamaha P-515
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So, it's been a while since I've had my GH CP50, but as I recall from diassembling the action, the hammer in GH, GH3, and NW/NWX is captured to the key at this point, where the key/hammer interface lies (in green). meaning there's not just an upper-bound to allow the hammer to drop/push, but a lower bound as well to prevent the hammer from "escaping" the key (the hammer tab is captured in a top/bottom bound box) from the keystick: ![[Linked Image]](https://imgur.com/ehgTYJy.jpg)
Last edited by Gombessa; 02/13/19 11:25 PM.
Bosendorfer D214VC ENPro
Past: Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11, Kawai NV10
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I own one, its not a 'bad' action. It feels similar to Yamaha GHS , but to me a bit better. So its in that middle ground category. If your planning on playing it quiet at home. The action is a bit loud. Not awful, but louder than some. For me it has been an awesome gigging board. It replaced a Yamaha MOX8 workstation. I like the user interface way better. Plus the SP6 weighs less. You can load any of the Forte SE sounds and any of the PC3 and Kore64 sounds. The sample objects are already in them. And the pianos sound a lot better in my opinion than the Yamaha. The interface is easy to setup a multi and its a quite capable controller. My only quibble is I wish it had more favorites, 5 is a bit limiting. But I'm using an iPad app 'setlist' that does program changes so the point is mute. It also has a very decent organ. For a low cost, light weight stage piano its hard to beat.
I previously owned an Sp4-7 which had a great form factor, internal power supply and a very good semi-weighted action. All metal and built solid! My ONLY complaint with it were the piano sounds, the triple strike pianos were really dated. I’ve somehow missed that and it’s really informative. Thanks! I need a relatively cheap keyboard with pianos, epianos, pads, maybe some leads, strings. Hammer action is a must and low weight is almost a must. It’s only for occasional gigging and I already have some invitations by some old buddies. But nothing serious, so don’t want to pour more money than that. I really can’t see a better keyboard for my purpose. Maybe a Casio connected to a Mac with MainStage but not sure if it’s worth it.
Last edited by CyberGene; 02/23/19 03:03 PM.
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Just tried the action (without sound) - surprised how weighty it felt - definitely plenty for me. Shame it's not tri-sensor. (I probably don't need it, but I can't help it - I just want it)
Greg.
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