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Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: TronPlayer] #2813834
02/11/19 10:55 PM
02/11/19 10:55 PM
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Gombessa Offline
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That's definitely an interesting claim.

On the video, you can clearly see that even when he plays "into the keys," the angle of depression remains as steep as when he's playing near the keyslip (signifying a pivot just beyond the fallboard). So I have a feeling it's just a very lightly-weighted action. But I'll be happy to eat my words when units are available to test smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: sullivang] #2813857
02/12/19 12:26 AM
02/12/19 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
At time 1:50 there is mention that they've (Casio) have made it so the keys are easy to play near the top

Every non-spring digital piano action is playable near the fallboard.

However it doesn't matter mich how easy it is to press down the keys near the pivot, the weight doesn't matter much.

The question is: How much actual control do you have there? How well can you differentiate between various dynamic levels with 1 mm of key travel remaining?


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: Gombessa] #2813908
02/12/19 05:17 AM
02/12/19 05:17 AM
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sullivang Offline
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Originally Posted by Gombessa

On the video, you can clearly see that even when he plays "into the keys," the angle of depression remains as steep as when he's playing near the keyslip (signifying a pivot just beyond the fallboard).


I don't follow - how could the "angle of depression" vary according to the playing position on the key? The angle is fixed, according to the pivot length.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: TronPlayer] #2813915
02/12/19 05:36 AM
02/12/19 05:36 AM
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(wondering whether you still don't understand the idea - it would be a mechanism that allows the short/compact key to move in the same trajectory that it would move, if it were a long key with a long pivot. It would still have only one "virtual" pivot, which means the angle would be the same no matter where on the key it is played. If you really did think I meant a variable pivot - that would be a very strange action indeed. ;^) If the virtual pivot idea were feasible, then maybe it would be possible to allow the keys to remain purely horizontal - i.e - an infinitely long pivot - superior to any real piano.

This has been discussed before a bit - I don't think I thought of this idea.

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 02/12/19 05:37 AM.
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: TronPlayer] #2813936
02/12/19 07:45 AM
02/12/19 07:45 AM
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Bachus Offline
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Both actions are not meant to be realistic piano actions//
If you want that, look at the sl88 grand..

I like the GHS on my modx8, its more like akronos gh3 action..
Or a Nord stage action..
It allows you to play any kind of sound/organs/synth..
and not just piano’s..
Its action still allows good controll over piano sounds..

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: sullivang] #2813954
02/12/19 08:22 AM
02/12/19 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
(wondering whether you still don't understand the idea - it would be a mechanism that allows the short/compact key to move in the same trajectory that it would move, if it were a long key with a long pivot. It would still have only one "virtual" pivot, which means the angle would be the same no matter where on the key it is played. If you really did think I meant a variable pivot - that would be a very strange action indeed. ;^) If the virtual pivot idea were feasible, then maybe it would be possible to allow the keys to remain purely horizontal - i.e - an infinitely long pivot - superior to any real piano.

This has been discussed before a bit - I don't think I thought of this idea.

Greg.

If I understood you correctly, then the CME xkey pro (a portable keyboard) has such action. The keys can be pressed at any point as they have no pivot point. Basically they behave like a large size key on a computer keyboard. Although this is a good compact keyboard, the action is definitely not superior to a real piano ;-)

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: TronPlayer] #2814057
02/12/19 01:22 PM
02/12/19 01:22 PM
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sullivang Offline
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arc7urus: that's very interesting! Yes, that's exactly what I mean. And yes, it still has to have a hammer feel. 😃

Greg

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: TronPlayer] #2814063
02/12/19 01:29 PM
02/12/19 01:29 PM
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Personally, I think it's easy to get carried away when evaluating overly-vague marketing claims. The fact is, the way the rep played the key in the video, jabbing down on the top of the key with the a fully extended finger, would allow you to play any keyboard, regardless of how shallow the pivot is. My own (somewhat skeptical) take here is that there isn't any magic going on here. There isn't a dual-hinge pivot, there isn't a centered track like in a PC keyboard, there's nothing actual or virtual that would physically simulate a different pivot, there's just some weighting optimization or grease applied to smooth the action and make the short pivot more tolerable. If there was any more than that, I'm sure we'd be hearing no end to the innovation/revolution it brings.

Again, I'm looking forward to trying it, and would be happy to be proven wrong on this point. I just don't see much justification yet for some of the more creative solutions smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: TronPlayer] #2814073
02/12/19 01:43 PM
02/12/19 01:43 PM
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sullivang Offline
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Gombessa: agreed - if it was something substantial it would get a far larger mention.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: Gombessa] #2814168
02/12/19 05:24 PM
02/12/19 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TronPlayer
While she loves the GHS, she did find it a tad slow for optimal synth but was very happy with it overall.

From what I've played, I'd say TP100 feels slower than GHS.

Originally Posted by JoeT

This has nothing in common with a proper piano action. It's a typical weighted synth keyboard action.

A weighted synth action would be what is called semi-weighted. It has a distinctly different feel than something which incorporates a hammer mechanism, regardless of pivot point.

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio [Re: lophiomys] #2814321
02/12/19 10:09 PM
02/12/19 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lophiomys
TronPlayer
Since you have an accoustic upright and a knowledgeable daugther, give her a budget with a checklist for features and send her shopping. There is not much, that could go wrong, if she would be choosing for herself.
HTH


Bingo...
Even if you can't find the specific models you are looking at, find other brands or models that use the same action.

I would just say to give her a little guidance so she doesn't go for an ultra light action, which does almost always appeal to non professional players. That is why you see all these posts on other sites for "beat maker" style keyboards.. Nothing wrong with that, but you need to consider your application. If you are making beats using one finger, go for it. Wanting to play a decent imitation of a real piano is another kettle of fish... Best wishes... Sounds like you get it!

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