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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: akc42] #2824903 03/10/19 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by akc42


N1X action

The difference between the N1X hybrid action and the GF2 action in my Kawai was massive. The N1X gave me all the tactile feedback I wanted. In particular as you press the key down you feel like you are pushing against hammer weight and with an escapement. Compared to it the GF2 action feels sluggish. Fast trills were so much easier on the N1X. One thing I did notice though was that black keys felt very narrow and it took me 2 or 3 minutes to get used to it and for my aim on big jumps to be perfect (One of the pieces I was playing was a Chopin Nocturne with big left hand jumps all the way through).

NV10 action

The NV10 felt almost the same as the N1X and I couldn't tell them them apart. The only real difference was the width of the black keys which were the same as my CA67 and so didn't have the issue of not being able to play the Chopin immediately I sat down at it.


I am surprised you say you couldn't tell the two actions apart. I tried the same 2 pianos as I am looking for a replacement for my ancient Clavinova. I felt there were differences in the actions, and I am a very rusty pianist.

I went into the comparison wanting/expecting to prefer the Yamaha but on the day I was more comfortable with the Novus, largely because it felt lighter and so more similar to the (very light) touch of the old Clavinova. I also had a quick play on the acoustic Kawai and Yamaha in the room next door and that showed a similar difference so each hybrid was a pretty faithful reproduction of the manufacturer's acoustic.

The trouble is that it is several years since I have regularly played an acoustic so I don't think I am the best judge of the different actions. Many years ago I learned to play on a Yamaha Grand so I must have been happy with the heavier action then.

Other than the touch I prefered the N1X but it would be a gamble to buy the N1X and hope that I got used to the firmer action.

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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: percy64] #2825025 03/10/19 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by percy64
I am surprised you say you couldn't tell the two actions apart. I tried the same 2 pianos as I am looking for a replacement for my ancient Clavinova. I felt there were differences in the actions, and I am a very rusty pianist.

I went into the comparison wanting/expecting to prefer the Yamaha but on the day I was more comfortable with the Novus, largely because it felt lighter and so more similar to the (very light) touch of the old Clavinova. I also had a quick play on the acoustic Kawai and Yamaha in the room next door and that showed a similar difference so each hybrid was a pretty faithful reproduction of the manufacturer's acoustic.

The trouble is that it is several years since I have regularly played an acoustic so I don't think I am the best judge of the different actions. Many years ago I learned to play on a Yamaha Grand so I must have been happy with the heavier action then.

Other than the touch I prefered the N1X but it would be a gamble to buy the N1X and hope that I got used to the firmer action.

On the piano forum here and on other reviews, the action on Kawai’s entry/mid-level grand pianos is consistently considered to be heavier than the equivalent Yamaha models. However, the concept of “heavy” can mean quite different things when describing the touch of an action. So, can you please elaborate on the differences you experienced?

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2825231 03/11/19 05:40 AM
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N1X was expected to be back in stock on March 21st but today it's listed as March 29th... frown Anyway, I'm fully dedicated to finishing up my DIY controller, so hopefully should have something to play on before I receive the Yamaha.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: arc7urus] #2825283 03/11/19 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by arc7urus

On the piano forum here and on other reviews, the action on Kawai’s entry/mid-level grand pianos is consistently considered to be heavier than the equivalent Yamaha models. However, the concept of “heavy” can mean quite different things when describing the touch of an action. So, can you please elaborate on the differences you experienced?

In the simplest terms I think it takes significantly less force to depress the keys on the Kawai action than on the Yamaha. The presence of a volume control on the Hybrids makes it harder to say whether it requires more force actually to play a note of equivalence "loudness".

Being used to the old Clavinova that is very light in every sense the Kawai action felt more similar and I found it easier to adapt. But my concern is that similarity to the Clavinova is not necessarily a positive when choosing a Hybrid as a replacement!

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: percy64] #2825356 03/11/19 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by percy64

In the simplest terms I think it takes significantly less force to depress the keys on the Kawai action than on the Yamaha.


I believe I noticed that too when trying out the different instruments.

