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Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
#2814199 02/12/19 06:46 PM
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First of all, hi smile First time here, however I've read these forums before.

Secondly - I am not a piano player and never was. My instrument is guitar, few years back I bought accordion and liked it to death and decided to 'try' piano finally.

Read a lot of stuff online and quickly found out P515 is coming out. That was back in October. I've had my BD back then and decided - why not? Bought it and received in November.

I must say I've never had a digital piano before. I have a synth, Motif XF, but that's a completely different story.

To me the feel of keys is perfect on P515 or almost perfect. Again, I am not a player so I can't judge. Sound quality of main Yamaha CFX Piano is great too. However, there is some problem to the 'sound' overall, and mainly to the sound of all other piano banks except the first one - maybe someone will help me out.

My problem is: sound overall for almost everything is quite 'nasal', which usually means a lot of mids somewhere. Not a great deal of bass, which is understandable, but overall EQ is somewhat ... strange.

Out of piano sounds I can only play on CFX. It does sound like this, I've recorded 3 samples straight to a flash drive: https://www.comfyco.com/temp/p515/USERAUDIO003.WAV (it's some random fluff).

I must say it sounds WAY better on my HSM80 monitors on computer than on piano itself.

However, the problem I have with all other piano sounds. For example, second sample which is supposed to be a famous Bösendorfer, sounds like that: https://www.comfyco.com/temp/p515/USERAUDIO002.WAV

It sounds more mellow and muddy even on monitors, however on piano - I can't play it. It's too muddy and nasal, almost like a joke. It's supposed to be a 1 of 2 primary voices there? ...

All other piano sounds sound too artificial with a lot of mid-range and like they're taken from some cheap $50 Casio back in 1995. Rock, Jazz pianos are absolutely unplayable on unit. Studio grand sounds like this: https://www.comfyco.com/temp/p515/USERAUDIO001.WAV

I must say it sounds almost ok to me on monitors, so I assume, there's a problem with either speakers or ... the way P515 is located. Of course it's against the wall. In apartment it can't be in different place. I tried to move it out to the middle of the room - a little better but not THAT better. I tried to play with reverb (it's 10 on default) and turn it off - sound doesn't differ. Sound boost is off. I also increased volume to 127 (as it was 87 or something) - it's just louder and that's it.


Any way I can get rid of that 'nasal', fake sound overall piano is producing? It's a pity I can only play on a main voice. Any advice/tips are welcomed.

P.S. I've also read most people use headphones. I don't know, maybe I have bad headphones, but these are my Sennheiser HD280 which SOUND AMAZING on everything, but directly into this piano they sound awful. Tiny, midrangey sound with no clarity and quite poor overall.

Last edited by encNJ; 02/12/19 06:50 PM.
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814223 02/12/19 07:14 PM
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Hmm, coincidentally I've just created another thread that's kind of similar to what you might be describing.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814227 02/12/19 07:25 PM
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Your recordings sound all fine to me on my PC listening setup.

A few words: It's a slab. A pair of 2x 120 W powered monitors, which cost almost half as much as the piano is obviously better than just 2x 15+5 W built-in speakers. How well the sound projection works depends in fact on the room and the placing of the piano there. You want lots of wood, books and cloth and as few glass or other smooth surfaces as possible. You get the best sound if have a real piano with it in the room, at high volume the soundboard starts co-vibrating.

DJ headphones aren't the best for piano. Digital pianos work best with open headphones. The headphone amplifier of the P-515 isn't very powerful, so lower impedance (20-50 ohms) headphones are recommended.

The P-515 has two separate CFX samples. Binaural (automatically enabled with headphones) and Stereo (on speakers). These can be toggled inside the System>Sound menu. This toggle also affects the other sounds, when headphones are plugged in.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814230 02/12/19 07:29 PM
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Give Kawai a try

Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814246 02/12/19 07:42 PM
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IMO the nasal sound, which I also heard on your files, is common to many onboard DP sounds. Try out pianoteq or a sampled VST if you can.

But I also agree that placement of the speakers and listening position can have a big effect on that nasal sound. Just going from headphones to loud speakers helps.

In general, the room has fundamental effects on the sound of any loudspeaker. Causes people to give up on loudspeakers constantly.

Have you tried messing with EQ? That should literally help reduce the nasal quality, but the rest of the balance may suffer if too much is required.


Beethoven, Bach -> Kawai CA-97 -> Garritan CFX Full -> Neumann Klein and Hummel 310s
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814257 02/12/19 07:54 PM
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I purchased the Yamaha P515 and returned it in 3 days because I could not "like" the sound.

I would do the same, if I were you.

The Kawai ES8 would be my suggestion.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
similar #2814258 02/12/19 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by similar
. . .
Have you tried messing with EQ? That should literally help reduce the nasal quality, but the rest of the balance may suffer if too much is required.


+1.

Words like "nasal", "tinny", etc -- they often suggest a tonal imbalance that can be fixed (or improved) with EQ.

If the sound is good over headphones, and good over your HSM80's:

. . . maybe you should blame the problem on the built-in loudspeakers on the P515, and use HD280's or HSM80's for listening to it.


. Charles
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Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
dmd #2814295 02/12/19 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
I purchased the Yamaha P515 and returned it in 3 days because I could not "like" the sound.

I took me a while to warm up to the headphones sound. That's why having a store with a 30 or 60 days return policy is a good thing. I can already tell, that it is impossible to go back to the action of my old digital. Despite struggling with new NWX during the first two weeks (I created a thread about it), I like it more every day.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
JoeT #2814297 02/12/19 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeT

DJ headphones aren't the best for piano. Digital pianos work best with open headphones. The headphone amplifier of the P-515 isn't very powerful, so lower impedance (20-50 ohms) headphones are recommended.


