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Hello everyone!

I'm a 45-year old man and I've always fancied the idea of playing the piano, and back in 2012 I was inspired by Bruce Hornby's video "The way it is"... that song is simply gorgeous, and the way he plays seems like so much fun to me, so I went out and purchased a Kawai MP6 and Rocket Piano with the intention of learning it but then I had two kids and I came up with excuses to procrastinate. Fast forward to this week where just a couple of days ago I came across a YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqsibzAiIBs, or search for 'Adult Beginner Piano Progress - 1 Year of practice' posted by Brandon Hawksley) showing time-lapse snippets of a guy's progress over the course of a year, on approx. 2 hours practice per day, from zero to hero, and on week three he's playing Fur Elise and my mind is blown, because I'm thinking if he can do it in three weeks then I can do it, and I would sell my soul to play Beethoven. At month 6 he's playing a RagTime tune and I'm thinking, what in the world?! There's a slew of comments on YouTube from experts saying that it's not possible, he must have had some background despite the guy's claims that it's his first time, no background, and there's also comments saying that it's definitely possible. Who to believe? I don't know, but it's inspired me to make time and see if I can do it in the same amount of time he did, so here's a few questions for you experts :

1) Assuming this guy is not lying, is it fair to base my own expectations on his progress, or is he a prodigy whose rate of progress lies outside the normal distribution and therefore I should not expect to learn at this pace any more than I would expect to learn at Mozart's pace?

2) My actual goal is to learn "The Way It Is" but first I'd like to see how fast I can learn Fur Elise since I'd like to gauge my progress against the YouTube guy. I'm looking for optimized learning techniques to make the best of my time and came across Piano University's "Supercharge Your Piano Practice" course so I'll probably pull the trigger on that one. He also has something for Music Theory so I'll go with that as well since I read elsewhere on this forum that I shouldn't learn by ear and need to learn how to read music. I've also downloaded a couple of music theory learning and practice apps on the iPhone so I can learn during my commute to/from work (Piano Notes, Music Tutor, and Aural Wiz). My question is : should I get myself a piano teacher (I'm thinking the answer is 'yes') and if so, how do I find a really good one that will help me fulfill these goals? (I live in Brooklyn NYC) What should I look for, are there any qualifications they should have, what are reasonable rates, etc...

3) Given my eventual and actual goal of learning to play "The Way It Is" with the same style and grace as the venerable Bruce Hornsby, who according to ever article I've read seems to have his own style that is unorthodox, what are your recommendations? Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,

Anthony

Welcome to PW Anthony!

Brandon Hawksley already played an instrument before he started (flute) and so he could already read music, of at least one clef. Also, Brandon Hawkley was accepted to two UK universities as a piano performance major, after his 'mad dash.' I think he is obviously a unique and unusual case. Trying to emulate him will likely result in disappointment. I think you should not try to plan for something like this. You should learn piano at your own pace, not Brandon's pace. It will ultimately be more rewarding.

Ahh yes, you're right, he has some small background in that he did Flute for a few months back when he was really young but dropped it. I'll take this into account but I'd imagine that an adult with a mind to do it and the proper motivation can learn that faster than a child who lacks that motivation. However, you do say he's a unique case so I guess that answers my question regarding him being a prodigy. I will greatly appreciate, however, answers to my other questions regarding an optimized path towards achieving my goals.

Thanks!

I'm too much of a beginner myself to be able to offer advice on your other questions, but there are many experienced members here who will probably step in with some advice.

I did want to make one more comment on Brandon-like performance. It's possible that Brandon will struggle when he is at the university because of the way he learned, the short period of time, and that he isn't well-rounded and experienced. One the PW members, vervurka, recently pointed out in a Reddit discussion that in her university class, there was classmate who famously got admitted with only 2-3 years of piano experience, on the strength of wiring his recital pieces. But the result of that was he was struggling to graduate and if you were in a group with him, it was a sad thing because everyone knew he would be the slowest to learn his parts and struggle over them. She said that he ended up graduating with the lowest possible marks in every subject.

My point of retelling her story about this fellow being that I don't think you "really" want to be like that. Trying to crunch through as much material as possible, and you might end up as a "one trick pony." On Reddit, there are a number of young people posting their virtuoso piano pieces they learned from Synthesia, as the small handful of piano music they know at all.

I agree with you 100% in that I don't want to learn in a way that will retard my future development. To your point, this morning I was reading a post in the "Piano Teachers Forum" titled "AT a lost with a student" (http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2800124/at-a-loss-with-student.html) and in there they talk about their experience with other students who come in with pretty impressive skills who ultimately fail at developing further due to the bad habits they've accumulated. I'm so glad I read this because that thread is the main reason why I'm posting here asking for advice on how I should go about accomplishing my goal, otherwise I would have simply gone out and tried to do it by ear and probably screwed myself up for good. Good advice Tyrone!

