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New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed #2795989
12/28/18 04:22 AM
12/28/18 04:22 AM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Hi everybody and thanks for accepting me.
I own a ROLAND Fp-30 (new model, i think it has the ph5 system) and in a moment of lack of reason I ordered on line the new Komplete NI s-88 mk2.
As I can’t afford both I decided to sell the ROLAND.
NI keyboard is not yet arrived.
Roland has a nice hard response Keybed.
On the pianist side do you think I have made a mistake ?
I am concerned about the fact that maybe the ROLAND fp -30 has a better keyboard compared to the Mk-2 s88 especially because at present times nobody still knows which kind.of Fatar is on board on the NI. Please note I AM NOT GLENN GOULD. smile
Thanks for reading all answers are welcome!
Matteo

Last edited by Matteocarlito; 12/28/18 04:23 AM.

Matteo Carlito
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Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2795994
12/28/18 04:44 AM
12/28/18 04:44 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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halherta Offline
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In my humble opinion the FP-30's action is much better than the Komplete NI s88 mk2. The Komplete NI S88 mk2 very likely has the TP100 Fatar action which is similar to Yamaha's GHS. Not bad, but in my opinion not as good as the FP-30's PHA-4 action.

Also I find the Komplete NI S88 to be somewhat overpriced for what you get...at least action wise.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796041
12/28/18 08:49 AM
12/28/18 08:49 AM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Thanks a lot...so maybe I did an horrible mistake in purchasing
The native mk2 s88...my god, it has been so expansive frown


Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796072
12/28/18 10:14 AM
12/28/18 10:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
thickfingers Offline
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Originally Posted by Matteocarlito
Thanks a lot...so maybe I did an horrible mistake in purchasing
The native mk2 s88...my god, it has been so expensive frown

I hear you. I've spent way too much on my piano quest, also. We're not all as money comfortable as we'd like.

Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: thickfingers] #2796111
12/28/18 12:02 PM
12/28/18 12:02 PM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Originally Posted by thickfingers
Originally Posted by Matteocarlito
Thanks a lot...so maybe I did an horrible mistake in purchasing
The native mk2 s88...my god, it has been so expensive frown

I hear you. I've spent way too much on my piano quest, also. We're not all as money comfortable as we'd like.


Thanks, wink anyway, my Native s88 Mk2 is on the way from south to north Italy where i live tomorrow, so i will check by myself. It feels really weird to me that an expansive keyboard with a Fatar keybed will be worst than the Roland Fp-30 (new model) i have, which is really incredible as piano feeling for the price it has. I will keep you all posted.


Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796120
12/28/18 12:16 PM
12/28/18 12:16 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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halherta Offline
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The Native s88 Mk2's biggest advantage is the NI integration. Also the Fatar action in it is not necessarily bad just not the greatest. You find something similar in the Dexibell Vivo P7 which is also quite expensive. Fatar actions make many decent / good actions as well that can be found in Nords so they're not intrinsically bad.

If NI integration is important for you, Native s88 Mk2 is probably a good deal.If action is more important the FP-30 is in my opinion better.

If I really wanted a decent Fatar action based midi controller that could potentially rival the FP-30's action, I'd consider the Studiologic SL88 Grand with its TP40Wood action or the Doepfer LMK2+/PK88 with their TP40GH actions. These options do not give you fancy LCDs/RGB LEDs with NI integration though, but will be plenty functional.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: halherta] #2796136
12/28/18 12:44 PM
12/28/18 12:44 PM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Originally Posted by halherta
The Native s88 Mk2's biggest advantage is the NI integration. Also the Fatar action in it is not necessarily bad just not the greatest. You find something similar in the Dexibell Vivo P7 which is also quite expensive. Fatar actions make many decent / good actions as well that can be found in Nords so they're not intrinsically bad.

If NI integration is important for you, Native s88 Mk2 is probably a good deal.If action is more important the FP-30 is in my opinion better.

If I really wanted a decent Fatar action based midi controller that could potentially rival the FP-30's action, I'd consider the Studiologic SL88 Grand with its TP40Wood action or the Doepfer LMK2+/PK88 with their TP40GH actions. These options do not give you fancy LCDs/RGB LEDs with NI integration though, but will be plenty functional.




