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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2803399
01/18/19 06:34 AM
01/18/19 06:34 AM
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Posts: 3,717
Suffolk, United Kingdom
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EssBrace Offline
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I told myself over and over again, do NOT read this thread. I'm so very tempted by these recommendations for the CFX. I've listened to some demos and if I had one minor criticism it is that the highest octave sounds a bit thin and piercing. Otherwise I have to admit it is very beautiful.


Roland RD-1000 | Yamaha CLP 645 | Broadwood Barless 7' 6"
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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Alex C] #2803401
01/18/19 06:41 AM
01/18/19 06:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,408
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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CyberGene  Online Content
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted by Alex C
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Take in mind CFX Lite lacks exactly the ambience.


I have Garritan CFX Lite, and while it offers the Classic 'close mic' perspective, there's still plenty of room ambience present, albeit it's probably one of the less spacious ones. Every mic perspective in Garritan's CFX Full library is sampled/recorded with a certain amount of ambience/room.


This is true. I had been using Lite for months and was very happy with it, it doesn't lack ambience, etc. To be honest, I purchased the upgrade to Full for the binaural perspective which turned out not to my liking. However to my surprise the added distant mics to the close perspective (in comparison to Lite) add this spectacular Abbey Road ambience that can't be recreated neither through impulse responses (as in other VST-s) nor through DSP reverb algorithms. I believe when you sample a piano, it already contains some ambience (even if in a very small studio, or even when in anechoic chamber) which doesn't combine well with added reverb, regardless of reverb quality. For that reason alone I am glad I purchased the upgrade although I'm not using any of the two other perspectives. BTW, the modern one is absolutely useless IMO.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Alex C] #2803404
01/18/19 06:49 AM
01/18/19 06:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Originally Posted by Alex C
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Take in mind CFX Lite lacks exactly the ambience.


I have Garritan CFX Lite, and while it offers the Classic 'close mic' perspective, there's still plenty of room ambience present, albeit it's probably one of the less spacious ones. Every mic perspective in Garritan's CFX Full library is sampled/recorded with a certain amount of ambience/room.


And if you already using a VSTi setup why not route Garritan's output through an ambience/reverb filter? Do you find it is not needed or that it does actually not improve the sound?

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2803425
01/18/19 08:26 AM
01/18/19 08:26 AM
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Posts: 669
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karvala Offline
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Another vote for the VSL instruments here; I marginally prefer their CFX but the Steinway is also very good (now that the velocity/timbre mapping has been fixed). I'm a big fan of the Garritan CFX as well, though, so that's also a very respectable choice. The VSL instruments have slightly more realism, more adjustable sound and a greater sense of weight to me, but the Garritan instrument probably has the more beautiful sound, so it depends on your priorities really. The VSL instruments are also significantly more expensive (comparing full versions of each, which I think you need).


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: arc7urus] #2803523
01/18/19 11:52 AM
01/18/19 11:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 88
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Alex C Offline
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Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by Alex C
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Take in mind CFX Lite lacks exactly the ambience.


I have Garritan CFX Lite, and while it offers the Classic 'close mic' perspective, there's still plenty of room ambience present, albeit it's probably one of the less spacious ones. Every mic perspective in Garritan's CFX Full library is sampled/recorded with a certain amount of ambience/room.


And if you already using a VSTi setup why not route Garritan's output through an ambience/reverb filter? Do you find it is not needed or that it does actually not improve the sound?


I find that the best sound for Garritan CFX Lite is not to mess with the settings or add reverbs at all.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2804044
01/19/19 03:43 PM
01/19/19 03:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 263
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Grazilerimba Offline
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Love reading these threads, thanks for the input @ everyone.

I agree about the Garritan CFX, it is still the king, even though it has gotten a lot of great competition lately. Just some quick thoughts.

The Garritan CFX has one of the easiest and most convenient activation schemes while the VSL instruments use eLicenser - you need a dongle and you must install a driver and software for it.

The Bechstein Digital has great playability and it also has sampled pedal down samples, but lacks proper half pedaling and requires a powerful CPU. With a powerful CPU, you can make it sound pretty great. I bring up the Bechstein because I believe that it is very well suited for classical music regardless of its missing half pedal.

Synthogy Ivory 2 is outdated IMHO. Agree with Craig Richards' post, nice one. The missing pedal down resonances make a big difference, and once you've played VSTs that have real pedal down samples, it's hard to go back. The only good Ivory piano is the American Concert which has great playability on the level of Garritan's CFX and VSL's instruments IMHO, but doesn't sound too great compared to them. The American Concert D would also be suited very well for classical music.

I recommend against the Embertone Walker, it has quite a few problems that turned it into an instrument I rarely ever load up anymore. I personally believe the update isn't going to come any time soon, and even if it does, we should not support a company that deceives their customers (half-pedaling was explicitlcy advertised as a feature before the piano's release) and keeps making false promises after the fact ("the update is almost finished, it's gonna come out in a few weeks" ever since last summer). Same goes for Productionvoices regarding a similar set of circumstances.

PS: I would not classify buying the Garritan CFX (or the VSL CFX & Steinway, for that matter) as "G.A.S." - these are among the best sampled pianos as agreed upon by a pretty big group of people. Whatever G.A.S. you got in you starts after you bought those and still aren't satisfied for whatever reason, in that case you better get ready to lose a significant amount of money for nothing because no piano will ever fully satisfy you after that.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2804051
01/19/19 03:57 PM
01/19/19 03:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 150
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realovc22 Offline
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 150
Garritan Steinway is my best smile It is real Steinway sound. What do you think?

