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Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2800437
01/10/19 10:04 AM
01/10/19 10:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,690
Pennsylvania
D
dmd Offline
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dmd  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,690
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Sarah65
Anybody have a good tip to practice hands independently? Appart no problem, but both hands together is chaos in my head, panic, completely lost. Especially my left hand starts to strumming with the rhythm but not even near the keys I should play. What should I do?



First choice: Take lessons from a teacher.

Second choice: If you are using a method book ….. start over …. you have been moving too fast.

If you are not using a method book, get one and start on page 1.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
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Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2800582
01/10/19 03:59 PM
01/10/19 03:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 514
Just outside London UK
akc42 Offline
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akc42  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 514
Just outside London UK
Originally Posted by Sarah65
Anybody have a good tip to practice hands independently? Appart no problem, but both hands together is chaos in my head, panic, completely lost. Especially my left hand starts to strumming with the rhythm but not even near the keys I should play. What should I do?


Just to answer this - and then say some more about Piano Marvel

The exercise I like to do to help hand independence is to play CDEFGFED repeatedly over and over in both hands BUT with one hand going twice as fast as the other. The slower hand should play staccato, the faster hand legato. Swap hands. If you are like me I found left hand slow right hand fast quite easy, but the other way around (left hand fast, right hand slow) much more difficult.
I spent a week or so doing this as preparation from Bach Invention No 8 and it worked really well. Since then I've not had a problem with hand independence.

As for Piano Marvel - my years subscription ran out at the end of December and after much debate with myself I decided not to renew it. I am very grateful that I used piano marvel to improve my technique up to the point where I got to level 6 (in both technique and method) - but was finding at that level that the constraints of the fixed rhythm of the piece and the turn around time between replays of a piece were too long. My teachers suggestion about playing just a few notes BEFORE a problem, but not after, then slowly go further and further back - but not past a problem area until it is completely solved is quite difficult with Piano Marvel. Doing that with paper music is easy.
So I had not used Piano Marvel for that area of playing for 6 months.

The area that I was still using it was in sight reading tests. I did debate quite a long time as to whether it was worth it just for that and in the end decided it was not - I still have many piano books at home to do sight reading with.

Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2800621
01/10/19 05:40 PM
01/10/19 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Sarah65 Offline OP
Full Member
Sarah65  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Sarah65
Anybody have a good tip to practice hands independently?

Do you mean practicing "hands together" - both hands playing? (just a small clarification, so I don't answer the wrong thing... smile )


Yes that is what I mean...my left hand always want to do the same as the right, its impossible to do different things. As long they go both in the same direction, after some practice; I manage. But total different direction and keys...no way, not even at 30 BPM. There are a lot of exercises in technique with both hands...0%. I'm so desperate.... frown


Piano Marvel level 4B and everything I like smile
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: akc42] #2800625
01/10/19 05:46 PM
01/10/19 05:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Sarah65 Offline OP
Full Member
Sarah65  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Originally Posted by akc42
Originally Posted by Sarah65
Anybody have a good tip to practice hands independently? Appart no problem, but both hands together is chaos in my head, panic, completely lost. Especially my left hand starts to strumming with the rhythm but not even near the keys I should play. What should I do?


The exercise I like to do to help hand independence is to play CDEFGFED repeatedly over and over in both hands BUT with one hand going twice as fast as the other. The slower hand should play staccato, the faster hand legato. Swap hands. If you are like me I found left hand slow right hand fast quite easy, but the other way around (left hand fast, right hand slow) much more difficult.


I can not play CDEFGFED with both hands, not even the same speed, I think there is something wrong in my brain :p I will try it....

Hope you wil stay here and guide us. You know so much. SASR in free version not possible?

Last edited by Sarah65; 01/10/19 05:48 PM.

