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Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: SilvieC] #2806497
01/25/19 10:31 AM
01/25/19 10:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 69
Ontario, Canada
SilentQ Online content
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SylvieC, all I can suggest is that you play publicly as much as you can, but pick something easy.

My first attempt was "Song of Twilight". It was so bad, even with no one around, on a side street. I just kept going. The next day I played and someone walking by stopped and listened. I started to shake, but just went into a hyper-focused state. I nailed it and was complimented. Score!

Once I was comfortable there, I moved to a piano on the main street. THAT was heck... but I just kept going. It is the only way.

Play and play and play. Anywhere and everywhere.


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Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: outo] #2806645
01/25/19 04:02 PM
01/25/19 04:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 12
Scotland
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SilvieC Offline OP
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Scotland
Yes, outo, I completely get what you are saying about starting to feel anxious when things are going well! I had this happening to me a few times as well. It feels like “it’s too good to be true!!!” 😅


Silvie
Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: SilentQ] #2806649
01/25/19 04:15 PM
01/25/19 04:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 12
Scotland
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SilvieC Offline OP
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I will do, SilentQ! I will just keep on playing at every opportunity and well done to you for playing in public - you are brave. 🙂👍🏻


Thank you for sharing your childhood experience, elenmirie. It’s awful when things like this happen.
I will let you know how I am getting on with your book! ☺️


Silvie
Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: SilvieC] #2806875
01/26/19 10:21 AM
01/26/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 108
Portland, Oregon, USA
Emery Wang Offline
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Hi Silvie, thanks for starting this thread, it is great to know others have the same issues I do. When I play for my teacher I often get the sweats, which is so embarrassing. This seems to happen in small intimate groups as well. When I play for a larger group, say at a piano meetup, sweating doesn't usually happen. I simply get nervous and sometimes forget parts I never miss when practicing at home.

It's funny you mentioned hypnotherapy. I tried it too, and it did nothing. I think the best advice for me is to just play as much as possible in public, and also to try to tune out everything else when I do. If it's true that our brains don't really multitask well, then really concentrating on the music should leave less bandwidth for it to spend on feeling nervous.

One more thing: I'm always really happy to listen to other pianists who get nervous and mess up because of their nerves. I can tell from the difficulty of the pieces they're playing that they are good, but the nerves are just getting the better of them. That does not make me critical of the pianist. Instead, it gives me a greater connection with the pianist, and I feel relieved that I'm not alone. So when you're playing in front of other pianists at least, perhaps remember that. Other nervous piano players love that you get nervous yet play anyway--that helps us know we're not alone, and we're all in this fight together!


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Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: Emery Wang] #2808731
01/30/19 06:34 PM
01/30/19 06:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 12
Scotland
S
SilvieC Offline OP
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Dear, Emery Wang, thank you for your post and your reassuring advice! It has helped me already immensely, knowing that so many fellow pianists are experiencing similar problems... I shall not give up - I love playing the piano too much anyway!

I also struggle with the sweating issue a lot. It’s so embarrassing and unpleasant! When performing I always have to make sure to wear something “sweat-proof” and I do not like plastic or synthetic piano benches. My first piano teacher had one and I was mortified for leaving sweat patches behind... (perhaps too much information?! 😅)


Silvie
Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: Emery Wang] #2809358
02/01/19 09:50 AM
02/01/19 09:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,285
Virginia, USA
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TimR Offline
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Originally Posted by Emery Wang

One more thing: I'm always really happy to listen to other pianists who get nervous and mess up because of their nerves. I can tell from the difficulty of the pieces they're playing that they are good, but the nerves are just getting the better of them. That does not make me critical of the pianist


I see your point but I have a slightly different reaction to this.

I think they erred by choosing too difficult a piece. If you're going to play in public, play a piece you can present well. I can understand if nerves still get in the way a bit, but at least you didn't set yourself up for failure. The audience would rather hear an easy piece played fluently than a difficult one mangled, and that's what I hear fairly often.


gotta go practice
Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: SilvieC] #2809658
02/01/19 09:58 PM
02/01/19 09:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
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Hi Silvie, it might help to practice playing around your teacher when your teacher isn’t at all focused on you. Like having your teacher be in another room doing something else or just away from the piano, but not paying attention to you. And then you just play whatever or however you want. and do that until you are more relaxed playing. It might take awhile and you may have to try it several times. Eventually you could teach your body to be relaxed in the setting of your lessons. Because right now you are primed for anxiety every time you go for a lesson.

Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: malkin] #2811198
02/05/19 11:44 PM
02/05/19 11:44 PM
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North Vancouver
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Originally Posted by malkin
Also not a piano teacher, also anxious during lessons and all the rest of the time too.
I've done specific work with my teacher on listening and following instructions and not freaking out, which has helped at least at lessons. Still, I sometimes feel like I've never seen that particular pattern of lines and dots on paper or black and white things layed out under those fingers which I don't recognize or seem to control.

Perhaps you only think you know the piece .

Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: Lady Bird] #2811265
02/06/19 07:58 AM
02/06/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,008
Canada
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by malkin

I've done specific work with my teacher on listening and following instructions and not freaking out, which has helped at least at lessons. Still, I sometimes feel like I've never seen that particular pattern of lines and dots on paper or black and white things layed out under those fingers which I don't recognize or seem to control.

Perhaps you only think you know the piece .


I have an immediate question how you perceive "know". Sometimes people mean "memorized". If a student reads music then is "knowing" a factor? Can you explain?

Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: Lady Bird] #2811372
02/06/19 12:29 PM
02/06/19 12:29 PM
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South Florida
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by malkin
Also not a piano teacher, also anxious during lessons and all the rest of the time too.
I've done specific work with my teacher on listening and following instructions and not freaking out, which has helped at least at lessons. Still, I sometimes feel like I've never seen that particular pattern of lines and dots on paper or black and white things layed out under those fingers which I don't recognize or seem to control.

Perhaps you only think you know the piece .

And perhaps you only think you know what you are talking about here.

Try writing something that is less cryptic. That one liner could mean anything in the universe and is a useful as giving someone a fortune cookie for help.


Piano Teacher
Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: keystring] #2811414
02/06/19 01:46 PM
02/06/19 01:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,133
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by malkin

I've done specific work with my teacher on listening and following instructions and not freaking out, which has helped at least at lessons. Still, I sometimes feel like I've never seen that particular pattern of lines and dots on paper or black and white things layed out under those fingers which I don't recognize or seem to control.

Perhaps you only think you know the piece .


I have an immediate question how you perceive "know". Sometimes people mean "memorized". If a student reads music then is "knowing" a factor? Can you explain?

I think the operative word in that sentence is "think," i.e., you don't really know the piece well enough, at least not as well as you THINK you do.

Either way, it doesn't really help the situation of freaking out.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: AZNpiano] #2811435
02/06/19 02:49 PM
02/06/19 02:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,008
Canada
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Since you are responding to my question to the other person: smile
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
I think the operative word in that sentence is "think," i.e., you don't really know the piece well enough, at least not as well as you THINK you do.


How would "knowing" a piece have any bearing on playing music from a score? When somebody hands me a sheet of paper, I don't have to "know" the contents beforehand in order to be able to read what's on that page. Conversely, if "knowing" the music is considered necessary for reading it, then are we actually considering weak reading skills where memorization is necessary? If the music is advanced, then I might play with hesitations if I haven't practised it well enough, because of technical changes ----- but this would not make me totally lost with the music, if I'm reading it.

Malkin referred to notes on the page. That's reading. Therefore "knowing" wouldn't come into it.

Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: Lady Bird] #2811442
02/06/19 03:05 PM
02/06/19 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Perhaps you only think you know the piece .

Lady Bird, it was too late in the day to write much yesterday. A couple of things bother me.

The first thing is that the student was trying to describe a problem where nerves affect the ability to play. It was about nerves, dealing with nerves, and that effect. If I came to a teacher with a defined problem, I'd be uncomfortable if I felt it was just being dismissed.

In this instant the suggestion of "knowing" the piece being the actual problem puzzled me ---- which is why I asked if by knowing you meant memorized or something else ---- because we're talking about recognizing notes on the page. I didn't see the relationship.

It does indeed happen that one practises in an ineffective way: say counting, and in the lesson you can't count, because you've been fooling yourself at home and imagined you were doing what you actually didn't achieve. For example your mouth can count while your mind is dwelling on a pizza recipe. That kind of thing. Your suggestion is not nonsensical in those kinds of contexts, which are also not uncommon.

But nerves are also a factor. I can think of two instances personally. One was when a piece of paper I received had contents that scared me so much that I lost the ability to read the words. "swim in front of your eyes" is an expression. I also had some bad prior experiences with lessons, and the first time I played for my new teacher back then, I blanked out - like you withdraw from where you are, you can't draw on the simplest knowledge because it has all vanished. That teacher knew my history and worked with me so that within 5 minutes I was present and feeling safe. Had he assumed that I "didn't know" my notes or similar, this would have increased my anxiety for several reasons.

Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: SilvieC] #2811475
02/06/19 04:06 PM
02/06/19 04:06 PM
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South Florida
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Gary D. Offline
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This is all insane.

Malkin wrote this Jan. 21st, 15 days ago

Quote
Also not a piano teacher, also anxious during lessons and all the rest of the time too.
I've done specific work with my teacher on listening and following instructions and not freaking out, which has helped at least at lessons. Still, I sometimes feel like I've never seen that particular pattern of lines and dots on paper or black and white things layed out under those fingers which I don't recognize or seem to control.

Why don't ALL of you ask what this means before assuming you know? My assumption, perhaps wrong, is that this was about the feeling of not being familiar with what you have practiced. If so, it has happened to me thousands of times. I play something I think I know, for someone else, or for a recording, and suddenly things I think I have solid are wrong. I end up playing the wrong notes, with the wrong fingers, and immediately wonder why it happened. I then have to look at the passage in question and find out why it happened.

The number one problem in this forum is that there is no back arrow to posts quoted. In other forums I can click on the post quoted and immediately see where it was written, and when, and the context in which it was written.

There are also no alerts as to when people have answered posts we write. I am always in the dark in this site. I don't have time or the energy to try to follow the trail in email with alerts. They get lost there.


Piano Teacher
Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: keystring] #2811493
02/06/19 04:42 PM
02/06/19 04:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
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Originally Posted by keystring
How would "knowing" a piece have any bearing on playing music from a score? When somebody hands me a sheet of paper, I don't have to "know" the contents beforehand in order to be able to read what's on that page.


That may be because you're an advanced player. Earlier in the learning process it's not that easy. For me, it's a continuous gradual reduction in reliance on the paper.

In the beginning, sight reading, I'm pretty much useless even with the paper. With practice, I get to where I can play with the score. With more practice, I pay less attention to the score. After a while, there are only a few places here and there where I need to look. Finally, I get to where I can play without the paper. So, it's a gradual transfer from page to memory.... At least for me.


-- J.S.

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Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: JohnSprung] #2811506
02/06/19 05:05 PM
02/06/19 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by keystring
How would "knowing" a piece have any bearing on playing music from a score? When somebody hands me a sheet of paper, I don't have to "know" the contents beforehand in order to be able to read what's on that page.


That may be because you're an advanced player. Earlier in the learning process it's not that easy. For me, it's a continuous gradual reduction in reliance on the paper.


I am not an advanced player. I'm a person who, as a child, was given a keyboard, a book for adult self learners (I was 8!) and expected have at it. What developed is a jigsaw puzzle of mismatched pieces from several jigsaws. I then had no instrument for decades. That is where I am.

One thing I had to get was learning how to read. Under good instruction I also learned what reading, for piano, is. If you know that the note below the treble clef is found between the two black keys in front of you (i.e. D) then if that D is in your score, you can find it on the piano. You don't need to "know" your music to find that D. If a student, with the music in front of her, draws a blank, the cause cannot be "not knowing the music". If the music hasn't been practised well, then there may be hesitations and it may take forever, but those notes will be found and played.

In this same scenario, it is also possible that a person has some weaknesses in reading. (not this person - *a* person in general) wink Or .... that the student has a case of nerves and is blanking out, acting like a giant eraser. smile

I did not want to postulate anything - and still don't - because as Gary pointed out, we haven't asked questions to find out more. But when a one-line solution was proposed, I decided to respond. I think it's too early for suggestions.

Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: JohnSprung] #2811520
02/06/19 05:27 PM
02/06/19 05:27 PM
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Seguing for a moment a bit OT in my conversation with John. wink

Expanding on what I wrote here:
Originally Posted by me
In this same scenario, it is also possible that a person has some weaknesses in reading.

