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Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: RubberFingers] #2801409
01/12/19 10:10 PM
01/12/19 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RubberFingers
humming


Yeah I mean I'm a massive fan of Krystian Zimerman, as people on here have probably noticed by now. Primarily for his out of tune humming, but aside from that, he's also quite a good piano player.

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Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: RubberFingers] #2801790
01/14/19 07:08 AM
01/14/19 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RubberFingers
Whatever facial ticks, choreography, flat fingers or curved, emotive gyrations, clothing, jewelry, humming, conducting or any other actions the pianist takes to play musically is fine with me.


+1

As all of this really has NOTHING to do with the sounds / music -- being produced by the player. grin

Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: ycdp88] #2801899
01/14/19 12:58 PM
01/14/19 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ycdp88
Originally Posted by RubberFingers
Whatever facial ticks, choreography, flat fingers or curved, emotive gyrations, clothing, jewelry, humming, conducting or any other actions the pianist takes to play musically is fine with me.


+1

As all of this really has NOTHING to do with the sounds / music -- being produced by the player. grin
But it is related to the visual aspect of the performance which is relevant if not the most critical part.

Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: pianoloverus] #2802015
01/14/19 05:29 PM
01/14/19 05:29 PM
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JoelW Offline OP
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by ycdp88
Originally Posted by RubberFingers
Whatever facial ticks, choreography, flat fingers or curved, emotive gyrations, clothing, jewelry, humming, conducting or any other actions the pianist takes to play musically is fine with me.


+1

As all of this really has NOTHING to do with the sounds / music -- being produced by the player. grin
But it is related to the visual aspect of the performance which is relevant if not the most critical part.

It's not the most important part, but easily 50%.

Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: JoelW] #2802019
01/14/19 05:31 PM
01/14/19 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by ycdp88
Originally Posted by RubberFingers
Whatever facial ticks, choreography, flat fingers or curved, emotive gyrations, clothing, jewelry, humming, conducting or any other actions the pianist takes to play musically is fine with me.


+1

As all of this really has NOTHING to do with the sounds / music -- being produced by the player. grin
But it is related to the visual aspect of the performance which is relevant if not the most critical part.

It's not the most important part, but easily 50%.

This is some nonsense right here.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: JoelW] #2802179
01/15/19 07:26 AM
01/15/19 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by ycdp88
Originally Posted by RubberFingers
Whatever facial ticks, choreography, flat fingers or curved, emotive gyrations, clothing, jewelry, humming, conducting or any other actions the pianist takes to play musically is fine with me.


+1

As all of this really has NOTHING to do with the sounds / music -- being produced by the player. grin
But it is related to the visual aspect of the performance which is relevant if not the most critical part.

It's not the most important part, but easily 50%.

Agree.

Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: JoelW] #2804767
01/21/19 04:57 PM
01/21/19 04:57 PM
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Before Christmas I was at a church service. And a man played "O Holy Night" with his body swinging gently L & R like a pendulum. I assumed this is what "flowing" in the tempo description means... your body flows with the music. Didn't look distracting from the audience although wouldn't make a difference to the sound.

Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: JoelW] #2805232
01/22/19 09:48 PM
01/22/19 09:48 PM
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What a ridiculous comment I wouldn't pay to see a robot, but an emotional pianist is just fine. You need to get over that.

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 01/22/19 09:49 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: NobleHouse] #2805236
01/22/19 09:55 PM
01/22/19 09:55 PM
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I thought she played wonderful. It was a very strange recording though because I heard crickets as though the orchestra was out in the woods or something.


Bösendorfer 170
Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2805262
01/23/19 12:28 AM
01/23/19 12:28 AM
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The piano player416:

Actually moving the body back and fourth, or even slightly doing so is something my master piano instructor insists on. He is also an orthopedic surgeon. It's all part of relaxing and flowing with the music. If you feel stiff while playing it is because you are not moving and just want to stiffen up instead. There is a big big difference in how the music sounds, much better when relaxed and swaying than when stiff and rigid.

Steve


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Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: thepianoplayer416] #2805278
01/23/19 02:07 AM
01/23/19 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by thepianoplayer416
Before Christmas I was at a church service. And a man played "O Holy Night" with his body swinging gently L & R like a pendulum. [...]


Then there's Stevie Wonder! Talk about swaying back and forth!

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2805446
01/23/19 11:23 AM
01/23/19 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Actually moving the body back and fourth, or even slightly doing so is something my master piano instructor insists on. He is also an orthopedic surgeon. It's all part of relaxing and flowing with the music.


I have a guess -- and your instructor may be the perfect person to determine if this is reasonable: I think that moving may recalibrate your proprioception. If you sit still, your brain is stuck with stale data from when you last moved your muscles.


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Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2805505
01/23/19 01:31 PM
01/23/19 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Actually moving the body back and fourth, or even slightly doing so is something my master piano instructor insists on. He is also an orthopedic surgeon. It's all part of relaxing and flowing with the music. If you feel stiff while playing it is because you are not moving and just want to stiffen up instead. There is a big big difference in how the music sounds, much better when relaxed and swaying than when stiff and rigid.
But some of the greatest pianists in history have been basically motionless with their bodies. This does mean I think this is the best way of playing as other great pianists have moved quite a bit while playing. I do not think non swaying automatically means stiff.

Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: pianoloverus] #2805522
01/23/19 02:35 PM
01/23/19 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
[...] I do not think non swaying automatically means stiff.