Something else I noticed was that the let off on the the NV10 was almost indiscernible regardless of how slowly I pressed the key. The dealer acknowledged it also and even took the fall-board off and was talking about different adjustments that can be made. Frankly, I don't know why that was because every Kawai acoustic action I've played (even their display action at the dealers) has a normal feeling let off. Perhaps it's not indicative of every Novus NV10.

The N1X has a very discernible let off.

I know this is all very subjective, but I would say the the N1X action feels more acoustically authentic to me. Perhaps because I'm used to playing Kawai acoustic pianos that have heavier actions.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 03/11/19 10:23 AM.

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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: David B] #2825410 03/11/19 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by David B
Frankly, I don't know why that was because every Kawai acoustic action I've played (even their display action at the dealers) has a normal feeling let off. Perhaps it's not indicative of every Novus NV10.

Indeed, it isn't. smile

Interestingly, over in the acoustics forum, someone posted that his daughter had tried some (older) acoustic Kawais and the Novus, and while she liked the sound of the Novus, she thought it was stiffer than the older acoustics. So there seem to be anecdotes in both directions. (As it always seems to be the case when someone says that model/brand X has a "heavier" action than model/brand Y. You'll inevitably find someone saying exactly the opposite. smile).

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: David B] #2825411 03/11/19 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by David B


I believe I noticed that too when trying out the different instruments.

Something else I noticed was that the let off on the the NV10 was almost indiscernible regardless of how slowly I pressed the key. The dealer acknowledged it also and even took the fall-board off and was talking about different adjustments that can be made. Frankly, I don't know why that was because every Kawai acoustic action I've played (even their display action at the dealers) has a normal feeling let off. Perhaps it's not indicative of every Novus NV10.

The N1X has a very discernible let off.

I know this is all very subjective, but I would say the the N1X action feels more acoustically authentic to me. Perhaps because I'm used to playing Kawai acoustic pianos that have heavier actions.

God Bless,
David

So you felt that the Novus action felt different to the Kawai acoustic?

I gather you are now the proud owner of an N1X - to what extent was the difference in actions part of your decision

Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: percy64] #2825412 03/11/19 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by percy64

So you felt that the Novus action felt different to the Kawai acoustic?

I gather you are now the proud owner of an N1X - to what extent was the difference in actions part of your decision


There were several factors. I'll PM you the details.

God Bless,
David


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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2840139 04/17/19 09:02 AM
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Thanks for the Bonner’s review akc42!

So, if I am reading your paragraph correctly about the black key widths between the two pianos it sounds like the black keys on the N1X are slightly narrower than the Novus? That would be good for me because I do have a crooked right-hand 4th finger that can cause me problems by playing thick black Keys.


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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2921011 12/08/19 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by sullivang
I suppose for the time being a MIDI translator script could convert the aftertouch into a single note-off.

I'm for creating a general MIDI translator remapping script. Something fast, with low latency. Who wants to start the open source Github project for this smile Such a script could do a lot of other things too smile

This could be a collaborative PW project (at least for those PW members who know their way around source code smile )

I was scrolling through this thread and saw your suggestion Tyrone. This is exactly what I'm looking for. It's a great idea and I would love to help out, but unfortunately I don't know how to code..... Couldn't this be done in Pianoteq somehow under "Global MIDI mapping"?


"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: johanibraaten] #2921043 12/08/19 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by johanibraaten
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by sullivang
I suppose for the time being a MIDI translator script could convert the aftertouch into a single note-off.

I'm for creating a general MIDI translator remapping script. Something fast, with low latency. Who wants to start the open source Github project for this smile Such a script could do a lot of other things too smile

This could be a collaborative PW project (at least for those PW members who know their way around source code smile )

I was scrolling through this thread and saw your suggestion Tyrone. This is exactly what I'm looking for. It's a great idea and I would love to help out, but unfortunately I don't know how to code..... Couldn't this be done in Pianoteq somehow under "Global MIDI mapping"?

Turns out that forum member Audetto already has something like this, which is why I never started my own project. Take a look at that entire thread on that particular item.

Also there are some existing MIDI translators like Bome's MIDI Translator and MIDI-OX (old, but supposedly stable).


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Re: Yamaha N1X released at NAMM [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2921135 12/09/19 02:31 AM
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Great, thank you! This is what I've been looking for.


"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein
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