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One of the sad things is there is a percentage of new piano buyers that finance their purchase and can’t buy it cash. These same buyers are probably not in a financial situation where their 6 figure piano can just sit there for their enjoyment when Mom loses her job, another baby’s on the way, Daughter needs braces, Dad is injured.
Two of my friends own a Steinway piano. One friend said, “Unlike other pianos Steinways only appreciate!” I ran home later to check Larry Fine’s book. It did show a separate deprecation schedule for Steinway from every other piano but it was still a pretty steep decent the first 10 - 20 years. Even steeper if you’re still paying finance charges for the first 5 to 7 years.
Thank sweet heaven I bought my Yamaha cold hard cash and it’s only an investment in my entertainment and musical enjoyment. And the shrieking reality is, even if I will the piano to my grand nephew, he’d probably sell it and stick with digital.

I think this thread is relevant to this point.

The idea that a piano (particularly Steinway) "appreciates" in value was a marketing ploy dreamed up by none other than STEINWAY. Same with: "A fine piano (presumably Steinway) will last a lifetime". This is absolute "Marketing 101" and has no connection with reality.

HOWEVER, many with more money than brains fall for it. They don't tell you up front that you will have to rebuild the thing every 30-40 years to actually make that happen. That won't sell pianos.

Sorry...pianos are just like cars, houses, lawnmowers, teeth, and every other mechanical thing on the market. Some are better than others, but they all need regular maintenance and eventual rebuilding or replacement.

Pwg

What is the criteria for buying a new Steinway vs. Used?

1. Buyer has the means to pay cash?
2. Buyer intends to hold on to instrument for long term (i.e., not looking to sell in 5-10 years)?
3. Buyer appreciates Steinway brand but not treating as investment?

It seems as though buying a piano is much more risky and complicated than the average person would like. You buy brand new and the thing loses 25 - 30% of it's value when it arrives at your home. You buy used and you have to grapple with "genuine" Steinway part replacement or "superior" part replacement, and then you should only buy from a "reputable" rebuilder! Who defines reputable?

It's too bad the buying experience could not be more enjoyable...

When we were buying our upright .I tried the Steinways K52 the sales lady although extremely enthusiastic to make a sale never
told us these fairy tales .
I bought the German piano standing next to the K52.
Previous to this we visited a huge store which sold Bechstein ,Bluthner and Fazioli. The sales manager a Russian lady ,who even
though she had really weird ideas like ."a Yamaha piano is hardly a piano " never tried to openly deceive us into believing that if we
bought the Bechstein Konzert 8 (that we were interested in)that we would be making an investment.
We were well aware anyway that it's the exact opposite.
I think it is rather depraved to try and mislead people this way .

Greetings,
I can't comment on sales' pitches since I am not in the showrooms, but I am constantly asked why my appraisal of an older Steinway is so much less than what was expected. At the moment, I see 20 year old L's and M's sell for $ 20-24,000, when they show up in the private sector. And they don't sell fast. It is a common thing in the technical world to encounter Steinway owners who think their instrument is worth three times what the market says it is, but there is a glut of barely used, and/or rebuildable Steinways available, and a shrinking pool of people that will buy a $80,000 musical instrument. If you want the Steinway experience, you don't have to have a new one, (and, we could discuss what the "experience" is today compared to what it was in 1925, as the pianos are not the same build).

I agree with Ed Mc. above, from an investment perspective, the restored or rebuilt Steinway is light-years ahead of buying new. If a new piano was a guarantee of stellar quality, that might be less true, but boutique restorers are producing results these days that surpass the originals coming out of the factory. The one thing a customer HAS to have before buying a restored piano is an experienced and proven technician on their side, otherwise, the charlatans, scoundrels, mountebanks, and outright quacks that infest this business will fleece them.

regards,

Now this sounds like excellent advice!

An exacerbating factor is that Steinway dealers are uniform in refusing to discount their instruments anywhere near the typical 10%-30% (or more) off the SMP.

