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Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
GWILLY #2812981 02/10/19 03:31 AM
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I own over 60 sampled pianos, and whilst I find a use for most of them in the various tracks I compose & produce, many of them are more suited to working in a DAW for a particular character I need, rather than a piano I'd use for live rehearsal/gigging. The most success I've had with sampled pianos for live rehearsal/gigging accompanying a singer/guitarist and in a band setting are the following (in no particular order):

1. Acoustic Samples Kawai EX pro (runs in the free UVI player)
2. Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano (modern Hamburg Steinway B - Full Kontakt required)
3. Wholesounds 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand (runs in the free UVI player)
4. EzKeys Vintage Upright (1930's Swedish upright piano) & Studio Grand (modern Hamburg Steinway B)

These are all very stable on a fairly modest system (5 year old 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7 Mac Book Pro with 16GB ram), consistent under the fingers, offer enough tweak-ability, and give me enough variation in tone & character to fit the song's needs.

I'm a big fan of Pianoteq - the benchmark in my opinion for playability, pedalling & touch - but I find it doesn't 'bite' enough in a live setting for my needs. I have made a number of recordings with it though (in particular with the Steinway B, Ant. Petrof & Steingraeber models) than were a joy to play and I was pleased with the final results. I've been on the beta team for 4 of their models - you can hear a demo of mine with the recent Ant Petrof model called 'Petrof Groove' on their website.


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Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
MooganDavid #2813051 02/10/19 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by MooganDavid
JazzBow but how can you adjust your playing to compensate for a note that's either too bright or too loud? If you do use the global eq you might help an individual note but then it might screw up others that were fine so I think I know what wdco means that it really wouldn't be that much more trouble for the developer to include individual note editing even if some users like me don't want to get that involved because it does take a lot of work. MooganDavid


For me it's like a psychological thing. I hear a bad note and as long as it's not truly awful my brain records it and I adjust my touch automatically. It's hard to explain. Real pianos have bad notes as well. Same thing. I'd rather spend my time playing than tweaking things. If something in the program is truly awful I'll file a bug report, but chances are many have done so prior to me. And if something really, really bothers me, like for example Acoustics Samples C7 where south of middle C sounds and plays "mushy" to me, I move on to something else.

Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
Craig Richards #2813192 02/10/19 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Richards
I own over 60 sampled pianos, and whilst I find a use for most of them in the various tracks I compose & produce, many of them are more suited to working in a DAW for a particular character I need, rather than a piano I'd use for live rehearsal/gigging. The most success I've had with sampled pianos for live rehearsal/gigging accompanying a singer/guitarist and in a band setting are the following (in no particular order):

1. Acoustic Samples Kawai EX pro (runs in the free UVI player)
2. Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano (modern Hamburg Steinway B - Full Kontakt required)
3. Wholesounds 1954 Baldwin Parlor Grand (runs in the free UVI player)
4. EzKeys Vintage Upright (1930's Swedish upright piano) & Studio Grand (modern Hamburg Steinway B)

These are all very stable on a fairly modest system (5 year old 2.5 GHz Intel Core i7 Mac Book Pro with 16GB ram), consistent under the fingers, offer enough tweak-ability, and give me enough variation in tone & character to fit the song's needs.

I'm a big fan of Pianoteq - the benchmark in my opinion for playability, pedalling & touch - but I find it doesn't 'bite' enough in a live setting for my needs. I have made a number of recordings with it though (in particular with the Steinway B, Ant. Petrof & Steingraeber models) than were a joy to play and I was pleased with the final results. I've been on the beta team for 4 of their models - you can hear a demo of mine with the recent Ant Petrof model called 'Petrof Groove' on their website.


60 Piano VSTi, well you have me topped me smile Hahahha! I'm not including all the KU11 pianos in my list though, but I don't think even adding them in comes close to 60 !!

I've beta tested for a couple of companies as well and my performances are out there. I won't mention them here because it's an NDA violation at least for me, however I'll just say I think we might have crossed paths!!

Small world.
Peace.

Last edited by JazzBow; 02/10/19 05:28 PM.
Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
GWILLY #2813193 02/10/19 05:33 PM
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Craig Richards, that was an interesting list. I've often wondered how the WholeSounds 1954 Baldwin would turn out to be in real practice, and have found it very appealing, judging from (unreliable)? demos.

Looks like it has flown under the radar of most piano VSTs users, as have the other ones in your list, except maybe the Kawai Ex Pro, which is quite well known, and praised by some.

Like you, and almost everyone, I like the playability of Pianoteq, but can't warm up to it's sound character. Maybe that would change if I played nothing else than the Pianoteq models, for a month or so.


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Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
GWILLY #2813198 02/10/19 05:43 PM
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60 sampled pianos ! I was thinking I had a lot of them... however, my VST GAS has stopped when my 1TB SSD was full. I can’t add a second SSD, then I would have to change it for a 2 TB, which would make the next sampled piano quite expensive and its installation quite long.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
GWILLY #2813220 02/10/19 06:19 PM
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I have forget to say that my most used are perhaps Garritan CFX and VSL Vienna Imperial. Bechstein Digital Grand would be perhaps more used with a more powerful PC (it is quite CPU hungry and I had to limit its polyphony).

Some quite appreciated are Galaxy Vintage D, Ivory American Concert Grand.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
JazzBow #2813333 02/11/19 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JazzBow
60 Piano VSTi, well you have me topped me smile Hahahha! I'm not including all the KU11 pianos in my list though, but I don't think even adding them in comes close to 60 !!

