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Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: Rtje] #2801084
01/12/19 01:03 AM
01/12/19 01:03 AM
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Most people will not wear out an action in a few years, no matter how they play it, but a well-regulated action will improve your playing technique and enjoyment immensely. Generally, if it is done after a year or two's worth of playing, it will make a big improvement, and then only need touch-up occasionally after that.


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Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: Rtje] #2801092
01/12/19 02:32 AM
01/12/19 02:32 AM
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Rtje Offline OP
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Is there a way i can check the state of regulation it is in now?


U3 1985
Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: Rtje] #2801093
01/12/19 02:54 AM
01/12/19 02:54 AM
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The most important things to check are:

If you pull back on the hammer rest rail, the rail that is moved forward with the soft pedal, do the hammers move with it more than just barely?

If you press the keys very gently, so that the hammer falls back when the escapement releases instead of continuing towards the spring, does that happen uniformly and no more than 1/8" or 3 mm from the strings?

If you play the notes hard, do the hammers catch far enough away from the string that the vibration of the string does not hit them?


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Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: BDB] #2801137
01/12/19 07:20 AM
01/12/19 07:20 AM
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1. If you pull back on the hammer rest rail, the rail that is moved forward with the soft pedal, do the hammers move with it more than just barely?

- I think i don't understand this one. I can't seem to pull it back, at all.

2. If you press the keys very gently, so that the hammer falls back when the escapement releases instead of continuing towards the spring, does that happen uniformly and no more than 1/8" or 3 mm from the strings?

- No, it's more about 10 mm from the strings. It does seem te happen uniformly, except for the hammers with broken return spring cords, something i found out about and am not too happy with, these hammers rest on the strings when the keys are pressed like this.

3. If you play the notes hard, do the hammers catch far enough away from the string that the vibration of the string does not hit them?

- More than far away enough, not even close to hitting the strings vibration.


U3 1985
Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: BDB] #2801216
01/12/19 11:29 AM
01/12/19 11:29 AM
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BDB, have you seen neglected practice room uprights that are played five or more hours a day by pianists learning bravura music? 10 years and they are shot. Regulate, shape hammers, keep pinning proper and keybushings snug and they, can go 2 or 3 decades.


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Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: Rtje] #2801320
01/12/19 04:02 PM
01/12/19 04:02 PM
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Rtje,

Your piano needs quite a bit more than regulation and voicing (based on what you just wrote).

Pwg


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Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2801333
01/12/19 04:34 PM
01/12/19 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
BDB, have you seen neglected practice room uprights that are played five or more hours a day by pianists learning bravura music? 10 years and they are shot. Regulate, shape hammers, keep pinning proper and keybushings snug and they, can go 2 or 3 decades.


That is not "most people." For most people, their pianos will need minimal upkeep after the first regulation and voicing.

For those who use pianos constantly, they will wear down quickly, I find that you can only shape upright hammers so much before it becomes difficult or impossible to regulate the action properly. But considering the number of 50+ year old pianos that are still being used, and the condition they are in, what I said is true.


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Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: P W Grey] #2801385
01/12/19 08:08 PM
01/12/19 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
Rtje,

Your piano needs quite a bit more than regulation and voicing (based on what you just wrote).

Pwg


That doesnt sound good. frown could you be more specific?

Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: Rtje] #2801405
01/12/19 09:01 PM
01/12/19 09:01 PM
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Quote
If you press the keys very gently, so that the hammer falls back when the escapement releases instead of continuing towards the spring, does that happen uniformly and no more than 1/8" or 3 mm from the strings?



I think i misunderstood this question. I thought you were asking about the hammer distance from the strings after the hammer has fallen back. This is about 10 mm.


The falling back does indeed happen no more than 3mm from the strings, and uniformly. (except for the hammers that jam against the strings because of the broken hammer return spring cords)


U3 1985
Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: Rtje] #2801923
01/14/19 12:59 PM
01/14/19 12:59 PM
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Broken hammer return spring cords are a problem. Some of the hammers are returning due to the springs, and the ones with broken cords are returning due to the bridle straps. The repetition will not be the same.

About the hammer rest rail, you can pull rather hard on it and it will compress the felt that sets its position slightly. Slightly is all you need. The hammers should not go back with it more than a minimal amount. The distance they go back is the lost motion in the action.


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Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: Rtje] #2801964
01/14/19 02:43 PM
01/14/19 02:43 PM
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Hi Rtje,
In a vertical piano, the una corda pedal simply brings the hammers closer to the strings and reduces the velocity of their blow which makes a softer sound with fewer harsher harmonics.
If the piano has an intrinsically bright sound it can attenuate this quality, but as other posts have explained it can also damage the action and the continuous use of the left pedal is a bad habit like driving a manual gear change car with your left foot resting on the clutch pedal.
Best piano playing practice is to use the una corda pedal judiciously and with discernment. With regulation and voicing your piano can have its tone made less harsh and then you have an instrument that offers an even greater range of expression in both dynamic and tonal colouring.
Kind regards,
Robert.

Re: My piano seems to be better with soft pedal depressed. [Re: BDB] #2802332
01/15/19 04:28 PM
01/15/19 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by BDB
Broken hammer return spring cords are a problem. Some of the hammers are returning due to the springs, and the ones with broken cords are returning due to the bridle straps. The repetition will not be the same.

About the hammer rest rail, you can pull rather hard on it and it will compress the felt that sets its position slightly. Slightly is all you need. The hammers should not go back with it more than a minimal amount. The distance they go back is the lost motion in the action.


I understand now and i tried. There were only 1 or 2 hammers that moved back with it a tiny bit.. almost nothing, so that looks good.


Robert 45, i now understand that the soft pedal actually introduces lost motion, i also checked this looking at the action while pressing the keys. Very interesting and good to know! I will definitly not be playing like this.

Right now it seems to me that the piano is in pretty good shape but there are some things that need to be fixed and it probably could use some voicing. I wonder what the tech will say about it with the first tuning.





U3 1985
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