Hi Halherta, and thank you so much for the very good explanation. I will wait for the Keyboard (tomorrow). Honestly i was just attracted by leds and monitor, it's not really necessary for me an integration. At least would be cool to change and modulate the pitch. But mainly i am a pianist. For some reasons the FP-30 has a "strong" and elastic response which is really great. Tomorrow i will open the Mk2 and cry, after crying i will think about what to do wink.
thanks again.


Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796186
12/28/18 02:13 PM
12/28/18 02:13 PM
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Sao Paul, Brazil
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EVC2017 Offline
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This topic is getting weird!


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: EVC2017] #2796296
12/28/18 06:36 PM
12/28/18 06:36 PM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
This topic is getting weird!


I hope i didn't said something wrong.
Anywy, to summarize:

1. Roland Fp-30 has a better keybed due to the users above
2. Native Kontakt S-88 Mk2 has a decent keyboard (Fatar, still nobody knows which model) but Roland is better.

If somebody can share more comments would be great.

Last edited by Matteocarlito; 12/28/18 06:37 PM.

Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796391
12/29/18 05:58 AM
12/29/18 05:58 AM
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Sao Paul, Brazil
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EVC2017 Offline
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Originally Posted by Matteocarlito
[quote=EVC2017]This topic is getting weird!
I hope i didn't said something wrong.


You did not say anything wrong.

My comment was just to tease you. It looks like you bought the NI komplete on the spur of the moment because it looked cool. Nothing wrong with it. However, you wrote you cannot afford keeping both so it seemed to me should have given more thought to the decision before purchasing.

You look to be wanting someone to validate your decision. That and the fact you seemingly subscribed to share this looked funny (in more than one sense wink ).


Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: EVC2017] #2796402
12/29/18 07:37 AM
12/29/18 07:37 AM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Originally Posted by EVC2017
Originally Posted by Matteocarlito
[quote=EVC2017]This topic is getting weird!
I hope i didn't said something wrong.


You did not say anything wrong.

My comment was just to tease you. It looks like you bought the NI komplete on the spur of the moment because it looked cool. Nothing wrong with it. However, you wrote you cannot afford keeping both so it seemed to me should have given more thought to the decision before purchasing.

You look to be wanting someone to validate your decision. That and the fact you seemingly subscribed to share this looked funny (in more than one sense wink ).


Yeah probably i did. Anyway the questions are still posing ; 1. Nobody really knows which kind of Fatar is onboard the new Komplete s-88 mk2. 2. nobody did made an actual comparison on other keyboards, but seems to Halberta (and he is probably right) that the cheap Fp-30 Roland is better 3. Nobody actually tried the Komplete s88 mk2 yet in the forum.

Regarding me, yeah, i think i was overwhelmed by "coolness". It's a disease of our times wink


Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796411
12/29/18 08:29 AM
12/29/18 08:29 AM
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Sao Paul, Brazil
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EVC2017 Offline
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Well, a suggestion I have is try to connect s88 to FP-30 (you will probably need to do it through a PC) and control FP30 with s88. This will allow you to feel the differences between them, by playing a piece on both keyboards.

As for being better or worse, if you follow this forum long enough, you will realize two people will have at least three opinions about a thing. So you will be the better judge about what suits you than anyone else in this forum.


Last edited by EVC2017; 12/29/18 08:36 AM.

Kawai ES8, Roland RD2000, Yamaha AG06 mixer, Presonus Eris E5 monitors, Sennheiser HD598SR phones.
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: EVC2017] #2796414
12/29/18 08:35 AM
12/29/18 08:35 AM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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"two people will have at least three opinions about a thing. So you will be the better judge about wha suits you than anyone else in this forum"
You are right not only about this forum, but about the whole human beings class wink

Native will arrive today. I will make my own judgement and share it here.
I will never been a real pianist and i never played an actual piano, so it will just be my two cents. wink


Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796418
12/29/18 08:44 AM
12/29/18 08:44 AM
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Tjong Offline
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The MK2 most likely has an adapted TP100LR (more damped to make te keybed more silent and therefor has a slight different feel) considering the price and the fact that it has fatal inside.

