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Re: Inversions [Re: jazzpig] #2808618
01/30/19 01:28 PM
01/30/19 01:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
J
jazzpig Offline OP
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jazzpig  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
Originally Posted by jazzpig

I find that playing most 7th chords from a root position (with left hand) is a real challenge physically. It feels like I'm contorting my fingers and they get trapped in the keys. I don't know if this a result of me trying to learn this later in life with older hands, or something that is overcome with practice, it feels so unnatural. I would love to hear your experience on this.


I'ld like to revisit this concern I have. Does anybody have any thoughts on this, I see others play these chords seemingly effortlessly and it just feels so off for me.
Let me know if you can.

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Re: Inversions [Re: jazzpig] #2808632
01/30/19 02:03 PM
01/30/19 02:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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Reseda, California
Originally Posted by jazzpig
Originally Posted by jazzpig

I find that playing most 7th chords from a root position (with left hand) is a real challenge physically. It feels like I'm contorting my fingers and they get trapped in the keys. I don't know if this a result of me trying to learn this later in life with older hands, or something that is overcome with practice, it feels so unnatural. I would love to hear your experience on this.


I'ld like to revisit this concern I have. Does anybody have any thoughts on this, I see others play these chords seemingly effortlessly and it just feels so off for me.
Let me know if you can.


Yes, a lot of times you get chords where most of the notes are naturals, but the 7 lands on a black key -- like C7. Especially in the "easy" keys like C, F, and G. You have to get your thumb up onto a black while the rest of the notes are whites. If your fingers don't fit between the blacks, like mine, that's a pain. One solution is to transpose to a "hard" key -- which actually is easy on your hands, just a little more work for your brain.

Rocket's suggestion of dropping some notes is a good one. Often the 5 is a good one to lose. But the 3 is what makes it major or minor, so that one you usually need.

Inversions might work -- I find C7/E a whole lot easier to play than C7 -- but the danger there is compromising the bass for the sake of convenience.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Inversions [Re: jazzpig] #2808634
01/30/19 02:12 PM
01/30/19 02:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,111
rocket88 Offline
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rocket88  Offline
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Posts: 4,111
This post is a little out of sequence due to editing.

Originally Posted by jazzpig

I find that playing most 7th chords from a root position (with left hand) is a real challenge physically. It feels like I'm contorting my fingers and they get trapped in the keys. I don't know if this a result of me trying to learn this later in life with older hands, or something that is overcome with practice, it feels so unnatural. I would love to hear your experience on this.


Can you post a video of your playing some chords with the Left hand?

Pretty much impossible to comment accurately with such limited information. It is like posting "I don't feel good" and asking for accurate medical advice.

In any case, here are some possible causes of your problem:

* Sitting too close to the keyboard

* Sitting too far to the right or the left so the wrist is twisted while playing chords

* Fingers too thick to fit into the black keys

* Playing too many notes of the chord...the left hand plays in the area of the keyboard where a full chord can sound muddy. Drop a note, (often the 5th) and chords get much easier to play, and are less muddy. (This also can help with thick fingers)

For example, if the music calls for a C7 chord in the left hand, you can play C with the 5th finger, and Bb with the thumb, and fill in other note(s) with the Right hand. And A G7 chord with the left hand sounds good with G played with the 5th finger, and F and G played together with the thumb...a bit unconventional with Classical fingering, but it works well.

BTW, can you find a piano teacher? A good teacher can quickly identify the problem and (possibly) come up with a workable solution. I have had numerous people show up for their first lesson after learning from a bad teacher or from internet videos and/or books, and the cause(s) of the problem they want help with is easily identifiable to a knowledgable onlooker, yet was a mystery to them, and given their abilities, probably not something they could find and fix.


Piano teacher.
Re: Inversions [Re: JohnSprung] #2808652
01/30/19 02:55 PM
01/30/19 02:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
J
jazzpig Offline OP
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jazzpig  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
Originally Posted by JohnSprung

Rocket's suggestion of dropping some notes is a good one. Often the 5 is a good one to lose. But the 3 is what makes it major or minor, so that one you usually need.

Inversions might work -- I find C7/E a whole lot easier to play than C7 -- but the danger there is compromising the bass for the sake of convenience.


Dropping the 5 does make it much easier but it sounds a little hollow and compromises the tone significantly in my opinion.