Bernard

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Grazilerimba] #2804074
01/19/19 05:06 PM
01/19/19 05:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 580
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slobajudge Offline
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slobajudge  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 580
Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
I recommend against the Embertone Walker, it has quite a few problems that turned it into an instrument I rarely ever load up anymore. I personally believe the update isn't going to come any time soon, and even if it does, we should not support a company that deceives their customers (half-pedaling was explicitlcy advertised as a feature before the piano's release) and keeps making false promises after the fact ("the update is almost finished, it's gonna come out in a few weeks" ever since last summer). Same goes for Productionvoices regarding a similar set of circumstances.

I am first to admit that after good behaviour I was throw up my controlled blood pressure on VI forum table about Emberton false update promises and beta patch promises for this piano that make me mad, but I will not go that far to not recommend this piano. Yes it has a problems, but compare to sound of this piano, all other mention here sounds pretty much too clean and boring and too digital for my ears. I don`t know what happened with Emberton but I am not ready to quit. Sound is just gorgeous especially in combination with more mics. I have a hope that someday they will fix problems.

Last edited by slobajudge; 01/19/19 05:11 PM.
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2804938
01/22/19 08:34 AM
01/22/19 08:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 523
UK
thickfingers Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 523
UK
Here you go, Sloth! Software Piano Shootout.
Get your phones on. It's definitive--losers be prepared to delete their precious also-rans, and switch. grin

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2804970
01/22/19 10:18 AM
01/22/19 10:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,826
Orange County, California
bSharp(C)yclist Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,826
Orange County, California
Interesting, I'll need to listen with headphones, but I felt that all 4 sounded pretty good.


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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: thickfingers] #2804995
01/22/19 11:29 AM
01/22/19 11:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline OP


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Originally Posted by thickfingers
Here you go, Sloth! Software Piano Shootout.
Get your phones on. It's definitive--losers be prepared to delete their precious also-rans, and switch. grin

The D and Petrof were the best. Grandeur and Keys sounded like toy pianos to me. Sorry to anyone who owns those. (well, maybe not too sorry wink )


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2805001
01/22/19 11:37 AM
01/22/19 11:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 523
UK
thickfingers Offline
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UK
Just popped up in my YouTube feed.
Only heard it on my ear buds, but they all sounded pretty much similar, to me. Sounded like real pianos, also.

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2805045
01/22/19 01:42 PM
01/22/19 01:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,826
Orange County, California
bSharp(C)yclist Offline
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Orange County, California
I listened again with headphones. They all sound the same to me.


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[Linked Image]
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2805050
01/22/19 01:50 PM
01/22/19 01:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,021
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
I listened again with headphones. They all sound the same to me.


Listening passively to a VST/recording doesn't do anything for me (most sound very good and convincingly real!). But when actually playing a VST, that's when I really notice whether a sound is real to me or not.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2805070
01/22/19 02:40 PM
01/22/19 02:40 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 86
Washington
vmishka Offline
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vmishka  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 86
Washington
If anyone wants further examples of Garritan CFX full, all but one of the videos I have made for my channel (linked in my signature) are played with Garritan CFX full using the settings described on Piano World by Philip Johnston. The one exception is the Mozart Piano Concerto K537 "Coronation" which used Ivory II Italian Grand (because it was the first recording and I didn't own Garritan CFX at that time).

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: thickfingers] #2805073
01/22/19 02:55 PM
01/22/19 02:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,776
Europe
JoeT Offline
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JoeT  Offline
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Europe
Originally Posted by thickfingers
Here you go, Sloth! Software Piano Shootout.
Get your phones on. It's definitive--losers be prepared to delete their precious also-rans, and switch. grin

Depending on the register and velocity, Pianoteq sometimes doesn't sound like an acoustic piano to me and sounds like something else instead.

The two sample libraries are both fine for rendering MIDI files, though playing such instruments live is a completely different story, most don't work very well in that scenario.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2805131
01/22/19 05:28 PM
01/22/19 05:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 165
Moscow, Russia
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Max_Forte Offline
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Moscow, Russia
Really, Pianoteq is the "Love or Hate" thing. smile

"The Grandeur" is a brother of "Vintage D", so playability is very similar if not at the same level, but personally, I prefer "Vintage D".


Casio PX-350
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
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Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: JoeT] #2805138
01/22/19 05:40 PM
01/22/19 05:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,328
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Raleigh, North Carolina
I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. At face value this seems to make no sense at all.quote=JoeT]The two sample libraries are both fine for rendering MIDI files, though playing such instruments live is a completely different story, most don't work very well in that scenario.[/quote]

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: Max_Forte] #2805154
01/22/19 06:20 PM
01/22/19 06:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 523
UK
thickfingers Offline
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thickfingers  Offline
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UK
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Really, Pianoteq is the "Love or Hate" thing. smile

I have to agree--there are those who love it, and those who hate that it's better than the sampled VI's. grin

Re: What is the best sampled VST for classical piano? [Re: thickfingers] #2805432
01/23/19 10:56 AM
01/23/19 10:56 AM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 69
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angmyu Offline
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Originally Posted by thickfingers
Originally Posted by Max_Forte
Really, Pianoteq is the "Love or Hate" thing. smile

I have to agree--there are those who love it, and those who hate that it's better than the sampled VI's. grin


never. I think it's your illusion. People who hate pianoteq hate pianoteq itself. They think the pianoteq is bad by a large margin than the sampled VI in terms of sound.

In my case, I like pianoteq in terms of playability but I don't like pianoteq users who disparage sampled VI. A few days ago, a pianoteq user said to a sampled VI user. 'Pianoteq is not for you.' Likewise, the sampled VI is not for him. Pianoteq users must live in their own kingdom without denigrating the sampled VI.

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