The whole “buying an expensive piano as an investment” is a terribly dangerous misleading and deceptive line but to some folks out there it has immediate appeal. I, as a working stiff, can have money taken from my paycheck and put into a 401k, where I really don’t understand the stock market and I’m clueless why the balance has wild swings, or I can plunk cash down on a brand new Steinway grand piano, or a collector car, or a 1940 German Luger pistol, or a big diamond engagement ring (jewelry sales folk still give this line to hopeful engaged couples) and get a better return on my money when I suddenly need cash. Which is more attractive, a beautiful piano I can play now or stock certificates or my online balance sheet.
The folks mentioned in the rather lurid article neglected to do the one thing that keeps people and their money on track, research! They didn’t ask independent professionals. But I do understand. My God, if buying a new Steinway was really better than the stock market, I’d have a new Steinway D with the Spirio system sitting in my living room now. But again, an acoustic piano of any brand is only an investment in my musical enjoyment.☹️

The prices for used Steinway's seems to be more closely tied to the condition of the instrument and quality of the rebuild along with age.of the instrument. To me, this seems to fall in the 70-80% depreciation range for later model Steinway's.

I think a part of the reason that some of the individuals in these articles saw 50% depreciation is the fact that they were just needing to unload their pianos. Trade-in value would be slightly higher when purchasing another instrument of higher value. But in these cases, they were trying to sell the pianos themselves on the 2nd hand market or via consignment with a dealer. I had a discussion with a local dealer about my S&S B, the same one I purchased it from, about a consignment deal should I ever need/want to -- not that I do. He indicated that would be something like a 60% (mine) / 40% (his) deal. I would get quite a bit less for them just to buy it back. Dealers have to think about how long a piano will set on the floor and what investment they will have in repairs and prep to resell.

Could one of the Steinway experts explain the Steinway finance layaway option to me (idle curiosity). Basically I make monthly payments for my new Steinway grand, which still sits at the dealer’s. I can come and play my Steinway anytime I want during business hours. After a large down payment and monthly finance and layaway payments I’m sent home with an Essex upright? Really??? How does it really work? Inquiring minds again.

Ditto! That's quite a scenario. I am a piano person -- I LOVE PIANOS! I sent Saturday playing about 20 different pianos @ a couple of showrooms Saturday, even though I have my very nice S&S B at home. I waited until I was 50 to be able to afford mine, and only b/c I could pay cash for a nice, but well used retired C&A piano from 1981. I just can't imagine myself getting onto that kind of a situation over anything in that price range -- much less a piano! It was a "crown jewel" piano if I recall correctly. That added $$$$ to the price.

" But again, an acoustic piano of any brand is only an investment in my musical enjoyment." Well said, j&j.

TD makes some good points above (as usual), especially to buy smart and have reasonable expectations when you're trying to sell.

I would respectfully suggest that going into purchase mode even considering resale value is all wrong. If you may need to sell the piano, the best way to hedge against potential future losses on a Steinway is to simply buy a good piano that costs much less, even less than you could "lose" on a Steinway. In that scenario, you could even give the other piano away, and still "lose" less.

Pianos are highly illiquid. If you "have to sell," you're going to take a bath. People who can sell them at retail prices are people who bought them for less and can sit on them a while, waiting for the "right" buyer (who, ironically, may very well be the person who should be considering a better value).

Also, dealers can "help" buyers with financing, although financing a Steinway is only a double-down of bad decisions since they don't appreciate in value, they depreciate, especially if you can't afford one anyway (and need to consider resale value).

For anyone who can truly afford a Steinway, have at it. But if a buyer is worried about the risks of depreciation and resale, then--given diminishing returns--the extra "value" is not worth the risk associated with the added cost.

I spent money on an engagement ring nearly thirty years ago, but if I were to "suddenly need cash," I'd have more luck in being able to sell my left leg than that ring.

Now that's interesting. Walk in there every day with a big stack of charts, and I'm guessing you might be offered free delivery.... ;-)

My husband would be anxiously reading the charts ,I would be playing my beautiful Steinways!

In the (long) meantime, while you are making all those payments, who else is banging away on your piano in the dealer's showroom?

That said, when I bought my Estonia 190, it sat on the dealer's showroom floor for seven months while I was still playing my Estonia 168 until the date of my out-of-country move. At that time the new 190 was shipped directly to my new address and my 168 was returned to the dealer as previously-agreed trade-in.

Regards,

I cannot think that would be good for anyones health except the dealers ?

Good point -- another reason to be there every day.... ;-)