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Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage #2809440
02/01/19 12:57 PM
02/01/19 12:57 PM
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Old Europe
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Chordo24 Offline OP
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The opportunity arose that I could aquire an UVI Ravenscroft 3-license for about the very same price as a Pianoteq Stage license. Pianoteq Stage would mean two instruments instead of just one (although I don`t know if I could choose these freely) instrument.

I`m new to this game with an MP 11 and lousy speakers.

Which would you recommend me to get?

Thanks

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Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809450
02/01/19 01:09 PM
02/01/19 01:09 PM
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anotherscott Online content
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Originally Posted by Chordo24
I`m new to this game with an MP 11 and lousy speakers.

Which would you recommend me to get?

Better speakers. ;-)

Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809458
02/01/19 01:23 PM
02/01/19 01:23 PM
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Istanbul
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IosPlayer Offline
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Yep, better speakers. Ravenscroft is sampled sound. PianoTech is modeled. PT offers more variety in choices of pianos. RC can be customized for a great variety of sounds. It is your subjective choice, but at least get a decent pair of headphones or it won't make a difference what you get,


Jazz at www.newartistsrecords.com. Search Michael Levy. Use Safari for free tracks.
https://soundcloud.com/michael-levy-387395070
1915 Steinway B, Kawai MP11se, Casio AT5
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: IosPlayer] #2809466
02/01/19 01:43 PM
02/01/19 01:43 PM
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Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
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Marcos Daniel Offline
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I don't know if Ravenscroft can be tested, you can try the Pianoteq demo to see if it convinces you.


Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809473
02/01/19 02:03 PM
02/01/19 02:03 PM
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Chordo24 Offline OP
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Thanks all, yeah, I`ve a got decent headset And concerning new speakers I might get a spacestation.

Still some profound opinions of players who have expeerience with one or both of those vst would be nice to habe. Unfortunately I can`t test the ravenscroft.

Kind regards

Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809479
02/01/19 02:15 PM
02/01/19 02:15 PM
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newer player Online content
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An alternative test:

1. free pianoteq trial
2. Ravenscroft iOS for $35. You will need an Apple device. Bluetooth midi might be to choppy so maybe you need some gizmo like the CCK to connect the MP11

Maybe you find the MP11 onboard sound and responsiveness isn't so bad

Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809500
02/01/19 03:14 PM
02/01/19 03:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by Chordo24
(although I don`t know if I could choose these freely)

If by freely, you mean easily switch between these virtual instruments, the answer is yes, it is easy to switch between them. In addition to the two pianos that come with Pianoteq STAGE, you also can easily switch to any of the virtual instruments you haven't paid for in what they call "demo mode" (lasts a few minutes and some of the keys are missing). But demo mode is good enough to try out the instruments.

As mentioned above, I would definitely try Pianoteq out for free before buying. I did and it sold me. I now have Pianoteq and six of their virtual piano models. My personal favorites are the Steingraeber E-272 and the Blüthner Model 1.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809522
02/01/19 03:44 PM
02/01/19 03:44 PM
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I would kinda recommend against both. The Ravenscroft has some fans on here, they often cite it as one of their top 3 or top 5 piano VSTs. I don't like it at all, personally. The tone is very cold and lifeless. The worst thing about it is that it has several settings for volume/velocity/sensitivity (or whatever exact terms they used). Even after hours of fiddling with it, I couldn't configure it so that it would feel natural when playing, and I couldn't get the dynamic range to be large enough for loud notes to really feel loudly. Wait for some other people's opinion about this though, as I said there's people who really like it.

PIanoteq Stage is not bad I guess. There's hardly a piano VST that is more divisive on here, some love it dearly, some hate it. I personally think its playability is great if you spend the time to configure it, but the sound will always sound synthetic and fake to me. Every time I play Pianoteq and move back to a sampled piano it always feels soo good. The thing of note here though is that the stage version doesn't allow you to fine tune the instrument beyond the preset choice. That means you will also not be able to change string length, and you won't get note edit for volume. Some notes had a really annoying nasal and metallic sound (even more nasal and metallic than all the others), and the only way to fix that was to change the string length a little bit. That won't be possible with the stage version. And some notes were way too loud or hurt my ears on my setup, in my case that were the highest four or five or so keys. In the stage version, you cannot change the volume of those, in the Standard version you could.

