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Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
#2813511 02/11/19 11:45 AM
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Hi!,
I need a keyboard midi controller for my daughter and would appreciate input on how the action of the SL88 Studio compares to the Yamaha GHS (P45, 125, etc.). I know many dislike the Yamaha GHS action, but she really likes it. Unfortunately there is nowhere close to test the SL88 Studio, nor have I been able to locate another Fatar TP100 keybed for comparison.

There are several reasons we're looking at the SL88 over Yamaha - Price, Aftertouch, Size (desk mounted), velocity adjustments, and mod tweaks as she really likes the idea of the sticks on the SL88.

One area of concern is the stiffness of the keys. She plays deep within the keybed while performing scales which is not enjoyable on synth action keybeds. On the other hand, she is a "piano first" player but something too heavy compromised synth play-ability for her. While she loves the GHS, she did find it a tad slow for optimal synth but was very happy with it overall.

I know keybed feel is very subjective which is why I narrowed it down to what your opinions may be on the TP/100LR action in the SL88 Studio compared to Yamaha GHS action specifically.

Thank you!

Last edited by TronPlayer; 02/11/19 11:49 AM.
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813525 02/11/19 12:22 PM
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Hi there,

I'll chime in my 2 cents worth as I owned both of those keyboards...first of all the GHS, if you've never touched a decent acoustic piano you'll be forgiven for thinking the GHS feels like a decent acoustic piano action. It's not terrible, it's just so fundamental and the price reflects this...where it falls short is when you then get a bit better and get access to a) decent acoustic pianos or b) better digital piano actions...then you long for something better.

The SL88 studio (I had the SL73 - same action, less keys) & that action is very different to the GHS especially in terms of weight - yes much heavier and whilst it is weighted I recall it not being graded so it's the same weight across the board.

I preferred the SL action because I used it as a practice board and wanted a heavier action for practicing (whilst some advocate working on heavy actions some do not condone this - so take your pick/side :)) however I traded it in as I preferred the SL88 Grand which has the TP40W action (similar weight to the TP100 e.g. on the heavy side) but this one is graded.

Having read the above so far, is that something that your daughter would like to pursue still (considering you said she is a "piano first player") or should you be looking at something more pianistic like...?

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
jamiecw #2813563 02/11/19 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jamiecw
Hi there,

I'll chime in my 2 cents worth as I owned both of those keyboards...first of all the GHS, if you've never touched a decent acoustic piano you'll be forgiven for thinking the GHS feels like a decent acoustic piano action. It's not terrible, it's just so fundamental and the price reflects this...where it falls short is when you then get a bit better and get access to a) decent acoustic pianos or b) better digital piano actions...then you long for something better.

The SL88 studio (I had the SL73 - same action, less keys) & that action is very different to the GHS especially in terms of weight - yes much heavier and whilst it is weighted I recall it not being graded so it's the same weight across the board.

I preferred the SL action because I used it as a practice board and wanted a heavier action for practicing (whilst some advocate working on heavy actions some do not condone this - so take your pick/side :)) however I traded it in as I preferred the SL88 Grand which has the TP40W action (similar weight to the TP100 e.g. on the heavy side) but this one is graded.

Having read the above so far, is that something that your daughter would like to pursue still (considering you said she is a "piano first player") or should you be looking at something more pianistic like...?


Thanks for the reply. According to Kraft music and several other reviews, the SL88 Studio does have a graded keybed as well. Without seeing price, she liked the the Yamaha DGX660, MX88 and MOXF8, which all use the GHS action I believe, and preferred them over all Casio's and the Roland F120.

We have a Yamaha U3 upright but she now would like something for MIDI recording since starting Sibelius and Logic Pro. She's studied piano for almost 10 years, and has played on dozens of pianos so she's not a complete noob. At this point, I didn't try to hunt down a VPC1 or feel the need to explain to her why she shouldn't like the GHS (ha-ha).

My dilemma is that I want to purchase the SL88 Studio over the Grand mainly for price. I've also seen several reviews of those who say the two feel very similar and actually prefer the Studio version. You said it was very different from the GHS. In what ways specifically? How does it compare in weight, stiffness, etc... ?

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813575 02/11/19 02:05 PM
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Hello,

the main disadvantage with these „cheap“ actions is the short pivot point which makes the device compact. With this short pivot point it is really difficult to play „in the keys“ with subtle nuances. With a short pivot point you will need much more force In the keys than outside. I once owned a Yamaha p115 with GHS action. The action itself is ok, but playing „in the keys“, which is often necessary, is terrible with the GHS action. I don’t know if the SL88 is better in that regard, but the SL88 keyboard looks pretty compact too, therefore it might have the same problem with the short pivot point.

Daniel

Last edited by danielp11; 02/11/19 02:09 PM.

KAWAI CS11 (sold KAWAI CA 97), KAWAI GX2 acoustic grand piano (sold SCHIMMEL acoustic upright)
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813592 02/11/19 02:51 PM
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TronPlayer
Since you have an accoustic upright and a knowledgeable daugther, give her a budget with a checklist for features and send her shopping. There is not much, that could go wrong, if she would be choosing for herself.
HTH

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
danielp11 #2813605 02/11/19 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by danielp11
Hello,

the main disadvantage with these „cheap“ actions is the short pivot point which makes the device compact. With this short pivot point it is really difficult to play „in the keys“ with subtle nuances. With a short pivot point you will need much more force In the keys than outside. I once owned a Yamaha p115 with GHS action. The action itself is ok, but playing „in the keys“, which is often necessary, is terrible with the GHS action. I don’t know if the SL88 is better in that regard, but the SL88 keyboard looks pretty compact too, therefore it might have the same problem with the short pivot point.

