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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: David B] #2813460
02/11/19 08:45 AM
02/11/19 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by David B
Originally Posted by Erard

Several months ago I measured the keystick length (up to the balance rail pin on a white key) of the N1 (which I owned) of my 2008 C3 acoustic grand and the Novus.

N1 -- 23 cm (9 inches)
C3 -- 25 cm (9.8 inches)
NV10 -- 26.2 cm (10.3 inches)


Besides the AvantGrand, I wonder if Yamaha makes any acoustic grands with keys that short?

I'll actually have the opportunity to play a N1 tomorrow. I have to travel for work and there just happens to be a large Yamaha dealer in the area. I called today and they have a N1 and N3X on display. I've never been so excited to travel for work before. smile

God Bless,
David


Yes, the GBs have shorter keysticks, and I've always felt the action in the AGs feels more like a GB1 or GB1K than any C I've played.

If they have an N3X and an N1, you can compare the actions for variability and wear from demo age, use the N3X to access tone, and the N1 to judge they form factor, finish and pedals. You can also determine if you really need the TRS vibrating keys feature and Ivorite keytop finish on the NW/N3 series.

Have fun and please report back!


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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2813461
02/11/19 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
Isn't the wood in the AG pine? I would think the real acoustics use something different.

Key sticks in acoustic pianos are often made of conifer wood, e.g. fir, pine or spruce. The discriminator in terms of quality is not the type of tree itself but the drying and wood seasoning process and the actual part/cut of the wood that was used.

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813476
02/11/19 09:16 AM
02/11/19 09:16 AM
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I thought there were additional considerations for strengthening the pin slots and contact points if softer woods were used (i.e., it DOES matter, and is often an issue of availability/cost)?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813477
02/11/19 09:16 AM
02/11/19 09:16 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
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Hmm, are you sure about fir? I always thought fir can't be used for anything besides paper and wooden pulp...


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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813479
02/11/19 09:25 AM
02/11/19 09:25 AM
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Here in Northern Europe fir is used in furniture making; it's considered a rather inexpensive material for this purpose.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28, Pianoteq 6.4 (Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813484
02/11/19 09:36 AM
02/11/19 09:36 AM
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The GX grand keysticks are made of spruce according to the Global website.


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Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813489
02/11/19 09:48 AM
02/11/19 09:48 AM
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There is no mention of what wood is used in the GL series.


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Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: TomLC] #2813495
02/11/19 09:56 AM
02/11/19 09:56 AM
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Guys I am about to make my move for the N1X, any objections?

Please say so now or remain in silence forever.

Last edited by Euler1707; 02/11/19 09:56 AM.
Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813512
02/11/19 10:48 AM
02/11/19 10:48 AM
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Go for it! And then let us know how Pianoteq sounds through the on-board speakers using the audio interface! smile

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Pete14] #2813520
02/11/19 11:14 AM
02/11/19 11:14 AM
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I am also curious about pianoteq. I love harpsichord sounds.

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Euler1707] #2813529
02/11/19 11:35 AM
02/11/19 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Euler1707
Guys I am about to make my move for the N1X, any objections?

Please say so now or remain in silence forever.

Yes.try NV10 before you will buy N1X smile

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813532
02/11/19 11:40 AM
02/11/19 11:40 AM
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If you go with the NV10, make sure to get a bottle of Krazy Glue on your way home (just in case).

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Euler1707] #2813646
02/11/19 03:52 PM
02/11/19 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Euler1707
Guys I am about to make my move for the N1X, any objections?

Please say so now or remain in silence forever.


N1X > Novus. Simple as that. (for me) laugh


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: CyberGene] #2813672
02/11/19 04:32 PM
02/11/19 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Hmm, are you sure about fir? I always thought fir can't be used for anything besides paper and wooden pulp...

Fir has plenty of uses (https://www.naturallywood.com/forest-products-species/softwood-species/douglas-fir). It basically depends on how the wood was processed.

A piano handbook says dried, lightweight and soft conifer wood, including fir and spruce wood, is often used. But there are likely several types of wood being used depending on the manufacturer. Yamaha says they use the same spruce used in the soundboard, for example. A quick web search returned this:
https://www.pianoemporium.com/wood-quality-and-types-used-in-piano-manufacturing/
The keys of the piano are sometimes made of fir. It is tough and resilient to heavy wear. Usually cut from a single piece of wood all 88 keys are seasoned further to allow moisture to escape and prevent warping....

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813703
02/11/19 05:18 PM
02/11/19 05:18 PM
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Hobart, Australia
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There have been no reported cases of key problems on the AG pianos the whole time I've been on PW. This is a company that has been making pianos for 100 years. There is no reason to be fearful or suspicious of the wood they used. They know how to make keys. Why not wait for actual problems to talk about?