Honestly, if you HAVE to get a VST then just get Garritan CFX Lite instead.

Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809533
02/01/19 04:11 PM
02/01/19 04:11 PM
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UK
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Alexander Borro Offline
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+1 to a lot Grazilerimba said.

I would add that something that stuck with me CyberGene said ages ago, ask yourself, "Are you a timbre man" , if accuracy and authenticity in timbre is important, then pianoteq will not be for you, unless you happen to have ears that happen to convince you the timbre is real (versus synthetic and somewhat harsh and fatigue prone how it seems to me), then you are in luck and will likely love it.

The ravenscroft has been sampled very well. I have heard recordings of the real deal and a lot of the characteristics of the ravenscroft are unique to that instrument. Personally I think it is better suited to pop, jazz, but not classical so much.

I own both pteq and ravens I have my phases with the ravenscroft because it has something, and it is nice to play in the end of the day, but the timbre is not my ideal piano sound, It sounds nothing like Steinway or anything else , even though the very first original concept came from a revamped Steinway .... IIRC.

I leave you with this recording for classical, do you like it ? If so, it is probably for you because the virtual version sounds very similar. While it has a very clear sound it also has a metallic twang and coldness I never liked so much that comes through in that recording. I found a negative timbre shift helps somewhat, it is very configurable.






Last edited by Alexander Borro; 02/01/19 04:14 PM.

Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809553
02/01/19 04:43 PM
02/01/19 04:43 PM
Joined: May 2018
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Denmark
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QuasiUnaFantasia Offline
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I just want to add in defense of Pianoteq Stage that you can change the sound dramatically with the parameters available. Especially I would mention the possibility to alter the velocity curve; this is not only a way to accommodate any particular DP or keyboard, but also a way to focus on certain types of sound. For example, I think the Bechstein DG has too much emphasis on a clear bell like sound at high velocities, so I have eliminated some of that to increase the range of the more murky sounds normally heard at lower velocities.

In addition to that, there are all the effects, which by themselves can completely alter the sound.


Roland FP-30, Roland E-28, Pianoteq 6.5 (Bechstein DG, Grotrian, Steinway D, K2)
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809576
02/01/19 05:34 PM
02/01/19 05:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 158
Warsaw, Poland
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AlphaBravoCharlie Offline
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Another vote for Pianoteq. If you decide to buy additional models, I personally recommend Steinway B. Loving it. Just recorded a quick demo (1st part is some random pop, 2nd classical attempt).

Soundcloud PTQ demo


Korg Grandstage 88 | Kawai ES8 | Pianoteq 6 | Behringer UMC202HD | Takstar PRO82
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809579
02/01/19 05:39 PM
02/01/19 05:39 PM
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nicknameTaken Offline
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Another vote for Pianoteq.
I tried many VST's.... Pianoteq was the best! Especially when properly configured to my likings.

Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809585
02/01/19 06:14 PM
02/01/19 06:14 PM
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Posts: 420
UK
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As we’re all voting, +1 for pianoteq too..it has the playability of a Roland using fully supernatural sound but sounds more like a piano than the actual Roland sound. Plus you can alter it to your hearts content - stage version onwards that is.

Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: jamiecw] #2809593
02/01/19 06:33 PM
02/01/19 06:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by jamiecw
As we’re all voting, +1 for pianoteq too

Yeah, +1 Pianoteq


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: jamiecw] #2809594
02/01/19 06:34 PM
02/01/19 06:34 PM
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Alexander Borro Offline
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Originally Posted by jamiecw
As we’re all voting, +1 for pianoteq too..it has the playability of a Roland using fully supernatural sound but sounds more like a piano than the actual Roland sound. Plus you can alter it to your hearts content - stage version onwards that is.

I spent an hour a month ago on the lx708. I don't agree. If anything roland are ahead now with the European grand but I couldn't warm to either, the modelling artificial nature and thinness still comes through both.

That being said, the LX 708 over speakers was still a a great experience, expressive dynamic, nimble action etc. I suppose it didn't help I attended a recital an hour out before hand on a proper steinway D , no comparison, the lack in body of tone is so apparent amongst other things. and the timbre in modelling is just not pleasing to me, close to real or not, to me it isn't.

