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Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2805579
01/23/19 04:49 PM
01/23/19 04:49 PM
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Kitsap County, WA
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kokatia, I'm not sure what your parameters are or what your location is. I have been grand shopping in my area (pacific northwest) and I've pretty much landed on wanting at least 6'. With that caveat, what I have tried, and I've tried many, the best I've found for under 15k was a used Yamaha C3. There are actually 2 in the area. The only others even close were two different Schimmel's I found, and though they were nice, I was partial to the Yamaha's. At least for me, if that were my price range, I would get a C3.

After all my trials, I'm personally going to save for a bit longer to up my price range in to "dream piano" territory.


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Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2805590
01/23/19 05:05 PM
01/23/19 05:05 PM
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Had a similar experience to OP but in England. I got exactly what I wanted for exactly within my budget eventually but I spent around three years looking on and off and visited a lot of pianos during that time. Sure I could have spent more and bought something sooner, but many of the pianos I saw in that price range were what I would describe as nice instruments but lacking a "wow" factor somewhere for me but they would be perfect for someone else with different search criteria. I just knew that if I waited patiently eventually one would come along with the right combination of magic ingredients for me.

Bottom line -
(i) if you can afford a Feurich or Hailun (or other Chinese piano of similar quality though these seem to be consistently mentioned as the benchmark to beat in terms of new Chinese pianos) in the 178cm or so range and fall in love with one, there seems little reason to pass.
(ii) if you fall in love with a used Yamaha or Kawai that has been well cared for and is in your budget you have a fairly safe bet it will be good. I tried quite a few and they were all very similar. None quite had the "wow" factor for me, they all just seemed a bit lacking in personality or individuality but then I was looking for a special piano that would be a lifelong purchase. If you don't mind changing after a few years there would be little reason not to go with whatever you saw first that you liked as many others in that price bracket and size will be very similar.
(iii) if you want a restored vintage piano it gets more challenging as you can pay through the nose for something that has been tidied up but is still far from pristine condition, or pay any amount for a piano rebuilt as new but then face the question whether you are getting a "Steinway" or a "Steinwas" ie how much of the piano is original and how much is down to the rebuilder. You do have to shop around which is what took me the time.

Incidentally someone mentioned mid-sized Steionway's in Cinncinati selling for $20,000 - count yourself lucky! A decent but elderly Steinway in the UK of similar size might cost two or three times that much after taking exchange rates into account. Steinway do seem to be uniquely expensive here compared with what similar-tier pianos of other brands sell for.

Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2805630
01/23/19 06:45 PM
01/23/19 06:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,241
Louisiana
Jolly Offline
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Originally Posted by kokatla
I've been trying to find a decent grand for under 15k, used mostly, and it's been a miserable experience.

The few piano that qualify I've actually had the place sell on me in a very small time frame, like a matter of hours. The rest have had unresponsive actions and other issues. I am an advanced classical player, so I'm probably more picky than the average buyer.

On top of that, most dealers have a you get it you deal with it mentality. Very few that offered warranties of any kind. Sometimes I'll be looking for a certain model and the sales people will refuse to give pricing over email due to "competitor price watching." The whole thing has been so exhausting as someone on a budget.

What is a person to do who cannot afford a $30k grand but has requirements that the piano can actually hold up to a "beating"? Do I just accept there is nothing out there for me without getting extremely lucky?


NOTICE: I don't know these guys from Adam, but this is a dealer with a piano suitable for a pretty decent pianist:

https://www.pianocenter.com/gallery/grand-pianos/item-17341-kawai-510-model-rx-2-built-2001

$12,631. And if they've got one, there are others out there. If I can dig and find them in what Sam Bennett politely called a "piano desert", I know you can, too. Keep digging, your piano is right around the corner.


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Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2805676
01/23/19 08:31 PM
01/23/19 08:31 PM
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There is a used 2008 Hailun 6'5'' at Picarzo piano for 14,950.

https://www.picarzo.com/pianos-for-sale/grand-pianos/2008-hailun-model-198-grand-piano

I almost bought that piano, but ended up buying a new Hailun 178 instead.


Hailun HG-178
Yamaha CP5
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: Chess06] #2805740
01/24/19 04:31 AM
01/24/19 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Chess06
There is a used 2008 Hailun 6'5'' at Picarzo piano for 14,950.

https://www.picarzo.com/pianos-for-sale/grand-pianos/2008-hailun-model-198-grand-piano

I almost bought that piano, but ended up buying a new Hailun 178 instead.


