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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
angmyu #2805440 01/23/19 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by angmyu
Originally Posted by thickfingers
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Really, Pianoteq is the "Love or Hate" thing. smile

I have to agree--there are those who love it, and those who hate that it's better than the sampled VI's. grin


never. I think it's your illusion. People who hate pianoteq hate pianoteq itself. They think the pianoteq is bad by a large margin than the sampled VI in terms of sound.

In my case, I like pianoteq in terms of playability but I don't like pianoteq users who disparage sampled VI. A few days ago, a pianoteq user said to a sampled VI user. 'Pianoteq is not for you.' Likewise, the sampled VI is not for him. Pianoteq users must live in their own kingdom without denigrating the sampled VI.


What I am taking from that is that the best VST is the one that the player/listener likes to play with/hear to...that's fair.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
angmyu #2805494 01/23/19 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by angmyu

In my case, I like pianoteq in terms of playability but I don't like pianoteq users who disparage sampled VI. A few days ago, a pianoteq user said to a sampled VI user. 'Pianoteq is not for you.' Likewise, the sampled VI is not for him. Pianoteq users must live in their own kingdom without denigrating the sampled VI.


To be fair, that type of fanboyism exists on both sides (and I say this as a fan of a sampled VST and not a fan at all of PT5/6 sound). The attachment some people place on virtual piano instruments as if it impacts their own self-worth....


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Max_Forte #2805511 01/23/19 02:07 PM
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I partly agree. Vintage D is so authentic sounding, though I find it hard to control ... it has very wide dynamics. So I use Grandeur more often.
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
"The Grandeur" is a brother of "Vintage D", so playability is very similar if not at the same level, but personally, I prefer "Vintage D".

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Gombessa #2805537 01/23/19 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by thickfingers
I have to agree--there are those who love it, and those who hate that it's better than the sampled VI's. grin
Originally Posted by Gombessa
To be fair, that type of fanboyism exists on both sides.....The attachment some people place on virtual piano instruments as if it impacts their own self-worth....

Er, it was a joke, to be fair. Nobody really harbours the opinion I expressed in that gag. There's even the mandatory smiley, look. Here's another one smile
'

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
thickfingers #2805566 01/23/19 04:15 PM
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You mean you don't harbor that opinion? Ok.
But I do.
Originally Posted by thickfingers
... it was a joke, to be fair. Nobody really harbours the opinion I expressed in that gag.
These two pianos sound better by far than most.
True, I don't yet own the latest VSTs from 2017 and 2018, so maybe there are now better Steinway VI packages.
But among those I've tried I find that Vintage D and Grandeur are tops.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
thickfingers #2805574 01/23/19 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by thickfingers

Er, it was a joke, to be fair. Nobody really harbours the opinion I expressed in that gag. There's even the mandatory smiley, look. Here's another one smile
'


I wasn't talking about anything you said, it was just a general comment wink


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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Gombessa #2805580 01/23/19 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by angmyu

In my case, I like pianoteq in terms of playability but I don't like pianoteq users who disparage sampled VI. A few days ago, a pianoteq user said to a sampled VI user. 'Pianoteq is not for you.' Likewise, the sampled VI is not for him. Pianoteq users must live in their own kingdom without denigrating the sampled VI.


To be fair, that type of fanboyism exists on both sides (and I say this as a fan of a sampled VST and not a fan at all of PT5/6 sound). The attachment some people place on virtual piano instruments as if it impacts their own self-worth....


I use both: a bunch of sampled VI's and the complete bundle of Pianoteq, including its new Bechstein Grand, which is really good. Most of the time I play the fabulous Shigeru Kawai EX which came standard on my Novus NV10, sometimes a sampled Bosendorfer, Steinway, Ravenscroft, Yamaha, Pleyel, etc, etc., and sometimes one of the historic or current PT grands. Why choose? They all have a different charm, tone, playability. Enjoy all of it!

Last edited by RalphK; 01/23/19 04:52 PM.
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2805595 01/23/19 05:15 PM
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I understand the intent of disabling the DSP effects. But not using reverb gives a slight advantage to the sample libraries. The samples always include some ambiance and reverb from the recording session whereas pianoteq has none due to the nature of modelling.

Btw, are there any sampled VSTi recorded in an anechoic chamber and where ambience in reverb is not part of the sample itself and need to be added later, like pianoteq does?

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
RalphK #2805601 01/23/19 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RalphK


.........Most of the time I play the fabulous Shigeru Kawai EX which came standard on my Novus NV10, .......



I wonder if there isn`t a VSTI available with which I could play that fabulous Shigeru EX on my MP11 (no SE)!

