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Re: Debussy plays Clair de Lune [Re: prout] #2805365
01/23/19 08:13 AM
01/23/19 08:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,165
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bennevis Offline
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B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,165
Originally Posted by prout
bennivis: The techology of Voyager is 47 years old. It classifies as 'antique' and yet, reproduces a useable signal from the original sensor data.

The Voyagers were launched in 1977, and used the most up-to-date computer technology then available. Computers have been around since the Second World War. Apollo 11 sent men to the moon in 1969. How many years of refinement in technology is that?

When 78s and piano rolls were born, no-one even had an inkling of computers.

Quote
As a scientist I would be happy to compare and discuss the commonalities between chalk and cheese. Both contain calicium, chalk in the of calcium carbonate, and cheese in the form usually of calcium lactate. Both are readily absorbed by the body and contribute to several areas of human health. Regarding apples and oranges, both are excellent sources of potassium and vitamin C, so, not a lot of difference. I am not sure why you used such similar items to try and discredit my observations.

If you still want to keep on that tack, I could go on & on, because part of my study & training for my job includes the workings of the human body, health and nutrition - as well as several science subjects -, but I won't, because it's really getting silly.

Let's just say that cheese is an organic substance made from milk, and contains fat, casein and lactose. Chalk is none of that. Any similarity is purely coincidental.

Quote
I do have an agenda to push. It is to encourage people to experience new things. .

That is very commendable, but you're going about it by adopting a totally unfounded air of superiority (if anyone disagrees with me, they are uneducated/stupid/asleep, blah, blah) and using spurious arguments - including the selective use of 'evidence' to back up your arguments. Why do you think that everyone else have closed minds?

I suggest you listen to the recordings of Ricardo Viñes, who was the favorite interpreter of both Ravel and Debussy, if you want some idea of how their music was played during the composers' lifetime, rather than keep looking around for more fake videos where the playing is unrhythmic, just to back up your agenda. Viñes recorded quite a lot of Debussy. There is also a video of him talking about his friend.

BTW, if you've read some of my past posts, you'll know that I'm all for freedom of interpretation - which was why I mentioned Raoul Koczalski (have you listen to his playing yet?), Alfred Cortot and the like.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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Re: Debussy plays Clair de Lune [Re: NobleHouse] #2805551
01/23/19 03:45 PM
01/23/19 03:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
Originally Posted by bennevis
Originally Posted by GoldmanT
I don't have time to dig up the relevant thread at the moment (will find it later) but it's pretty much accepted Debussy didn't record Claire de Lune on the piano roll system - he recorded maybe ten (?) pieces, mainly later pieces like the preludes, but not this one.

This whole thread is based on a fake recording?? grin


Well then, never mind my comments cool


Can we say for sure if it's real or fake? So far the arguments against this being real are that it's not part of another group of Debussy's Welte rolls that have a good provenance, and that the solo doesn't sound like the way he comps for singers.

But does it sound like anyone else who was actively making Welte rolls? Granted the chronology issue does rule out Christopher Marlowe.... ;-)


-- J.S.

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Re: Debussy plays Clair de Lune [Re: prout] #2805604
01/23/19 05:43 PM
01/23/19 05:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 266
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GoldmanT Offline
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 266
From this link: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...e-lune-very-interesting.html#Post1312325

"According to the above, the only person ever to record Debussy's Clair de lune on the Welte-Mignon system was Cecile de Horvath. Five pianists recorded it on other types of piano rolls; in alphabetical order: George Copeland, Herbert Fryer, Walter Gieseking, Yolanda Mero, and Olga Samaroff. My guess is that the link starting off this thread is a recording by Walter Gieseking. It sounds like he might have played that way in his youth (sorry if that sounds rude, hehe), and I also notice that the works on the "Masters of the Piano Roll: Debussy plays Debussy" CD that were not (apparently) recorded by Debussy, are listed as recorded by either Gieseking or Rudolph Ganz. So maybe at some stage a mixture of Debussy, Gieseking and Ganz recordings were mistakenly attributed exclusively to Debussy?"

This link has a list of piano roll recordings: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...e-lune-very-interesting.html#Post1312325

Never tried searching for recordings though.....

To be honest though, a lot of the comments in this thread probably still stand when listening to the Debussy piano rolls he actually made, a lot of the nuanced notation and dynamics/tempo marks aren't followed as much as you might think by a composer who obviously put so much time into notating them that way.

Re: Debussy plays Clair de Lune [Re: prout] #2805639
01/23/19 06:57 PM
01/23/19 06:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
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JohnSprung Offline
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J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California

OK so the thing we're listening to exists. But who created it? Walter? Cecile? Rudolph? Claude? Somebody else? Has anyone heard the known Cecile version?


-- J.S.

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Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
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