I was going to say the same thing. That song by Bruce Hornsby might be cool to play but do you really want to be a "one trick pony" as Tyrone puts it? Wouldn't it be nicer to be able to play a bunch of music or perhaps even improvise in the same style rather than play one piece that you'll get tired of pretty quickly?

As for rushing to learn pieces that are intermediate/advanced before being ready will probably result in frustration. I think getting a teacher would be a good idea.

Sorry, I don't mean to give the impression that I only want to play "The Way It Is" by Bruce Hornsby, just that it was my inspiration for buying the piano and buying the Rocket Piano course, sort of that nudge that started me in this direction, even though it took me until now to blow the dust off my piano and actually start learning. I would surmise that if I can play this song at the same proficiency level as Hornsby himself then I am more than capable of playing a vast repertoire of other songs that I love. It is precisely because I want to avoid becoming a one-trick-pony that I am asking for advice here.

Thanks!

Surely, your soul is worth more than that!



In a word: No!



Not a good first goal. Fur Elise is not as easy as it may sound or look. You need some basic technique before attempting it, and attempting it without technique can be both discouraging and disastrous.



Definitely!



Yes, the answer is "Yes."



You need to find someone to whom you can articulate your goals and who will listen and understand those goals. Make sure you find a teacher who is comfortable, willing and able to teach adult students.[...]



My take on this - and you can tell from the above responses that I am very much in the traditionalist camp - is that you shouldn't have as a goal learning to play a particular piece like someone else. Get involved in a musical journey with a good teacher who will help you develop your own style. You may find that, as you progress, Hornby's style may no longer be your primary focus.

Regards,

Just to say you're not the only one on loving "That's Just the Way It Is."

I don't happen to like much pop written for early levels so I'm putting off even looking at it for a few years in terms of learning strategy and focusing on baroque, classical, romantic and 20th cent. composers who wrote for beginners.

Your journey may be completely different, so I agree with most of the advice above on finding a teacher sympatico to your goals if you don't know where to start.

Good luck with your journey.

There is a 30 minute Q&A video now. I'm glad he presented the video of what he did. He is at an uni studying in UK studying a foundation year at university. This is like an access course. It is specifically for people who do not have the background to straight get in to the course. I think given the very short time it should be highly commended and he will be able to start next year the first year of the degree. I am not sure why he had so much hate against him. I think there was too much hype about it. He is not at a piano conservatory . I am sure he would not have not got it as there is a lot of people with much more experience he could never compete against. He is preparing for Grade 8 and he seems a nice guy. I wish him well.

I noticed that the gentleman has created a 30 minute video explaining the background of his progress. I only flipped through a little bit, but that was enough to suggest it might be good to go through it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyB6_wRtomY&feature=youtu.be

Hi Antony - Welcome to the forum! I totally get where you are coming from - my dream song is 'Firth of Fifth', a famous 70's progressive rock song. I am 59 and piano is my big retirement activity - I am starting from scratch. One thing you notice at this forum is there are generous experienced people that share their knowledge - take heed, this is one way that you learn faster. But there are no short cuts and piano is challenging to learn. Anybody can learn but you have to have patience and diligence....and having a good teacher is priceless to making the process go smoother in my opinion.

Hey at 45, your a relatively young guy and in ten years you can be a very good player. You might be surprised at how much joy the process of learning brings you and how much it improves other parts of your life. Good Luck!

Haha, thanks Progman! I agree, there are no shortcuts, and I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm looking for something analogous to a "get rick quick" scheme. What I'm aiming for is a style of learning best suited for my goals and optimizing my learning so that I'm working smarter rather than harder, so to speak, which will result in learning more given the same amount of effort. I guess I'm harping on this (and particularly sensitive to it) because I work in the programming field where I see people spending 100% of a day's effort on a problem that will only result in at most a 1% gain in performance when they could have spent 10% of a day's effort on a different problem that will result in a 200% gain in performance; now that's bang for the buck! Whatever I do I will tackle with gusto and determination but I want to make sure I'm spending it on all the right things for all the right reasons. I plan on 2 hours a day and I'm currently creating a schedule to work around my job, wife, and kids; I hope that's enough to make me proficient within my lifetime!

Anthony, For a very systematic piano learning approach, take a look at Keselo's own piano learning approach for himself, which is also documented in his progress thread on ABF from almost the beginning of his learning two years ago. I think his approach is pretty powerful and systematic and makes a lot of sense. It also doesn't waste a lot of motion.