I've beta tested for a couple of companies as well and my performances are out there. I won't mention them here because it's an NDA violation at least for me, however I'll just say I think we might have crossed paths!!

Small world.
Peace.


Yes, I tallied the list a few months ago and was quite shocked. The collection goes back almost 18 years though, when I first bought the PMI Bosendorfer 290E sample library for Logic EXS24, then some early East West pianos (Steinway B) and then the first release of Synthogy's Ivory Grands and Modartt's Pianoteq. I've collected more and more over the years as new and interesting products were released, and as the technology/sampling quality improved, so some of the earlier sampled pianos I bought have been 'retired'. Piano is a fascination for me, and I play something on either a keyboard or acoustic piano almost everyday - feels foreign for me not to.


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Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
TheodorN #2813336 02/11/19 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by TheodorN
Craig Richards, that was an interesting list. I've often wondered how the WholeSounds 1954 Baldwin would turn out to be in real practice, and have found it very appealing, judging from (unreliable)? demos.

Looks like it has flown under the radar of most piano VSTs users, as have the other ones in your list, except maybe the Kawai Ex Pro, which is quite well known, and praised by some.

Like you, and almost everyone, I like the playability of Pianoteq, but can't warm up to it's sound character. Maybe that would change if I played nothing else than the Pianoteq models, for a month or so.


The WholeSounds 1954 Baldwin is well worth having. A very resonant and realistic tone, and the playability - while not on the level of Ivory American D or the Garritan Abbey Road Yamaha CFX - is still very good. The fact it runs very efficiently in the free UVI player is a bonus. The piano sampled is the personal piano of the developer Dan McKinney, so he know's it intimately. Dan is also in the process of creating another sampled piano from a larger 6'3" Baldwin Grand, situated in a chapel, and manufactured in the late 80's.

I prefer the Kawai Ex Pro to both the VI Labs TrueKeys German & Ravenscroft 275 (all of which were created by the developer Lance Herring) even though the Kawai Ex Pro is quite basic spec-wise compared to the latter pianos. I just prefer it's fuller tone more, and how it feels with the hammer attacks and releases. When I want a cleaner/sharper sounding piano, I turn to the TrueKeys Italian Fazioli 308, which I prefer to the Ravenscroft 275, for a modern, cutting piano tone.

Pianoteq is great for developing good technique when away from a well tuned, voiced & regulated acoustic piano, and is so involving to play for me that I can get past the slight artificial quality of the tone. Modartt have taken huge leaps in realism of tone since Pianoteq V.5, especially with the latter models like the Steingreaber and Ant Petrof, and the models respond really well to external processing (EQ, Reverb & Compression). Also if you haven't already, check out the 1920's Pleyel they modelled a while back. It's part of a free collection available to download as a Pianoteq license owner, and it has a charming vintage tone with a less than perfect character I really like.

Last edited by Craig Richards; 02/11/19 12:31 AM.

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Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
GWILLY #2813419 02/11/19 07:11 AM
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Thank you all for your responses. They were both helpful, and interesting! Just an update. So I have been experimenting with Pianoteq more. I am still on a trial version - but have been recently sending the data stream directly (via USB) into the Roland RD2000 -which has 24/192 conversion built in. I didn't realize this was an option, when I first started this thread, but now feel like I've got Pianoteq dialed in really nicely. I also tried something else that may or may not be of interest to members. In my setup, it makes an improvement to the sound.

I mentioned, I also run a set of Kef LS50 Wireless speakers. What I didn't mention is that I also use an IFI Micro iUSB 3.0 Power Cleaner/Reclocker, and with a very good quality USB cable, an Audioquest Coffee (perfect name for me btw!) for connection to the speakers. It really improves the sound, and it's not subtle on the LS50w.

So for the last hour I decided to try that USB chain, into the RD2000! I am monitoring things with Grado Prestige 325is cans. What can I say!?! To my ears, the sound is much improved! smile Things are more delicate (and they already sounded great) and musical!


I am not sure if these products, which are targeted more at audiophiles, have been discussed - so forgive me if my introducing them on this thread is redundant. I am also not sure for those using high end pro Dacs, that they work as well as in this example. But I will just say I am very happy overall with my piano sound! Switching back and forth between the RD Built in sounds and the PT (spend most of my time on Model B, Bechstein Sweet, and Bluethner) really is no contest. The Roland will just be a backup, or part of big mixed soundscapes. But the RD2000 is a great master slab! Really could not be happier smile

Re: RD2000 and which software instruments?
Craig Richards #2813499 02/11/19 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Richards
Originally Posted by JazzBow
60 Piano VSTi, well you have me topped me smile Hahahha! I'm not including all the KU11 pianos in my list though, but I don't think even adding them in comes close to 60 !!

I've beta tested for a couple of companies as well and my performances are out there. I won't mention them here because it's an NDA violation at least for me, however I'll just say I think we might have crossed paths!!

Small world.
Peace.


Yes, I tallied the list a few months ago and was quite shocked. The collection goes back almost 18 years though, when I first bought the PMI Bosendorfer 290E sample library for Logic EXS24, then some early East West pianos (Steinway B) and then the first release of Synthogy's Ivory Grands and Modartt's Pianoteq. I've collected more and more over the years as new and interesting products were released, and as the technology/sampling quality improved, so some of the earlier sampled pianos I bought have been 'retired'. Piano is a fascination for me, and I play something on either a keyboard or acoustic piano almost everyday - feels foreign for me not to.


That is so cool !!

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