I agree. One can be perfectly relaxed while sitting quite still.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: pianoloverus] #2805524
01/23/19 02:37 PM
01/23/19 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Actually moving the body back and fourth, or even slightly doing so is something my master piano instructor insists on. He is also an orthopedic surgeon. It's all part of relaxing and flowing with the music. If you feel stiff while playing it is because you are not moving and just want to stiffen up instead. There is a big big difference in how the music sounds, much better when relaxed and swaying than when stiff and rigid.
But some of the greatest pianists in history have been basically motionless with their bodies. This does mean I think this is the best way of playing as other great pianists have moved quite a bit while playing. I do not think non swaying automatically means stiff.


I agree with you but never said not moving automatically means stiff. Horowitz is an example. When you see videos of him, he is pretty still but seems to have a deep innate feeling of relaxation about him.


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Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2805525
01/23/19 02:43 PM
01/23/19 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Actually moving the body back and fourth, or even slightly doing so is something my master piano instructor insists on. He is also an orthopedic surgeon. It's all part of relaxing and flowing with the music. If you feel stiff while playing it is because you are not moving and just want to stiffen up instead. There is a big big difference in how the music sounds, much better when relaxed and swaying than when stiff and rigid.
But some of the greatest pianists in history have been basically motionless with their bodies. This does mean I think this is the best way of playing as other great pianists have moved quite a bit while playing. I do not think non swaying automatically means stiff.


I agree with you but never said not moving automatically means stiff. Horowitz is an example. When you see videos of him, he is pretty still but seems to have a deep innate feeling of relaxation about him.
But you did say that your instructor insists on moving your body back and forth. Why insist on that if not doing it is not detrimental, i.e. does not cause stiffness? You also contrasted swaying and relaxed with stiff and rigid.

Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: pianoloverus] #2805563
01/23/19 04:10 PM
01/23/19 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Actually moving the body back and fourth, or even slightly doing so is something my master piano instructor insists on. He is also an orthopedic surgeon. It's all part of relaxing and flowing with the music. If you feel stiff while playing it is because you are not moving and just want to stiffen up instead. There is a big big difference in how the music sounds, much better when relaxed and swaying than when stiff and rigid.
But some of the greatest pianists in history have been basically motionless with their bodies. This does mean I think this is the best way of playing as other great pianists have moved quite a bit while playing. I do not think non swaying automatically means stiff.

I agree with you but never said not moving automatically means stiff. Horowitz is an example. When you see videos of him, he is pretty still but seems to have a deep innate feeling of relaxation about him.

But you did say that your instructor insists on moving your body back and forth. Why insist on that if not doing it is not detrimental, i.e. does not cause stiffness? You also contrasted swaying and relaxed with stiff and rigid.

Swaying is a way to overcome stiffness (in other words, tension) in the body for those who have it. For those who have not it's not necessary.

Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: JoelW] #2805646
01/23/19 07:17 PM
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I have a vague memory of being told that traditionally (going a long way back, I suppose) people were taught to play with a coin on the back of each hand - if it fell off, the pupil had poor technique. Perhaps (if this true) they were aiming for elegance and, of course, the dreaded using fingers like hammers technique. Certainly a far cry from today's performers - and was it John Field who commented that Liszt played like an animal?


regards
Pete
Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: pianoloverus] #2805665
01/23/19 08:11 PM
01/23/19 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve
Actually moving the body back and fourth, or even slightly doing so is something my master piano instructor insists on. He is also an orthopedic surgeon. It's all part of relaxing and flowing with the music. If you feel stiff while playing it is because you are not moving and just want to stiffen up instead. There is a big big difference in how the music sounds, much better when relaxed and swaying than when stiff and rigid.
But some of the greatest pianists in history have been basically motionless with their bodies. This does mean I think this is the best way of playing as other great pianists have moved quite a bit while playing. I do not think non swaying automatically means stiff.


I agree with you but never said not moving automatically means stiff. Horowitz is an example. When you see videos of him, he is pretty still but seems to have a deep innate feeling of relaxation about him.
But you did say that your instructor insists on moving your body back and forth. Why insist on that if not doing it is not detrimental, i.e. does not cause stiffness? You also contrasted swaying and relaxed with stiff and rigid.


pianoloverus: I give up with you again.

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 01/23/19 08:12 PM.

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Re: Performers should not show emotion [Re: JoelW] #2805697
01/23/19 10:26 PM
01/23/19 10:26 PM
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I think the important thing here is to maintain an ergonomic and relaxed demeanor.

If, like me, you are a fairly static player in terms of bodily movement then so be it. If you are a "swaying" player then so be it.

However, I can't understand this advice to try and encourage people to move more or move less. If you encourage a swayer to sit still, you're restricting them, and if you encourage a static to sway more you're just encouraging a contrived movement. I don't think teachers should be doing this.

There are maybe certain things to advise, for example, one must lean when playing for ergonomic reasons, both to the left and right, and forwards and backwards. Also, one cannot move so much that one is affecting the accuracy of one's playing.

As for describing static players as "robots" - ridiculous IMHO. That's just complaining that there's not enough bread and circus accompanying the performance. There's a certain intensity that goes with a static player that IMHO can amplify one's concentration on the music. Rubenstein, Hamelin, Petrov, Horowitz. Don't see too many complaints about those guys.

Static or swaying - both are ok in my book. I pay to hear the music and watch the hands. I don't care what the performer does with their body.

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