Anyway, this is for the Op to decide, just to say one vote up for pianoteq without a reason or explanation is not helpful.


Selftaught since June 2014.
Books: Barratt classic piano course bk 1,2,3. Humphries Piano handbook, various...
Kawai CA78, Casio AP450 & software pianos.
[Linked Image] 12x ABF recitals.
My struggles: https://soundcloud.com/alexander-borro
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809614
02/01/19 07:48 PM
02/01/19 07:48 PM
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RobR Offline
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Ravenscroft....by 999,999,999 miles.

Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809639
02/01/19 09:01 PM
02/01/19 09:01 PM
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Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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Like I have said before I really like playing Pianoteq and I don't get tried of the sound as others do. But here is the thing, if I was recording I would use a sampled VSTi. It does sound better. Pianoteq for playing just has a response a play ability if you will to it and that I really enjoy. YMMV smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: RobR] #2809652
02/01/19 09:51 PM
02/01/19 09:51 PM
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Milwaukee, WI
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Originally Posted by tdwctdwc
Ravenscroft....by 999,999,999 miles.


Agreed, it's not even close.

They aren't even in the same league.

Now if you were to ask Ravenscroft vs. Garritan CFX... then you would be in the same league.

Do you not like the Kawai Grand in the MP11...?


Looking to purchase: Kawai MP(12), or Kawai VPC(2), or something Yamaha...
Current: Yamaha Synthesizer
Previous: Kawai CP205, Kawai CP207, Yamaha Synthesizers
Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809664
02/01/19 10:18 PM
02/01/19 10:18 PM
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Bangkok, Thailand
siros Offline
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I have both Ravenscroft and Pianoteq Standard (with several of the models).
I don't use Ravenscroft much anymore. It sounds nice for a particular type of tone.
But for normal play/practice, I use Pianoteq. I can just play without worrying how the notes or pedal would behave.

And if I have to do recording with what I have, I might use Galaxy Vintage D.

Re: Ravenscroft 275 vs. Pianoteq Stage [Re: Chordo24] #2809690
02/02/19 01:23 AM
02/02/19 01:23 AM
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Craig Richards Offline
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I've been using Pianoteq since purchasing a boxed version of V.1.5 many years ago, have regularly bought updates since then, and have been on several beta testing teams, as well as contributing demos for the Steingraeber, Steinway B & Ant. Petrof models, so I know it well.

Each update brings the sound closer to an acoustic piano. The playability, response, pedalling behaviour is as close as you get to the real thing in the virtual piano world at present. Low memory footprint & CPU overhead are another positive. There are differing views on the realism of the Pianoteq pianos, and I partly agree with some of the criticism that all the models at default settings have a sameness to the tone, and a slight artificial/plastic quality. To overcome this I recommend adjusting the condition slider to around 15-20. It adds some 'imperfect' qualities to the tone which help with authenticity of tone. My big tips for Pianoteq are:

1. Spend time finding the optimum velocity setting to match your keyboard. Hitting the high velocities too easily can make it sound harsh and un-natural.

2. Experiment with the Unison Width, Octave Stretching & Hammer Hardness settings. They make a huge difference.

3. If using it as a plugin within a DAW, disable the internal reverb & compression, and use an external plugin compressor (many high quality free one are available) and run it though the Valhalla Room Reverb plugin - a Large Room with 15-20 sec pre-delay, and some late modulation to give it some randomness or 'waviness' in the sustains and reverb tails.

I bought the VI labs Ravenscroft 275 and really enjoyed it initially (the muted samples are great to experiment with too) but after many months the cold, clinical tone got to me and I sold my copy. Very high quality & extensively sampled piano, 'plays' great (including real Una Corda samples) and very efficient running in the free UVI player, but I just couldn't gel with it's inherent sonic signature. If I played more Jazz or modern pop stuff I may have a different opinion, but for me, I just couldn't "lay back" with it, and found it was a relief when I switched to other sampled pianos like Ivory American D, Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano (Steinway B) or even the old Acoustic Samples Kawai EX Pro (produced by the same VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 developer Lance Herring) and Pianoteq's Steingraeber, Steinway B or Ant. Petrof models.

Last edited by Craig Richards; 02/02/19 01:23 AM.

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