For what it is worth; I recently compared the FP-30, with the Korg D1 and the SL88 Studio (TP100LR). My first choice was the Korg D1 so I bought that one. Playing it for several hours I noticed the velocity response was not that good so I traded it for the SL88 Studio. This board is stiff but after a couple of hours play I'm already used to it and it feels very solid. Less sluggish than my Roland RP-301 (Which has a Ivory Feel G) which sits in the living room. And really important, a very nice velocity response.

I tested out lots of keybeds also in the more expensive area. One thing they all have in common: nothing plays like the real thing. I played my mother's early 20th century Grotrian Steinweg Upright a lot and I never found a digital board with a similar feel.

If you are fine with the action after some hours of getting used to it and all your techniques can be performed, just be happy with it and don't look back is my advise


Last edited by Tjong; 12/29/18 08:45 AM.
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Tjong] #2796429
12/29/18 09:37 AM
12/29/18 09:37 AM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tjong
The MK2 most likely has an adapted TP100LR (more damped to make te keybed more silent and therefor has a slight different feel) considering the price and the fact that it has fatal inside.

For what it is worth; I recently compared the FP-30, with the Korg D1 and the SL88 Studio (TP100LR). My first choice was the Korg D1 so I bought that one. Playing it for several hours I noticed the velocity response was not that good so I traded it for the SL88 Studio. This board is stiff but after a couple of hours play I'm already used to it and it feels very solid. Less sluggish than my Roland RP-301 (Which has a Ivory Feel G) which sits in the living room. And really important, a very nice velocity response.

I tested out lots of keybeds also in the more expensive area. One thing they all have in common: nothing plays like the real thing. I played my mother's early 20th century Grotrian Steinweg Upright a lot and I never found a digital board with a similar feel.

If you are fine with the action after some hours of getting used to it and all your techniques can be performed, just be happy with it and don't look back is my advise



Honestly i hoped for the TP/40 ;( my question Tjong for you is: am i ok with Sl88 Mk2 compared to the FP30 or i will notice a difference in worst with this switch? Please notice i play piano in a very light way. But still i prefer classical compositions. Thanks in advance!


Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796442
12/29/18 10:04 AM
12/29/18 10:04 AM
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Tjong Offline
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Mind though that according to the store where I got my SL88 Studio from told me that the Grand (TP/40) even feels a tad heavier than the Studio which already is quite heavy. They didn't have it on display so I could not testdrive it.


To my liking the FP-30 is way too light but that's what it is all about: personal preference. Sensory stuff is so subjective.
If you read reviews from people owning the Artruia Keylab 88 or NI S88 MK1 on the big selling stores, aside from some quality control issues on the Arturia ,generally speaking people are quite satisfied with the action.
If you read it from people here in the forum who compared it to DP's in the store, most people here will chose a DP from Kawai, Roland or Yamaha. Main points usually are repetition, triple sensor for pp repetitions and speed of key return.
I really wonder how many people active on this forum are running into limitations of any quality brand DP keybed because their skills outperform the action of the board. My guess is that you can count them on the same amount of hands you play with.

If you like light key action, the FP-30 will be your favorite I guess. If you happen to like the more heavier feel, a) you have far more options on your controller, b) imo the design of the S88 is way nicer (again very subjective).

Don't you have the right to return the Native Instruments if it is not to your liking?

Last edited by Tjong; 12/29/18 10:10 AM.
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Tjong] #2796453
12/29/18 10:46 AM
12/29/18 10:46 AM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tjong


Don't you have the right to return the Native Instruments if it is not to your liking?


i do will have the right to return that (at my own expenses...it's not Amazon unfortunatley) wink.
i am no expert, as this thread clearly shows ;), what i like in the Roland Fp-30 is the "hard" return of the keybed when you push it. It is really hard to explain it, to explain what you feel when you push a key, Roland gives me maybe a false but a nice hard comeback. And the keyboard has a nice ivory feel.

If i wll get the same with the mk-2 s88 i will keep it. wink
Today is saturday, unfortunately there will be no delivery. i will keep you all posted on monday wink.


Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796615
12/29/18 08:39 PM
12/29/18 08:39 PM
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Ojustaboo Offline
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If you are into playing with the various NI instruments, having a NI keyboard and using their komplete kontrol software, it’s far far more user friendly than having another make midi controller etc.

If you aren’t really interested in NI instruments, personally I don’t think it’s worth buying.

I am heavily into synths as well as pianos, I have komplete 12 and their 61 note mk1 synth style keybed and I love it. I’ve had NI synths for years, I only got the S61 this year, and it makes browsing/editing their software so much easier and user friendly, I would never get rid of it.

I also own Arturia V6 synth collection, and those also have NKS (NI keyboard kontrol software, allowing NI keyboards to edit and browse the synths/patches etc) compatibility, hence I can browse their sounds and NI sounds all at the same time from the NI keyboard.

The Mk2 has extra features, but none are must haves for me (got mk1 cheap second hand) plus the mk2 series currently lacks MCU support, meaning the transport (play stop ) buttons will only work with DAWs specifically programmed to work with the mk2, whereas on the mk1, as it has MCU support, the buttons can be made to work with any DAW.

I wish I could find a cheap 88 note synth style non weighted keyboard to go alongside my 61 note, so I have access to the full note range, but for synth playing, I don’t want weighted. In the end I bought a cheap M Audio keystation 88, it’s sort of weighted, but is about as unweighted as I can find (and very poorly made, when I find a better full length keyboard, this will go)

Had I decided to keep playing the piano there too, I would have kept my Kawai MP7, but decided to sell it, and buy a stand alone DP to practice my piano on.

And while I suspect most will disagree with me, I found the action on the Casio PX870 to be far better for me than the MP7, and have had it for a few weeks now and am very happy with my purchase.

I must have a non weighted keybed to play my synths and organs on, so just having the NI 88 would be no good for me, as I would also need a separate keyboard to play the synths, hence I would be browsing and editing on one keyboard while playing on another. So for me, I don’t quite understand the NI 88 note market (sure NI have some nice pianos, but the only real point of their keyboards that I can see is the ease and editing of their synths etc)

However from what I read on NI forums, the people that have got mk2 88 are very happy with the feel. Was just going to quote one of their threads and saw that you started the thread smile

The only complaint I see is people complaining that NI still haven’t released the name/model of the keybed used in it, and a few people saying they won’t purchase until NI do.

So see what it feels like to you.

I know I will be happy with my PX870 for many years. The thing is, it’s easy to read forums such as this one and convince yourself that as you haven’t got Kawai etc, you must be missing out, playing on a sub par keybed, making your practice harder etc. Sure that’s probably true on some keybeds, but I spent a while in a shop with numerous DPs from all the leading brands, and while if I had another few thousand to spend I probably would have bought something different, the PX870 felt the most comfortable for me (I tried Many other makes and models) and that’s all that matters.

Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2796652
12/30/18 12:19 AM
12/30/18 12:19 AM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Hi ojustaboo smile thanks for the answer.
I do use NI instruments, especially 8Dio strings and Shreddage guitar
I also have Cinesamples Tina Guo Cello which is incredible even if after
Two seconds of sustain the cello repeats the sample from the beginning smile I have some trumpets who allow the cc#11 mapping even if I don’t know how to set it but I will figure it out once I will have the NI mk2
S88. The fact that Native does not declare the specs is a bad sign because probably we are talking of a renewed fatar tp/100..anyway on Monday I will test it and let you know


Matteo Carlito
Re: New NI komplete mk2 vs new Fp-30 Keybed [Re: Matteocarlito] #2807135
01/26/19 07:29 PM
01/26/19 07:29 PM
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Matteocarlito Offline OP
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Hello everybody.
I had to wait 20 days to get a Native Komplete Kontroller s88 MkII
It's really hard to get one.
Anyway. Compared to the original S88 there is a slight improvement, but reaaaaaly slight. It seems the usual Fatar...
The keybed response is pretty soft, heavy and sluggish. But it's ok, it works.
I will sell my Roland fp-30 very sadly, but that's life.
it is worth to buy? if you use synths and the komplete eco-system, yes.
Otherwise, better focus to a better keybed.


Matteo Carlito
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