I will say that Hailun does not look like any chinese piano Ive ever played. I might have to at least try one.

To above posts, I agree Yamaha C series is a sure bet. I found something decent I am seeing Friday. There is also a decent rebuilt Steinway A3 I am going to look at. Maybe my luck is changing. I will update


Last edited by kokatla; 01/24/19 04:32 AM.
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2805882
01/24/19 11:07 AM
01/24/19 11:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 14,241
Louisiana
Jolly Offline
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Louisiana
Originally Posted by kokatla
Originally Posted by Chess06
There is a used 2008 Hailun 6'5'' at Picarzo piano for 14,950.

https://www.picarzo.com/pianos-for-sale/grand-pianos/2008-hailun-model-198-grand-piano

I almost bought that piano, but ended up buying a new Hailun 178 instead.


I will say that Hailun does not look like any chinese piano Ive ever played. I might have to at least try one.

To above posts, I agree Yamaha C series is a sure bet. I found something decent I am seeing Friday. There is also a decent rebuilt Steinway A3 I am going to look at. Maybe my luck is changing. I will update



Would help a heckuva lot to know where you're at.

It might not be your taste or quite within budget, but the Cunningham(made for them by Hailun) does not sound at all like a Hailun. If you are on the East Coast, I'd certainly take a look at that piano.


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Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: Jolly] #2805892
01/24/19 11:21 AM
01/24/19 11:21 AM
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PA
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Originally Posted by Jolly
Originally Posted by kokatla
Originally Posted by Chess06
There is a used 2008 Hailun 6'5'' at Picarzo piano for 14,950.

https://www.picarzo.com/pianos-for-sale/grand-pianos/2008-hailun-model-198-grand-piano

I almost bought that piano, but ended up buying a new Hailun 178 instead.


I will say that Hailun does not look like any chinese piano Ive ever played. I might have to at least try one.

To above posts, I agree Yamaha C series is a sure bet. I found something decent I am seeing Friday. There is also a decent rebuilt Steinway A3 I am going to look at. Maybe my luck is changing. I will update



Would help a heckuva lot to know where you're at.

It might not be your taste or quite within budget, but the Cunningham(made for them by Hailun) does not sound at all like a Hailun. If you are on the East Coast, I'd certainly take a look at that piano.


+1


Barbara
...without music, no life...
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: Jolly] #2805895
01/24/19 11:24 AM
01/24/19 11:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Central PA
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I was at Cunningham last week and played their 5'10" and it was very nice. Hard rock maple inner rim was gorgeous and the tone was bright and warm. Quoted me $16k and seemed very reasonable, worth checking out if you are in the area.

Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2805926
01/24/19 11:59 AM
01/24/19 11:59 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 424
North of Los Angeles
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Not sure where you are located but in the LA basin there will be plenty of nice piano's for 15k. You should be able to find a RX-2 for less then that.


When you play, never mind who listens to you. R.Schumann.

Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: johnstaf] #2805971
01/24/19 01:12 PM
01/24/19 01:12 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 148
Norway
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
On the Continent you can get Bƶsendorfers for next to nothing as well if you know where to look.


Where does one look? Asking for a friend.


Currently searching for my new upright
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2806031
01/24/19 02:37 PM
01/24/19 02:37 PM
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Posts: 3,992
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Hakki Offline
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I was referring to Haulin pianos. You might a new 178 about your budget.
I remember reading positive posts about this brand.

Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: Hakki] #2806056
01/24/19 03:06 PM
01/24/19 03:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
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Jethro Offline
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Originally Posted by Hakki
I was referring to Haulin pianos. You might a new 178 about your budget.
I remember reading positive posts about this brand.


I remember reading those post about a specific Hailun a couple of years back. The matter was resolved and apparently the CEO apologized, but I'm wondering if this is a common occurrence with this brand. No further explanation was given about this buyers "rust" or discoloration issue. I think Hailuns are supposed to have good reputation here and maybe there are other posts that explain what this particular purchaser was dealing with but as a casual observer I would my due diligence with any brand. I am sure there are issues as well with some Kawai's and Yamahas so I am not singling out one company but this particular post gave me pause.

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2659302/1.html

Anyone know what the issue was with this particular Hailun? Is that rust?