This actually happened to me. The music I had as a child was a bunch of sonatinas passed on from a relative. A grade 2 teacher had given us movable Do solfege, which is diatonic in nature, just like Clementi sonatinas. I developed my own form of "reading". I found the Tonic as "Do after the last sharp: the last flat is Fa". Once I found Do (the minor was La for me) then I sang my way along the ups and downs of notes along an invisible scale like Middle Age monks. I felt my way along for those sounds on the piano. If my Tonic was G, and I played F for Ti, it sounded wrong so it became F#. I picked up patterns like Clementi's typical Alberti bass. If you've played one Clementi sonata, you can predict how the bass will go without even looking at it (almost). I picked up that music has "a new Do" in the middle (modulates to the Dominant) so part of my "reading" was anticipating broad patterns. Like Uncle Charlie always tells the same stories, and you know what he's going to say. After I lost the piano, I still had singing and played the recorder. I got a guitar and did the same thing. I still don't know the string names of a guitar.

The shock came when I got a piano again, played from my old book .... and then my son brought home a piano accompaniment thinking we could play together, and I couldn't read it!! The reason is that this music was not written along the patterns of a Clementi or Mozart or Kuhlau sonatina. It did not have these predictable patterns. This is when I discovered I didn't actually know how to read. Or - I had some sides of reading, but was missing the main thing. I was missing the most essential components. My example of that D gets at an essence.

Some ways that books are organized can set up students for similar situations as mine, if not the same. If music stays in C position forever; stays diatonic; has predictable patterns. If you get into the habit of memorizing your music early and think you are reading while staring at the page. It is true, what Lady Bird said, that you may not know what you think you know. But it may be something else, other than knowing the music. smile

Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: SilvieC] #2811525
02/06/19 05:37 PM
02/06/19 05:37 PM
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Another thought is that things can go two ways. While anxiety can wipe out skills you have, lack of skills can also create anxiety - gaining skills can create confidence. When you know what to do, and can do it, this supports you. For me the answer seems to lie in simple, ordinary things which are also reachable. If I can aim to play a single note - that D - touch, play, release - I can do that. Not a whole piece with dynamics and whatnot: that note, that piano key. If later that D is always there for me; I've experienced success rather than frequent floundering, this builds confidence, which in turn mitigates wanting to run away and shut things out.

I also found this when tutoring students with school difficulties, especially when underlying things were holding them back. When they started experiencing being capable in things they could reach, there was a different air about them which was lovely to see.

Apologies for waffling on today. smile

Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: Gary D.] #2811527
02/06/19 05:47 PM
02/06/19 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary D.
This is all insane.


Thanks Gary D.!


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Re: Too nervous to play properly during lessons [Re: keystring] #2811552
02/06/19 06:39 PM
02/06/19 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Perhaps you only think you know the piece .

Lady Bird, it was too late in the day to write much yesterday. A couple of things bother me.

The first thing is that the student was trying to describe a problem where nerves affect the ability to play. It was about nerves, dealing with nerves, and that effect. If I came to a teacher with a defined problem, I'd be uncomfortable if I felt it was just being dismissed.

In this instant the suggestion of "knowing" the piece being the actual problem puzzled me ---- which is why I asked if by knowing you meant memorized or something else ---- because we're talking about recognizing notes on the page. I didn't see the relationship.

It does indeed happen that one practises in an ineffective way: say counting, and in the lesson you can't count, because you've been fooling yourself at home and imagined you were doing what you actually didn't achieve. For example your mouth can count while your mind is dwelling on a pizza recipe. That kind of thing. Your suggestion is not nonsensical in those kinds of contexts, which are also not uncommon.

But nerves are also a factor. I can think of two instances personally. One was when a piece of paper I received had contents that scared me so much that I lost the ability to read the words. "swim in front of your eyes" is an expression. I also had some bad prior experiences with lessons, and the first time I played for my new teacher back then, I blanked out - like you withdraw from where you are, you can't draw on the simplest knowledge because it has all vanished. That teacher knew my history and worked with me so that within 5 minutes I was present and feeling safe. Had he assumed that I "didn't know" my notes or similar, this would have increased my anxiety for several reasons.

It's amazing when you ask a simple question ,where there is smoke there is fire !!!. There are many levels of "knowing " when it comes to learning a piece . Surely I do not have to mention them here ??? The more the piece is practiced correctly from the beginning the more it will flow .If you are practicing the piece wrongly ,wrong fingering ,unknown difficult sections that have never been worked on hands separately correctly .Memorizing these sections correctly hands together. If your memory is not your undoing in learning everything wrongly .You will get to one of the many levels of knowing the piece .
THIS will be so much help when you get to your lesson
If you are still in so much awe of your teacher that you cannot play then a more approachable teacher may be what is needed .But just remember REALLY knowing the piece is not as easy as you think .Perhaps now I am less of a monster ,well perhaps. ?

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