Piano Marvel level 4B and everything I like smile
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2800626
01/10/19 05:48 PM
01/10/19 05:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Originally Posted by Sarah65
As long they go both in the same direction, after some practice; I manage. But total different direction and keys...no way, not even at 30 BPM. There are a lot of exercises in technique with both hands...0%. I'm so desperate.... frown

I think, outside of the PM system entirely, you should make for yourself some exercises like akc42 suggested and some contrary motion scales of maybe just one octave to play. Then play them so slow that you are commanding your fingers move for each note. There will be a slow enough speed when you can mentally direct the correct finger on each hand to press its key. Just keep slowing down until you get to that point. If it is 10 bpm, no one is watching except you. Through practice/repetition/tries, your brain will be retrained on this.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2800632
01/10/19 06:00 PM
01/10/19 06:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Sarah65 Offline OP
Full Member
Sarah65  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Through practice, your brain will be retrained on this. laugh You don't know my brain...but I will try...it is holding me back now in level 4. Had a problem with (left) chords also around "the bear over the mountain" made for myself 4 sheets of chords uploaded in Marvel and it worked. I think that contrary motion is a good exercise. Will upload some tomorrow. Thank you


Piano Marvel level 4B and everything I like smile
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: dmd] #2800641
01/10/19 06:27 PM
01/10/19 06:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Sarah65 Offline OP
Full Member
Sarah65  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Quote
First choice: Take lessons from a teacher.
Second choice: If you are using a method book ….. start over …. you have been moving too fast.
If you are not using a method book, get one and start on page 1.



Teacher is no option. I started in 2015 in Piano Marvel Method and technique and just finished level 3 (out 6) To fast? Don't think so. I have a fysical problem in my left hand, and my brain won't work like it should be :p


Piano Marvel level 4B and everything I like smile
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2800678
01/10/19 08:30 PM
01/10/19 08:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Originally Posted by Sarah65
I think that contrary motion is a good exercise. Will upload some tomorrow. Thank you

If you will be uploading the contrary scale exercises to PM, then you want to make sure you make the scales using all whole notes, so you can get the overall tempo low enough for this to work properly. You want to get the tempo so low you can even think about what to do with each hand if needed before having to move. Then gradually speed up.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2800714
01/10/19 11:27 PM
01/10/19 11:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Sarah65: One more thing I would like to suggest. A piano teacher on Reddit r/piano posted his strategy for learning hand independence. A complete document. See this here.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2800748
01/11/19 05:29 AM
01/11/19 05:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Sarah65 Offline OP
Full Member
Sarah65  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Thank y
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Sarah65: One more thing I would like to suggest. A piano teacher on Reddit r/piano posted his strategy for learning hand independence. A complete document. See this here.



Thank you, very helpfull


Piano Marvel level 4B and everything I like smile
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2800768
01/11/19 08:24 AM
01/11/19 08:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
T
TomInCinci Offline
Full Member
TomInCinci  Offline
Full Member
T

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 237
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Sarah65: One more thing I would like to suggest. A piano teacher on Reddit r/piano posted his strategy for learning hand independence. A complete document. See this here.


I like that document.

I wonder if it isn't common for people to have something they struggle with? Hand independence isn't my personal nemesis but I know what it's like to look at something and think I will never be able to play it...

Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2800849
01/11/19 01:11 PM
01/11/19 01:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,369
Portland, OR
tangleweeds Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012
tangleweeds  Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012

1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,369
Portland, OR
Great document, thank you!

I enjoy connecting my DP to my computer and turning it into an 88-key video game controller, meaning I’m quite intrigued with Piano Marvel, so expect me to pipe up in here from time to time. Feel free to feed this fascination while I dig through my moving boxes hunting down the essential cables. Unfortunately I haven’t played in so long I have no idea which layer of sediment they might be buried in.

I’m just hoping it’s not the layer that went into storage when I was hospitalized after moving (escaping abusive ex-roommate -> haste & overexertion -> hospitalization & near death shocked shocked shocked my friends stepped up and put the remainder in storage).

Last edited by tangleweeds; 01/11/19 01:13 PM. Reason: editing, doh!