Last edited by Chordo24; 01/23/19 05:36 PM.
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Chordo24 #2805642 01/23/19 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus

Btw, are there any sampled VSTi recorded in an anechoic chamber and where ambience in reverb is not part of the sample itself and need to be added later, like pianoteq does?


Ugh, "clean/dry" sampling and trying to add in ambiance with digital filters is such a dead end path for me. While I'm morbidly curious about the results, my thought is it would be something like:

Load Garritan CFX. Disable ambient mics and use only the close-mic'd perspective. Play with the reverb options and try to replicate the realism of using both close and ambient mics together (with zero reverb). IMHO the results are going to be disappointing.

Originally Posted by Chordo24
[quote=RalphK]
I wonder if there isn`t a VSTI available with which I could play that fabulous Shigeru EX on my MP11 (no SE)!


There are umpteen Steinway-D VSTs, a handful of excellent CFX ones....and no SK-EX, which IMO is a real shame. Maybe Kawai should stand up a shell VST company just to seed the market with a high-quality SK-EX sample wink


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Gombessa #2805666 01/23/19 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa


Ugh, "clean/dry" sampling and trying to add in ambiance with digital filters is such a dead end path for me. While I'm morbidly curious about the results, my thought is it would be something like:

Load Garritan CFX. Disable ambient mics and use only the close-mic'd perspective. Play with the reverb options and try to replicate the realism of using both close and ambient mics together (with zero reverb). IMHO the results are going to be disappointing.

I think in case of the Garritan CFX you are absolutely right.
But it has to do with the ( to my ears) very pleasant sound of the Abbey Road studio environment.
The Hammersmith and VSL soundiron stage are unpleasant to my ears, so the ambient mics are meh....

I took the time for months now, to read about reverb vst’s as much as i could.
I still have a Lexicon MPX-1 somewhere, but only used internal reverb on my vst’s which i mostly bypassed for the ambient mics to add some natural room reverb ( Garritan CFX, Walker Embertone, Ravenscroft, Hammersmith )

Then it became obvious that there is a world to win with a good reverb vst.
The last couple of years the overall quality is very good and can rival expensive hardware counterparts to some extent.

Today i bought Liquid Sonic Illusions. Based on convolution reverb impulses but you can change so much in such superb quality of reverb that i need to re-think my whole piano vst experience.
Iow an outstanding reverb vst like ‘illusions’ creates extremely good sounding rooms that sound so organic and natural that it has opened a whole new palette of possibilities i didn’t know existed a couple of months ago.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
CyberGene #2806301 01/25/19 12:23 AM
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I made the mods but how do you save them asking for administrator permission? Thanks MooganDavid


Rme BabyFace Pro, Dynaudio BM6-ll, Garritan CFX Full, Vienna Imperial, Truekeys American Grand, Modern U, Cantabile Solo 2, Hauptwerk Pipe Organ Vst, VB3 Hammond Vst and SPIN Leslie Vst, Yamaha CP33 and Novation Impulse 61
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2806504 01/25/19 10:40 AM
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Hi all Garritan fans. What laptop do you run it on? I ask because I'm playing with Keyscape, PianoTeq and XLN. Keyscape sounds nice when playing a MIDI file but it's impossible to play on my laptop, which isn't slow at all and should be enough according to the requirements for Keyscape ( I7 2.7GHz, 8GB RAM, 256 SSD). I think 2.7GHZ isn't enough to run keyscape when playing my Kawai MP11 SE. No problems with PianoTeq and XLN (which doesn't sound good for classical at all). So i wonder, can i play Garritan on my laptop or will i have the same problems as with Keyscape?

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Hr. #2806515 01/25/19 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Hr.
Hi all Garritan fans. What laptop do you run it on? I ask because I'm playing with Keyscape, PianoTeq and XLN. Keyscape sounds nice when playing a MIDI file but it's impossible to play on my laptop, which isn't slow at all and should be enough according to the requirements for Keyscape ( I7 2.7GHz, 8GB RAM, 256 SSD). I think 2.7GHZ isn't enough to run keyscape when playing my Kawai MP11 SE. No problems with PianoTeq and XLN (which doesn't sound good for classical at all). So i wonder, can i play Garritan on my laptop or will i have the same problems as with Keyscape?



Sorry to barge in but does the builtin shigeru ex on the MP11SE not satisfy for classical? Anything specific against it if so?

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
jamiecw #2806582 01/25/19 01:36 PM
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The Shigeru sound on the MP11SE is fine .. but i like playing different and experimenting piano sounds ..