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Erard] #2813728
02/11/19 06:03 PM
02/11/19 06:03 PM
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Harpuia Online content
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Regarding key pivot length myth:

I'm pretty interested in the key pivot length of AG and Novus but neither Yamaha nor Kawai had released data for their acoustic grands or the hybrid digitals. So I did some search on PW and in conclusion: Kawai makes longer keys than Yamaha in both acoustic grands and hybrid digitals! Kawai grand action even has much longer keys than Steinway grands!. Actually in a piano buyer's review (https://www.pianobuyer.com/Articles...w-KAWAI-GX-EVOLUTIONARY-OR-REVOLUTIONARY), the author talks about the key length of Kawai GX series is 1 inch longer than the older RX series. But, do we really needs to care about that? I don't think the pivot length matters a lot but in that piano buyer review, the author did find it a little bit easier for him to control certain phrases of a Haydn sonata, and note that the author is a piano professor in the university. So for the pros, longer keys do have noticeable differences.

I listed the length from key front to the pivot of several grand piano actions. The data is either from the official website or unofficial from forum members. I'm suspecting that Yamaha AG is using an action from C1 and Kawai Novus is using an action from GX1. But that's just my guess.

Yamaha AvantGrand N1/N2/N3(X) 9 ~ 9.5 inches [1]
Steinway Model S/M/O/A 9.5 inches [5]
Yamaha C3 9.75 inches [2]
Kawai Novus NV10 10.25 inches [3]
Kawai GX2 10.3 inches [4]
Steinway Model B 10.5 inches [6]
Yamaha C6 11.5 inches [2]
Steinway Model D 12.25 inches [7]

Sources:
1. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2711168/5.html Reply from bSharp(C)yclist measuring N2. There is another measurement done by Erard measuring N1 which is 9 inches. No pictures from either forum members so I regard AG's key pivot length from 9 to 9.5 inches.
2. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...%20Yamaha%20C6%20an%20unusual%20pi.html. User ChrisVenables attached a picture of the pivot length of C3 and C6.
3. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2711168/5.html User Gombessa measures the pivot length of NV10 as 10.25 inches with a picture attached.
4. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2712955. User danielp11 measures a GX2 and attached a picture.
5. https://www.steinway.com/pianos/steinway/grand/model-a. Steinway's key spec is the same through Model S to Model A. The total key length is 19'' and I remember from the technician forum that the pivot length of a grand piano key is just half of the total key length. So I think smaller Steinway grands have pivot length about 9.5 inches long.
6. https://www.steinway.com/pianos/steinway/grand/model-b Same as smaller Steinway grands
7. https://www.steinway.com/pianos/steinway/grand/model-d Obviously a concert grand length.

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Harpuia] #2813742
02/11/19 06:20 PM
02/11/19 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia

Yamaha AvantGrand N1/N2/N3(X) 9 ~ 9.5 inches [1]
Steinway Model S/M/O/A 9.5 inches [5]
Yamaha C3 9.75 inches [2]
Kawai Novus NV10 10.25 inches [3]
Kawai GX2 10.3 inches [4]
Steinway Model B 10.5 inches [6]
Yamaha C6 11.5 inches [2]
Steinway Model D 12.25 inches [7]


I was starting to record the same data you have here (including for the non-hybrid actions), but I'm just going to save your post for future reference smile


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50 || Kawai NV-10, MP11
Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Gombessa] #2813755
02/11/19 06:48 PM
02/11/19 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Harpuia

Yamaha AvantGrand N1/N2/N3(X) 9 ~ 9.5 inches [1]
Steinway Model S/M/O/A 9.5 inches [5]
Yamaha C3 9.75 inches [2]
Kawai Novus NV10 10.25 inches [3]
Kawai GX2 10.3 inches [4]
Steinway Model B 10.5 inches [6]
Yamaha C6 11.5 inches [2]
Steinway Model D 12.25 inches [7]


I was starting to record the same data you have here (including for the non-hybrid actions), but I'm just going to save your post for future reference smile


I hope we could have a database for that, just like the action/price of the DPs.

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2813763
02/11/19 06:55 PM
02/11/19 06:55 PM
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Steinway also has data for their uprights (1098/K52) but I don't think the pivot length of the upright is exactly half of the whole key length so I didn't include them.

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Harpuia] #2813779
02/11/19 07:33 PM
02/11/19 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Harpuia
Kawai Novus NV10 10.25 inches [3]
Kawai GX2 10.3 inches [4]
...
3. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2711168/5.html User Gombessa measures the pivot length of NV10 as 10.25 inches with a picture attached.
4. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...ai-novus-nv10-hands-on.html#Post2712955. User danielp11 measures a GX2 and attached a picture.

This difference must be a precision vs accuracy issue. NV10 uses the same action as the GX-2, the Millennium III.


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