Last edited by Jethro; 01/24/19 03:10 PM.
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2806122
01/24/19 05:30 PM
01/24/19 05:30 PM
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I remember reading that post as well. I have to say, I have had an exemplary customer experience with Hailun. When I bought my 178 in 2017, I was very happy with the piano overall, but I was getting buzzing strings that seemed to be getting worse over time. Picarzo Pianos has amazing customer service and covered the cost of multiple RPT/MPT opinions, all of which concluded that the issue was the strings themselves.

Picarzo Pianos forwarded a letter I wrote describing my issue to Hailun USA , and they were very responsive. After a phone discussion, they decided to replace the piano under the Hailun dream assurance plan.

I was updated along the way as my new Mahogany 178 was being finished in the factory, and they covered delivery cost. I could not be happier with the piano now.

Just one experience, but I honestly can't say that there was anything Hailun could have done better from the customer service standpoint.


Hailun HG-178
Yamaha CP5
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2806286
01/24/19 11:51 PM
01/24/19 11:51 PM
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Posts: 5,256
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Do whatever you need to do to reduce any feelings of urgency.
Play lots of pianos.


Learner
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: oivavoi] #2806309
01/25/19 12:57 AM
01/25/19 12:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,634
Dublin
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Originally Posted by oivavoi
Originally Posted by johnstaf
On the Continent you can get Bƶsendorfers for next to nothing as well if you know where to look.


Where does one look? Asking for a friend.


Generally places in Eastern Europe where Bƶsendorfers were very common.

Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: oivavoi] #2806370
01/25/19 05:08 AM
01/25/19 05:08 AM
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Posts: 92
Vienna, Austria
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Originally Posted by oivavoi
Originally Posted by johnstaf
On the Continent you can get Bƶsendorfers for next to nothing as well if you know where to look.


Where does one look? Asking for a friend.


Local platforms like craigslist in the US. In Austria that would be willhaben.at which offers you a lot of Bƶsendorfers.

Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: kokatla] #2806468
01/25/19 09:56 AM
01/25/19 09:56 AM
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Kentucky
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I live in an area with a lot of older population. My RPT told me he has had some very good luck finding good pianos via PRINT ads - local newspapers, and the little flyers that are exclusively ads.

He thought that the reason was that some people not comfortable with computers place ads there first, and the dealers who cherrypick Craigslist donā€™t bother going through them. Donā€™t limit your search to electronic sources.


MH1963

'63 Mason & Hamlin Model A
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Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: MH1963] #2806477
01/25/19 10:09 AM
01/25/19 10:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,286
In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by MH1963
I live in an area with a lot of older population. My RPT told me he has had some very good luck finding good pianos via PRINT ads - local newspapers, and the little flyers that are exclusively ads.

He thought that the reason was that some people not comfortable with computers place ads there first, and the dealers who cherrypick Craigslist donā€™t bother going through them. Donā€™t limit your search to electronic sources.



I second the statement. Many of the small local papers have a "musical instrument" section.


[Linked Image]
Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: johnstaf] #2806715
01/25/19 07:10 PM
01/25/19 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
I got a C.Bechstein Model B 203. It came from England, where there is an oversupply of old ones. On the Continent you can get Bƶsendorfers for next to nothing as well if you know where to look.


Tell me please how can I get Boesendorfer for next to nothing, which does not need lots of repair and rebuild. Will buy one fast. Can be in PM

Re: Buying a grand on a budget has been a miserable experience [Re: MrKaramba] #2806778
01/25/19 11:50 PM
01/25/19 11:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,634
Dublin
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Originally Posted by MrKaramba
.
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I got a C.Bechstein Model B 203. It came from England, where there is an oversupply of old ones. On the Continent you can get Bƶsendorfers for next to nothing as well if you know where to look.


Tell me please how can I get Boesendorfer for next to nothing, which does not need lots of repair and rebuild. Will buy one fast. Can be in PM


You need to go to Austria or Eastern Europe, and spend a lot of time searching shops and going through small ads. It's good for people who live there, but not so much for those who don't. If you want a cheap Bƶsendorfer, it will most likely be 100 or more years old. You also need to make sure it has a modern action and not a Viennese one.

OE1FEU, who is in Vienna, has listed a website which has some fairly cheap Bƶsendorfers listed at the moment.

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