I agree, I prefer C7/E to C7 but I also feel that it's less of a compromise than dropping the 5, in the bigger picture. At least that's what it sounds like to my ear.

Thanks

Re: Inversions [Re: rocket88] #2808657
01/30/19 03:10 PM
01/30/19 03:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
J
jazzpig Offline OP
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jazzpig  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
Originally Posted by rocket88

* Sitting too close to the keyboard

* Sitting too far to the right or the left so the wrist is twisted while playing chords

BTW, can you find a piano teacher? A good teacher can quickly identify the problem and (possibly) come up with a workable solution. I have had numerous people show up for their first lesson after learning from a bad teacher or from internet videos and/or books, and the cause(s) of the problem they want help with is easily identifiable to a knowledgable onlooker, yet was a mystery to them, and given their abilities, probably not something they could find and fix.


I made some adjustments in both areas and I can't believe the difference! We'll see to what extent it will resolve my issues, but with the few chords I tried, it's like night and day.

I have a 61 key portable that I got as a gift, that I practice on. Funny enough, when I practice scales and Hanon I adjust my seating but I never have for practicing chords. Don't ask me why. I'm looking to pick up a good quality 88 key portable very soon, before I find a teacher.

Yes, I've come to the conclusion that I want to find a teacher much sooner than later. As I mentioned in a previous post, I realize I'm spinning my wheels too much.

Thanks

Last edited by jazzpig; 01/30/19 03:14 PM.
Re: Inversions [Re: jazzpig] #2808659
01/30/19 03:15 PM
01/30/19 03:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,111
rocket88 Offline
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rocket88  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,111
That is good news! Sometimes a small adjustment can make all the difference in the world, like taking a pebble out of your shoe. laugh

BTW, many if not most 61 note keyboards have smaller keys that are both shorter and narrower as compared to the keys on an acoustic piano, or to an 88 key weighted keyboard that imitates a piano.

That factor alone could be a significant part of your problem.

Best wishes!


Piano teacher.
Re: Inversions [Re: rocket88] #2808669
01/30/19 03:31 PM
01/30/19 03:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
J
jazzpig Offline OP
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jazzpig  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
Originally Posted by rocket88

BTW, many if not most 61 note keyboards have smaller keys that are both shorter and narrower as compared to the keys on an acoustic piano, or to an 88 key weighted keyboard that imitates a piano.

That factor alone could be a significant part of your problem. !


I agree, Whenever I 've fiddled around on an acoustic or 88 weighted keyboard, it really felt like my hands could "breathe".

Thanks again.

Re: Inversions [Re: jazzpig] #2808688
01/30/19 04:15 PM
01/30/19 04:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by jazzpig
I'm looking to pick up a good quality 88 key portable very soon, before I find a teacher.


You might want to reverse that order, so your teacher can have some input on the make/model decision....




-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Inversions [Re: JohnSprung] #2808700
01/30/19 04:57 PM
01/30/19 04:57 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,418
Owen Sound, Ontario
G
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014
Greener  Offline

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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,418
Owen Sound, Ontario
Originally Posted by JohnSprung

Where do you get those wonderful well arranged lead sheets? The ones I've seen can be OK, or they can be very mundane and prosaic.


My Dad wrote them. I have 100's but there are 1000's. My Sister has the mother load. Yes unfortunately commercial music is rarely very good. Agree you may often need to make an arrangement better, but usually they will need a lot more then just an alternate bass note.

Re: Inversions [Re: JohnSprung] #2808721
01/30/19 05:48 PM
01/30/19 05:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
J
jazzpig Offline OP
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jazzpig  Offline OP
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J

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25
Toronto, ON
Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by jazzpig
I'm looking to pick up a good quality 88 key portable very soon, before I find a teacher.


You might want to reverse that order, so your teacher can have some input on the make/model decision....



That's the smart move. Thanks so much!

Re: Inversions [Re: Greener] #2808733
01/30/19 06:40 PM
01/30/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
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JohnSprung  Offline
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6000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by Greener
My Dad wrote them. I have 100's but there are 1000's. My Sister has the mother load. Yes unfortunately commercial music is rarely very good. .


It would be great if you could publish some of them. The rights hassles are potentially daunting, but anything from 1923 and earlier is PD. That means the Charleston is PD now. Next year 1924 goes PD, and so forth up to 1963.... Maybe do a book every few years as songs become available....

http://www.publicdomainsherpa.com/copyright-duration2.html


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
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