Please step aside. You're standing in your own way.
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2800869
01/11/19 01:59 PM
01/11/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Sarah65 Offline OP
Full Member
Sarah65  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
This whole site is great, lots of useful material to practice. Thank you, Eli (Tyrone)

http://www.musicfun.net.au/index.htm


Piano Marvel level 4B and everything I like smile
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2801955
01/14/19 03:24 PM
01/14/19 03:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3
Vermont
Tharagleb Offline
Junior Member
Tharagleb  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3
Vermont
Very much a fan of PM, been using it for about a month, I am at about 2D in both Method and Technique. I think it keeps me motivated, I try to get in 30 minutes a day. That might not be a lot but it is significantly more than 0 minutes a day. smile


DP: Yamaha Clavinova CVP-401
Beginner: Piano Marvel lvl 3A, Adult Piano Adventures Book 1
Retired IT Developer

Today I am very fortunate to be able to practice the piano.
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Tharagleb] #2802008
01/14/19 05:21 PM
01/14/19 05:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Sarah65 Offline OP
Full Member
Sarah65  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Originally Posted by Tharagleb
Very much a fan of PM, been using it for about a month, I am at about 2D in both Method and Technique. I think it keeps me motivated, I try to get in 30 minutes a day. That might not be a lot but it is significantly more than 0 minutes a day. smile

Welcome to the group of PM fans. smile 30 minutes a day is sure enough. I read somewhere that you can practice better 15 minutes with full concentration than 2 hours just play some notes and make mistakes.


Piano Marvel level 4B and everything I like smile
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2802136
01/15/19 02:17 AM
01/15/19 02:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 121
Romania
M
Mosotti Offline
Full Member
Mosotti  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 121
Romania
I've just got a 1 year subscription. I think it's great. I will try to do 15 minutes per day. I found out that 15 minutes is actually almost double, because it only counts the actual practice...

Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Mosotti] #2802153
01/15/19 03:58 AM
01/15/19 03:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Originally Posted by Mosotti
I've just got a 1 year subscription. I think it's great. I will try to do 15 minutes per day.

Have fun with this!

Originally Posted by Mosotti
I found out that 15 minutes is actually almost double, because it only counts the actual practice...

Yes, the practice timer only tracks time when you are actively playing. Not between attempts of playing or when you are studying the score, etc.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2802353
01/15/19 06:07 PM
01/15/19 06:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Sarah65 Offline OP
Full Member
Sarah65  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 259
Wuustwezel Belgium
Today had a great experience in studying level 4a "Go Big C!" For the first time in 2.5 years I had the feeling that I was really playing the piano. I already liked that piece since the first practice, but now that I can play it completely it is really so much fun. I leave my hands free, no more cramped fingers that barely dare to release a key. Completely relaxed, loose wrist and shoulders. I have confidence and play it without looking at my hands. My hands move by themselves, both left and right. Truly an overwhelming experience. Thank you PM.
I know now that it is very important what you choose for playing/learning. Something that is pleasant will succeed much better than a dull or too fast or ugly piece.

That being said, the better it goes in "Method" the worse I score in the SASR test.... hahaha funny.


Piano Marvel level 4B and everything I like smile
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2802355
01/15/19 06:08 PM
01/15/19 06:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,369
Portland, OR
tangleweeds Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012
tangleweeds  Offline

Silver Supporter until Jan 11 2012

1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,369
Portland, OR
I finally made it work, what fun!!

It was slow going as I first had to order cables that match my new, updated devices (it's been a long time since I used my DP), then get all the electronics speaking to one another. I got discouraged last night and gave up, but with a fresh start this morning I finally made it all work! At least on the laptop, though I needed to cycle through restarting the MacBook, the DP, the browser, etc etc etc until everyone was on the same page.

I'm still waiting on the cable to connect the DP to the iPad, which will be much more convenient as it will fit on the music stand as opposed to the laptop sitting atop the DP's controls, screen precariously propped against the wall.

But again, what fun! I think I will purchase a subscription!

Last edited by tangleweeds; 01/15/19 06:09 PM.

Please step aside. You're standing in your own way.
Re: Other people do Piano Marvel? [Re: Sarah65] #2802412
01/15/19 08:03 PM
01/15/19 08:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,012
Originally Posted by Sarah65
Today had a great experience in studying level 4a "Go Big C!" For the first time in 2.5 years I had the feeling that I was really playing the piano. I already liked that piece since the first practice, but now that I can play it completely it is really so much fun. I leave my hands free, no more cramped fingers that barely dare to release a key. Completely relaxed, loose wrist and shoulders. I have confidence and play it without looking at my hands. My hands move by themselves, both left and right. Truly an overwhelming experience. Thank you PM.
I know now that it is very important what you choose for playing/learning. Something that is pleasant will succeed much better than a dull or too fast or ugly piece.

What wonderful progress! smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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