Anthony, you can't compare yourself to others, the learning journey is individual. Look at your progress from one year to the next. You seem motivated, so don't be discouraged if learning the piano takes years of practice. I look at my 27 year old teacher and think I want to play like that (I am 58). However, 5 years of lessons is not getting me there, to think I am going to play like him is unrealistic (unless God just gives me the talent), and I will set myself up for failure. The man has a masters in music and has been playing multiple instruments since the age of 5. Statistically considering your life expectancy you will end up playing well, you have a lot of years to learn. I agree get a teacher. I have taken both piano and music theory. Taking theory has helped me progress.

As others have suggested …..

The best is to get a teacher ….. try to explain the type of music you would like to play and let the teacher decide what to do next.

If you do that …. you have time (years) to get there.

If you look for "your way" for whatever reason …. you may never get there.

Or if you do it will take you much longer.

Now …. in fairness … I should add …

You certainly can do stuff (youtube videos, online courses, DVDs, etc …) on your own and just have fun doing it … but do not expect rapid results …. it will be much slower.

And it is very possible you will never attain the level needed to play those pieces you mentioned.

You have to understand that you are not going to see yourself "making progress" every day ….

You just keep at it …. a little bit each day …. and one day ….. years from now …. you will notice that you have made progress.

You are going to have to enjoy that …"little bit each day" …. part, because that is all there is for a long while.

I compare it to reading a lengthy novel … Let's use Crime and Punishment as an example.

If you decide to read it and you read a little bit each evening and read it slowly and thoroughly enjoy that time in the story … when you reach the end, you will have enjoyed many evenings with that book.

If, on the other hand, you are reading fast and trying "get done" you may not be getting enjoyment out of your reading each evening. When you finish, it will probably feel like a relief because you are "done" … instead of realizing all the enjoyment you experienced while reading it.

AND …. if you have a teacher …. it will happen much faster.

Good Luck

Just wanted to say, welcome to the lovely forum madness, which I’ve only discovered a few months ago myself. And “The Way It Is” is a beautiful song and definitely doable if you take the time to practice and learn. I suspect that along the way, you’ll discover so much more to make you stick with it, the joy of learning, the beauty of other pieces you’ll be playing... It’s a very rewarding experience altogether!

Otherwise, Bruce has said it all

Progman: Good old Genesis!! I think I know what I’ll listen to later.

Thanks to all for the advice! I went to my first piano lesson last night, she didn’t want me to study anything before hand, catch me raw and green under the ears to see how I learn. Started by writing down some notes and showing me what they mean and having me play them, c d and e, and the fractional notes (don’t know what the proper terminology is but there’s four of them from quarter note up), first with right hand then with both bass (left) and right. It was only 15 minutes worth on the piano but at the end she said I learn fast and that I can skip about 6 months worth of lessons. She gave me some homework and I’ve signed up for long term lessons, half hour long once a week. I’m excited!

She did, however, at the very beginning before even testing me, dash my dreams of seeing how fast I can do fur Elise like that guy in the video at 3 weeks; I was really looking forward to that challenge even though I know it’s unrealistic. She said that there’s more to just learning to play those notes, that there’s so much more that I should learn as a foundation before I should tackle that, and that fur Elise would be something that should be tackled around the 2 year mark, not because it’s technically difficult (she said it’s not hard) but that there’s a lot more involved that I’m not aware of to perform it properly in a way that would not insult heir Beethoven himself. She’s a traditionalist and I respect that, but I wish there was a way I could learn the right way *and* try my hand at matching the YouTube guy’s progress. Maybe it’s a stupid male testosterone challenge kind of thing going on but it does serve as fuel for the fire, lol!

Anyway, I’m really excited, I purchased the adult adventures in piano workbook and some flash cards so let’s see what happens. I plan on reading theory and practicing it during my train commute using iPhone apps and the flash cards, but I was wondering if there’s a mini keyboard that you guys use to practice during commutes, something really small and practical. I remember the Casio PT-1 keyboards back in the 80s and that seems to be perfect; what do you guys use nowadays?

Anthony:

It is good to hear that you have taken the advice given by many here and secured a teacher.

And while enthusiasm is not bad, in itself, it can lead to depression when enthusiastic expectations are not realized.

With the help of your teacher and regular practice, you are going to make very good progress.

You may not know it because you have nothing to compare it to.

The danger is to have expectations of how fast you should be able to do things.

That can cause you to be disappointed and start thinking "there must be a better way".

There isn't. Just keep at it and try not to judge yourself or your progress. It will happen.

Try to take pride in how well you do the material you are working on today (assigned by your teacher) and tomorrow will take care of itself.

Good Luck

Maybe a keytar is the answer for your commute. If nothing else, it will definitely will be a conversation starter.