Daniel


I think people really exaggerate how much of an issue this really is. It's barely even noticable. I've played on a P45 (and now P125) for quite a while, most of it classical repertoire, and I never even noticed that until I started reading this board. The action is so light that it doesn't matter.

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
Scriavel Bachmanin #2813619 02/11/19 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Scriavel Bachmanin

I think people really exaggerate how much of an issue this really is. It's barely even noticable.

It depends on physiology. You realize human hands come in different shapes and forms? wink


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813643 02/11/19 04:49 PM
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I hope one day someone invents a compact action that simulates a long pivot. That'd be very cool.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813681 02/11/19 05:43 PM
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I Hope the Casio PX-S1000 and the Casio PX-S3000 IS the compact action that simulates a long pivot!

Casio PX-S1000 and PX-S3000


The heavens declare the glory of God;
and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
brooster #2813684 02/11/19 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by brooster
I Hope the Casio PX-S1000 and the Casio PX-S3000 IS the compact action that simulates a long pivot!

Casio PX-S1000 and PX-S3000


Are there any pictures/animations of the action...in action? smile

It would be easy to tell if it does simulate a longer pivot (it would need to be double-hinged, or something similar).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813689 02/11/19 05:55 PM
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Pianoworld Casio PX-S1000 and Casio PX-S30000

If you look through the postings in the threads I sent there is a diagram of the action

A longer pivot is a good thing but a better feeling action is the goal.

Last edited by brooster; 02/11/19 05:59 PM.

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Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
Gombessa #2813695 02/11/19 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
It would be easy to tell if it does simulate a longer pivot (it would need to be double-hinged, or something similar).




Pause at 0:38 and you can see the shortest pivot ever. From this perspective you can see the white back of the B showing up behind the C# key when the B fully depressed and the steep angle. Another great perspective is 1:43, where you can see the back of the black keys (Bb, D#) not moving at all, telling you that the pivot is right there and not even an inch behind.

This has nothing in common with a proper piano action. It's a typical weighted synth keyboard action.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
Scriavel Bachmanin #2813700 02/11/19 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Scriavel Bachmanin
Originally Posted by danielp11
Hello,

the main disadvantage with these „cheap“ actions is the short pivot point which makes the device compact. With this short pivot point it is really difficult to play „in the keys“ with subtle nuances. With a short pivot point you will need much more force In the keys than outside. I once owned a Yamaha p115 with GHS action. The action itself is ok, but playing „in the keys“, which is often necessary, is terrible with the GHS action. I don’t know if the SL88 is better in that regard, but the SL88 keyboard looks pretty compact too, therefore it might have the same problem with the short pivot point.

Daniel


I think people really exaggerate how much of an issue this really is.


I agree.


C. Bechstein Model B | Roland RD-1000 | Kawai VPC1
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
brooster #2813702 02/11/19 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by brooster
Pianoworld Casio PX-S1000 and Casio PX-S30000

If you look through the postings in the threads I sent there is a diagram of the action

A longer pivot is a good thing but a better feeling action is the goal.


Is it this one?

[Linked Image]

Pivot is not everything indeed, but it is important, and the shorter the pivot, the more it matters. The diagram shows an extremely compact action. It certainly looks like an extremely short pivot, but it'll be interesting to play it and see how it feels.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813707 02/11/19 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TronPlayer


Thanks for the reply. According to Kraft music and several other reviews, the SL88 Studio does have a graded keybed as well. Without seeing price, she liked the the Yamaha DGX660, MX88 and MOXF8, which all use the GHS action I believe, and preferred them over all Casio's and the Roland F120.

My dilemma is that I want to purchase the SL88 Studio over the Grand mainly for price. I've also seen several reviews of those who say the two feel very similar and actually prefer the Studio version. You said it was very different from the GHS. In what ways specifically? How does it compare in weight, stiffness, etc... ?


Having had a look at the Kraft music website the SL88 studio’s action is defined as hammer action vs graded hammer on the grand so I’d be cautious about that...I don’t recall the SL73 being graded but it wasn’t something I tried to watch out for either. I did enjoy playing it, it’s a shame you can’t try it out.

The GHS was lighter and unfortunately I never used it as a midi controller, I disliked it early on. I found the TP100 more responsive but was using it with pianoteq VSTs which does help. The great thing about the SLs is that you are in control of the velocity so you can adjust it as you wish. If those were my only 2 options today it would be the SL studio. The Grand is heavier than both though...

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813710 02/11/19 06:34 PM
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If Casio had developed a long pivot simulation, it would be a world first - they would have made it very clear in their marketing.

Greg.

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
sullivang #2813713 02/11/19 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
If Casio had developed a long pivot simulation, it would be a world first - they would have made it very clear in their marketing.

Greg.


Well, Casio's GP-series has a very long pivot action. It's looks quite elegant and fittingly high-end, and they do highlight it in their marketing smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813721 02/11/19 06:56 PM
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Gombessa - I said *simulation*. A compact action with the same feel and key travel over the length of the key, as a real long pivot action.

Gteg

Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813726 02/11/19 07:02 PM
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Ah.It does sound like we're in agreement--if the new Casios had some kind of new mechanism that allowed for a longer pivot feel in a compact action, that'd be news and it would have been mentioned by now.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha GHS VS. Studiologic SL88 Studio
TronPlayer #2813832 02/11/19 10:41 PM
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At time 1:50 there is mention that they've (Casio) have made it so the keys are easy to play near the top:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=JnIQzHrV-8A&t=1m50s

So yes - it will be interesting to try it.

Greg.

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