Which ones do you recommend?

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

. . . maybe you should blame the problem on the built-in loudspeakers on the P515, and use HD280's or HSM80's for listening to it.


I can't, unfortunately. Piano is in a bedroom, different room, my computer room w/ speakers is relatively small smile

The whole point of DP is, imo, an ease of use. You turn in on and play. Extra speakers, VST, etc. takes away this 'convenience' factor which is a huge deal for me.

Last edited by encNJ; 02/12/19 09:01 PM.
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814298 02/12/19 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by encNJ
Which ones do you recommend?

I would give Yamaha's own headphones HPH-150 a try.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814327 02/12/19 10:22 PM
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Before the question arrives, why I don't recommend the Sony MDR-7605 studio monitor headphones listed in my signature:

While they sound pretty good after equalizing, monitoring headphones are intended to expose flaws in your audio source. For maximum enjoyment you want the stuff, which hides those instead.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
JoeT #2814359 02/13/19 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeT
... monitoring headphones are intended to expose flaws in your audio source. For maximum enjoyment you want the stuff, which hides those instead.


Makes perfect sense.

Now, why do we not use that same logic when purchasing something to listen to the sound through the air ?

We seem to be buying MONITORS and then wondering why they do not sound warm and fuzzy.

What should we be buying ?


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
dmd #2814376 02/13/19 02:50 AM
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Sounds like an ok but not great recording of a Yamaha. The internal speakers are what they are -- great for convenience but nowhere near discriminating audiophile quality. I've had good results with the Senn HD650 on both of my Yamahas at home.

My friend recorded this on his P-515


All of that said, I'd certainly welcome the P-515 for my office at home.


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Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
Dave Ferris #2814387 02/13/19 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
My friend recorded this on his P-515



Lovely playing. The CFX sounds pretty nice to me.

One thing that hasn't yet been pointed out about the Bosendorfer sound...to my ears Bosendorfers really do sound 'nasal'. I like the Yamaha version actually. To play 'live' in one's room (through headphones especially) I think it can sound beautiful but I often hear a nasal quality in real Bosendorfers. The Nord 'Imperial Grand' sample for instance, while sounding very different from Yamaha's iteration, is extremely nasal in the mid range to my ears.


C. Bechstein Model B | Roland RD-1000 | Kawai VPC1
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814392 02/13/19 04:37 AM
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I too joined this forum to specifically address the " problem" I had with Yamaha P515.

"Nasal sound" ? You are not wrong and there is nothing wrong with your headphone nor the position of where you put the piano. Nothing wrong with your ears either.
The internal speaker is pretty good and powerful much better than the previous P series (115 & 255) the problem is the Sound itself.

The CFX on P515 is actually pretty good it has has a huge dynamic range and powerful bass but also lack of clarity-some muddyness in the mids and bass. The sound is warm and yet not rounded enough.
There is a bit too much mid range and the built in EQ can do nothing about it, it only makes thing worse.
The Bosendorfer for me is pretty much rendered almost unplayable, too muddy, too thick, too flat sounding and the sampling is uneven. So far from being the real Imperial 290.
Ballad and bright piano are pretty good and the rest of the piano sound is a joke.

The best piano sound from P515 is actually the number one piano on the XG or whatever you call it - hit Function and Others it will take you there and you know what I am talking about.

Also, try this:
for CFX
go to function - voice edit - velocity curve set to 59 and brightness set to +5. Piano room - set body resonance to 8 or more.
Bosendorfer:
voice edit - velocity curve to 62-63, brightness +8, Touch set to light 1


1931 Steinway model A-4, Kawai ES8, Korg Grandstage, Yamaha Motif ES6,
Previous :Yamaha P515, Yamaha MX88, MOXF 61, Triton Extreme 61,
Virtual Instruments: Keyscape, Galaxy Steinway, NI pianos and Wave Rhapsody.
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
Andrew B #2814396 02/13/19 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew B
1931 Steinway model A-4, Kawai ES8, Korg Grandstage, Motif ES6, Yamaha P515*, Yamaha MX88*, MOXF 61*, Triton Extreme 61*, Roland HP1000* (*=sold). Virtual Instruments: Keyscape, Galaxy Steinway, NI pianos and Wave Rhapsody.

That's a lot of toys smile

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Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814403 02/13/19 05:20 AM
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I'm noticing the mid-range issue now, but hadn't until now. It's all too hard - I'm putting on some AC/DC.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
Tyrone Slothrop #2814405 02/13/19 05:28 AM
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Thanks, I find happiness in piano is tough to find


1931 Steinway model A-4, Kawai ES8, Korg Grandstage, Yamaha Motif ES6,
Previous :Yamaha P515, Yamaha MX88, MOXF 61, Triton Extreme 61,
Virtual Instruments: Keyscape, Galaxy Steinway, NI pianos and Wave Rhapsody.
Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
sullivang #2814420 02/13/19 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
I'm noticing the mid-range issue now, but hadn't until now. It's all too hard - I'm putting on some AC/DC.

Greg.


You hadn’t noticed before because there is no issue. What are we exactly expecting from two tiny speakers + tweeters? cry

Re: Yamaha P515 - Nasal Sound
encNJ #2814421 02/13/19 06:42 AM
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Hang on - all the recordings here are direct - yes? I don't have a P515 - only going by demos. I'm hearing something bothersome now, but hadn't before, in other demos.

Greg

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