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Composition help. #2808299
01/29/19 06:40 PM
01/29/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
M
Meelays Offline OP
Junior Member
Meelays  Offline OP
Junior Member
M

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
Can anyone help me with a new piece I'm making. I'm stuck at this one part, I've been stuck on it for over a week cannot figure it out for the life of me. Is anyone up to give it a listen and tell me if I'm heading in the right direction with it?

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Re: Composition help. [Re: Meelays] #2808308
01/29/19 07:08 PM
01/29/19 07:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
M
Meelays Offline OP
Junior Member
Meelays  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
https://vocaroo.com/i/s1gP158Kwt6X?...jKo4WNXVTb6ajRjAaqJLdZOujeSuhdFAz3G9D_r0

Here is a link to the piece. It's for the goddess of Chaos and discord. The first 7 minutes I'm pretty happy with and don't plan on changing anything about it. There is a 2 piano which begins at 6:57 (sorry if there is a slight delay in it, i had to merge this audio together, so might sound awkward but it won't be like that in final version) that's my problem. When I first started this piece I wanted the 2 piano part to be the star of the whole thing, I wanted it to be quite discordant and crazy, and go on for a long while. almost like a guitar solo. So I have one piano doing a repeated bass arpeggio, and the other piano going wild on the high notes. I wanted this part to go on for a while but it just sounds like it's ending soon, but I don't want to end. How do I keep this going?? Maybe I should take out the melody that begins at 8:13?? Because to me that sounds like an ending melody.

This is what I had in mind of doing when I started the 2 piano part I wanted 4 different 'piano solos' as I call them, so i came up with this. https://vocaroo.com/i/s1j1wDHBlkj1?...r8GklsifJf9JU-whywr_QWMSg75mk8K7GAT68OQo

the first solo being from 0 - 1:18 then from 1:18 - 2:25 is the second solo then from there on it goes into the third.
but this didn't fit with the piece at all, maybe my melodies are off??? It's supposed to be quite discordant. I just don't know. and it's just one cluster of chaos. maybe I need resolves between them??? which I tried as well but every time I put a resolve after a 'piano solo' it sounds like the whole piece is coming to an end end. With each piano solo I change the key that the bass arpeggio is in, so maybe for the 2 piano part I should just keep it in 1 key instead?? maybe that'll fit better. I don't know. anyone have any suggests? or any classical pieces or metal pieces for that matter that go in a similar direction that I'm going in? I'm lost

Re: Composition help. [Re: Meelays] #2808992
01/31/19 01:36 PM
01/31/19 01:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
M
Meelays Offline OP
Junior Member
Meelays  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
Nevermind this post, I figured it out.

Re: Composition help. [Re: Meelays] #2809520
02/01/19 03:41 PM
02/01/19 03:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,425
Urbandale, Iowa
S
Steve Chandler Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Steve Chandler  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,425
Urbandale, Iowa
Hi Meelays,

Is this piece improvised? It sounds like you've cobbled together improvised bits. Do you enjoy listening to this piece? It seems to build quickly to a high level of expression, but what are you expressing? It sounds like a lot teen angst and frustration and nothing else. As an old man I didn't find this an enjoyable listening experience.

Your improvised bits seldom have more than two chords to them so overall your harmony is very static. Your fast runs are things you can play easily so again you don't transpose them to other keys and the overall harmony remains static. Your rhythm is very square, in general dissonant music needs changes in the rhythm to help keep the music interesting. Think odd beats and/or syncopation. Once you get going the texture remains the same, dense banging. More successful music gradually builds and is only very dense for a brief climax. An unrelenting tsunami of sound gets boring quickly

As someone who's been a composer for a long time (almost half a century) I find that how people respond to my music has become more important to me over time. For that reason I try to craft music that has a variety of paths to sounding appealing, but the basic ingredients are melody, harmony and rhythm. Melody refers to recognizable thematic concepts, the more strongly recognizable the better. Harmony, pretty isn't good enough, it has to be interesting, a bit of dissonance is a good thing, but your piece was nothing but dissonance. The study of harmony is a life long pursuit. Rhythm, break it up once in a while, turn it around, find ways to use rhythm as a method of adding surprise. While I'm on the notion of surprise, harmony can add that too. Strive to bring emotion into your music, but be sure to vary it. Find ways to aspire to more positive feelings.

If you're happy with your piece that's great, if not then I hope I've given you some helpful ideas.

Re: Composition help. [Re: Steve Chandler] #2809552
02/01/19 04:39 PM
02/01/19 04:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
M
Meelays Offline OP
Junior Member
Meelays  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
Thank you for taking the time to listen to my piece. No, not improvised but it does sound like that due to my poor composing skills. I've decided to cut it into movements. So it will be 3 movements. I get lost when I compose big works like this so maybe cutting it up will help. We are opposites. I think you commented on my Ares one as well a while ago and didn't like it hahaha which is fine, my piano playing is definitely not for everyone and I have a lot to work on. Just trying to have some fun with it and see what the piano can do. And nope I'm definitely not happy with it, it's pretty much trash right now, but I'll keep working on it see where it leads. Thank you for your comment and listening.

I have another question. I've decided the part from the beginning to 4:40 will be the basis of the first movement. but it's just such a big buildup, how can I end something like that? any ideas? I might rework that whole first part maybe add some more coherent melody in there like you said.

Thanks!

Re: Composition help. [Re: Meelays] #2809582
02/01/19 05:59 PM
02/01/19 05:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
M
Meelays Offline OP
Junior Member
Meelays  Offline OP
Junior Member
M

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
This post can be deleted if someone wants to delete it. I was going to delete it but couldn't.

Re: Composition help. [Re: Meelays] #2813692
02/11/19 05:58 PM
02/11/19 05:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,425
Urbandale, Iowa
S
Steve Chandler Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Steve Chandler  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,425
Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted by Meelays

I have another question. I've decided the part from the beginning to 4:40 will be the basis of the first movement. but it's just such a big buildup, how can I end something like that? any ideas? I might rework that whole first part maybe add some more coherent melody in there like you said.

Thanks!

The easiest way to end something that builds up big is to get soft again. Liszt's B minor Sonata is 25 minutes, it starts soft, builds up then down then up and so on to a huge climax, then gets soft again. Give it a listen, it's an amazing piece. There are many exceptional performances on Youtube, but I've liked Martha Argerich's best for a three or four decades. Here's a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n04GkRTC_Lo

Re: Composition help. [Re: Steve Chandler] #2813840
02/11/19 11:12 PM
02/11/19 11:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
M
Meelays Offline OP
Junior Member
Meelays  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 18
Thank you Steve Chandler !! I love that one as well, masterpiece! Haven't listened to it in a while.

Thank you for your input, I agree. But I decided to cut out that first part entirely. You're right - there's no real coherent melody and it's just straight 4 minutes of the same thing so I'm scrapping that whole 4 minutes or so and re-doing it completely. But I'll keep that in mind if I get stuck on a buildup again, which I probably will.

Thanks for your help.


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