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2807942 01/28/19 06:36 PM
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After reading this thread I bought the Lite version of Garritan CFX. I primarily use Native Instrument piano sounds but decided to give this a try after all of the great reviews.

At first I did not think I was going to like it but after playing it awhile it is really nice. Is the full version worth the upgrade?

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
dcupright #2807962 01/28/19 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dcupright
After reading this thread I bought the Lite version of Garritan CFX. I primarily use Native Instrument piano sounds but decided to give this a try after all of the great reviews.

At first I did not think I was going to like it but after playing it awhile it is really nice. Is the full version worth the upgrade?

I think so and there are a few threads here worth reviewing to see the views of better players.

There are several mic combinations and tweaks on CFX Full (including just running CFX Lite) but I don't like any of them for piano playing and practice. Just CFX Full>Classic>Default, with basically no tweaks (well I lower the volume of the ambient mic a bit to reduce room sound).

The close and ambient mics all have a lot of the Abbey Roads sound.

So if you don't like that room sound or are looking for a wide variety of piano sounds, Garritan CFX is not for you.

All mic perspectives have rather high noise floors.

Garritan is rather computer resource intensive but on my systems, if I can run one mic set, two or more run just as well (so if you can run CFX lite fine, CFX full likely works just as well. YMMV).

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
newer player #2807986 01/28/19 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by dcupright
After reading this thread I bought the Lite version of Garritan CFX. I primarily use Native Instrument piano sounds but decided to give this a try after all of the great reviews.

At first I did not think I was going to like it but after playing it awhile it is really nice. Is the full version worth the upgrade?

I think so and there are a few threads here worth reviewing to see the views of better players.

There are several mic combinations and tweaks on CFX Full (including just running CFX Lite) but I don't like any of them for piano playing and practice. Just CFX Full>Classic>Default, with basically no tweaks (well I lower the volume of the ambient mic a bit to reduce room sound).

The close and ambient mics all have a lot of the Abbey Roads sound.

So if you don't like that room sound or are looking for a wide variety of piano sounds, Garritan CFX is not for you.

All mic perspectives have rather high noise floors.

Garritan is rather computer resource intensive but on my systems, if I can run one mic set, two or more run just as well (so if you can run CFX lite fine, CFX full likely works just as well. YMMV).



Thank you very much. I really think it sounds nice so if i am still liking it in a few weeks I can see upgrading.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2896896 10/03/19 08:38 PM
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So I started this thread to figure out what sampled VST to buy if I was only going to buy one. I've totalled up all the votes/recommendations in the thread and the results are:
  • 14 - Garritan's CFX Concert Grand Full with the CyberGene re-pedaling fix
  • 3 - VSL Synchron Concert D-274
  • 3 - Embertone Walker Concert D
  • 3 - C. Bechstein Digital Grand
  • 2 - Ivory American Concert D
  • 2 - Galaxy Vintage D
  • 1 - VI Labs Ravenscroft 275
  • 1 - VSL Synchron Yamaha CFX
  • 1 - VSL Vienna Imperial
  • 1 - Ivory 2.5
  • 1 - Wavesfactory Mercury Fazioli
  • 1 - ImpactSoundworks Pearl Yamaha
  • 1 - Galaxy Grandeur
  • 1 - any of the Native Instruments pianos
  • 1 - any VST but with Liquid Sonics Illusions as its back-end convolution reverb engine
  • 1 - at least 4 sampled VSTs
  • 1 - every sampled VSTs out there

Well, due to a very nice student discount offer which is still running this weekend, I have bought all three of the VSL Synchron pianos: Concert D-274, Yamaha CFX, and Blüthner 1895.

So I should be done right? More than done as I originally set out to try the sampled piano world. Well, that was then and now is G.A.S. Since January, I have gotten myself an N1X with a very wonderful CFX sampled piano, and a new over-the-top DAW workstation to come in about 2 weeks, I estimate, and it will have 3 TB of SSD. Enough space for some more VSTs smile

So what should come next if I already have the 3 VSL Synchron pianos, and the N1X's own CFX (and Bosendorfer, which I never use since it just doesn't sound as good as the CFX with headphones, which is how I play my piano 95% of the time). What should be my 5th and 6th sampled pianos? Still Garritan? But then what, my friends, comes after that?


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"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano?
Tyrone Slothrop #2896903 10/03/19 08:58 PM
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What comes after that? It depends.

If you like that first batch of pianos then nothing comes next. At least not for a few years.

But if you're not satisfied with the first batch, GAS mandates that you buy up more items on that list ... until you're satisfied.

In the meantime the choices don't matter much. Fingers on the keys ... that's what matters.

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