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Beginner indeed. #2812905
02/09/19 10:54 PM
02/09/19 10:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
SparkyLB Offline OP
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SparkyLB  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
Hello all. I have an elementary question that I've googled to no avail, and is most certainly a simple answer--just one I don't know.

I'm looking at the intro to The Entertainer by Joplin. I notice in the 3rd bar there are notes that are 3 ledger lines below the treble stave. I'm not ashamed to say, I've been playing for 5 weeks now, happy with my progress, but I'm scratching my head over this one. A0 is MANY ledger lines below the bass clef, but that's to be expected. What "treble" or octave does one find a note "on" the third ledger line down from the treble clef? (between the two staves on the grand clef.)

Thanks so much.
Larry.


He who's not busy being born is busy dying.
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Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2812907
02/09/19 10:57 PM
02/09/19 10:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,824
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,824
Originally Posted by SparkyLB
Hello all. I have an elementary question that I've googled to no avail, and is most certainly a simple answer--just one I don't know.

I'm looking at the intro to The Entertainer by Joplin. I notice in the 3rd bar there are notes that are 3 ledger lines below the treble stave. I'm not ashamed to say, I've been playing for 5 weeks now, happy with my progress, but I'm scratching my head over this one. A0 is MANY ledger lines below the bass clef, but that's to be expected. What "treble" or octave does one find a note "on" the third ledger line down from the treble clef? (between the two staves on the grand clef.)

Thanks so much.
Larry.

3 ledger lines below treble clef is an F. This is the exact same F note/key which is on the 2nd line down from the top (4th from bottom) on the bass clef. No difference except for musical notation reasons, it's being represented on the treble clef.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2812934
02/10/19 12:20 AM
02/10/19 12:20 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,351
Florida
cmb13 Offline
Silver Level
cmb13  Offline
Silver Level

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,351
Florida
See that, Lt, see one, do one, teach one! My job is done here.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Chopin 28:15
Tchaikovsky Seasons: October

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2812946
02/10/19 01:03 AM
02/10/19 01:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 840
Upstate SC
dobro Offline
500 Post Club Member
dobro  Offline
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Posts: 840
Upstate SC
Hey larry, it helps to spend some time counting them down or up and getting familiar with them. Theres always more. Enjoy.


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Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2812949
02/10/19 01:09 AM
02/10/19 01:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,701
Canada
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
keystring  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,701
Canada
A really cool trick for ledger lines. If it 's below, and you know which piano key/note the bottom line is, skip two piano keys for each ledger line. For the treble clef, since your lowest ledger line note is E, skip two 3X and you get to that F. Try to fuse these relationships together and you start creating a map in one step instead of two. wink

Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2812966
02/10/19 02:40 AM
02/10/19 02:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 431
Sweden
Animisha Online content
Full Member
Animisha  Online Content
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 431
Sweden
You could also print this picture and keep it close to the piano.

[Linked Image]

BTW Five weeks, and the Entertainer? That is very fast. But how about technique.... ?


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: Animisha] #2813014
02/10/19 08:19 AM
02/10/19 08:19 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
SparkyLB Offline OP
Full Member
SparkyLB  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
It was a random pick for "the piece" I'm using to get reading music again. I'm in my 50s, and played clarinet and bass clarinet in 3-5th grade. I forgot how to read music, so I'm using Chopin to reteach me. FWIW, I'm only concentrating on the intro, re-learning to read music, and hand independence. The intro only (1st 4 bars) lends itself well to this endeavor.

Short answer to your question, my technique probably needs work. smile

Last edited by SparkyLB; 02/10/19 08:20 AM.

He who's not busy being born is busy dying.
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: Animisha] #2813017
02/10/19 08:26 AM
02/10/19 08:26 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,351
Florida
cmb13 Offline
Silver Level
cmb13  Offline
Silver Level

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,351
Florida
Originally Posted by Animisha
You could also print this picture and keep it close to the piano.

[Linked Image]

BTW Five weeks, and the Entertainer? That is very fast. But how about technique.... ?


Nice find!


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Chopin 28:15
Tchaikovsky Seasons: October

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2813023
02/10/19 09:08 AM
02/10/19 09:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 431
Sweden
Animisha Online content
Full Member
Animisha  Online Content
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 431
Sweden
Originally Posted by SparkyLB
Short answer to your question, my technique probably needs work. smile

Good! I am happy you are aware of this. I wasn't when I started out, and oh do I regret it... eek


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: cmb13] #2813043
02/10/19 10:49 AM
02/10/19 10:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,068
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
2000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,068
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by Animisha
You could also print this picture and keep it close to the piano.

[Linked Image]

BTW Five weeks, and the Entertainer? That is very fast. But how about technique.... ?


Nice find!


I have done this as well. I printed them out, laminated them, and referred to them often.


[Linked Image]
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2813095
02/10/19 01:37 PM
02/10/19 01:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
SparkyLB Offline OP
Full Member
SparkyLB  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
Thanks for tolerating the noob questions; but I assume the "gbdfa and aceg in the "inside" the bass clef set, and the "egbdf and "face" "inside" the treble is not included because this is an illustration of ledger line notes only, correct?

BTW, thank you SO MUCH for this. I'm laminating it and going to do A Clockwork Orange with my eyelids until I can recite this in my sleep.

Last edited by SparkyLB; 02/10/19 01:38 PM.

He who's not busy being born is busy dying.
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2813102
02/10/19 02:04 PM
02/10/19 02:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,824
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,824
Originally Posted by SparkyLB
I'm laminating it and going to do A Clockwork Orange with my eyelids until I can recite this in my sleep.

cmb13, I want you to take note that the one who just brought up A Clockwork Orange this time ^^^^ was ^^^^ not ^^^^ me ^^^^!


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2813123
02/10/19 03:28 PM
02/10/19 03:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 431
Sweden
Animisha Online content
Full Member
Animisha  Online Content
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 431
Sweden
Originally Posted by SparkyLB
Thanks for tolerating the noob questions; but I assume the "gbdfa and aceg in the "inside" the bass clef set, and the "egbdf and "face" "inside" the treble is not included because this is an illustration of ledger line notes only, correct?

Yes, I guess so Sparky. From your first post I understood that you didn't have problems with those notes, so why clutter the picture with them?

Originally Posted by SparkyLB
BTW, thank you SO MUCH for this. I'm laminating it and going to do A Clockwork Orange with my eyelids until I can recite this in my sleep.

You're welcome! smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2813187
02/10/19 06:18 PM
02/10/19 06:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
SparkyLB Offline OP
Full Member
SparkyLB  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
That's correct, I'm pretty fluent with those notes, just didn't consider that picture might have been made to suit me. Now I understand. Awfully kind of you. Thanks!


He who's not busy being born is busy dying.
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: SparkyLB] #2813335
02/11/19 01:27 AM
02/11/19 01:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 431
Sweden
Animisha Online content
Full Member
Animisha  Online Content
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 431
Sweden
Originally Posted by SparkyLB
That's correct, I'm pretty fluent with those notes, just didn't consider that picture might have been made to suit me. Now I understand. Awfully kind of you. Thanks!

I didn't make the picture, I just found it for you! smile


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Beginner indeed. [Re: Animisha] #2813662
02/11/19 05:19 PM
02/11/19 05:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
SparkyLB Offline OP
Full Member
SparkyLB  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 28
Florida, USA
Thank you for that. smile


He who's not busy being born is busy dying.

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