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Partials stronger than fundamental #2799612
01/08/19 06:17 AM
01/08/19 06:17 AM
Joined: May 2013
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Beemer Offline OP
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Beemer  Offline OP
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Why are some partials strong enough to cause an ETD to jump to a higher octave when tuning?

Ian


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2016 Blüthner Model A
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Re: Partials stronger than fundamental [Re: Beemer] #2799615
01/08/19 06:33 AM
01/08/19 06:33 AM
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Hakki Offline
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For notes below the break that's almost always the case. Partials are stronger than the fundamental.

Although some ETDs allow you to choose the fundamental,
IMO it is more accurate to measure the stronger partials.

Re: Partials stronger than fundamental [Re: Beemer] #2799645
01/08/19 08:42 AM
01/08/19 08:42 AM
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prout Offline
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As you know, FFT frequency analysis uses linear binning. This means that the accuracy of the frequency measurement for inharmonicity increases with increasing frequency. Therefore, when tuning, referencing a higher partial will result in more accurate placement of the fundamental.

For auto-note recognition, most ETDs listen for the referenced partial. If you play another related note loudly when the ETD thinks it is tuning a particular note, it can get confused. If that happens to me, I simply play a note next to the one I want to tune and the ETD immediately knows where to listen.

Re: Partials stronger than fundamental [Re: prout] #2800383
01/10/19 05:38 AM
01/10/19 05:38 AM
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Beemer Offline OP
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Thanks for your explanation which is new to me. So does that mean the number of bins are 88 times 'x' number of partials of each note? Statistics never was one of my strong subjects.

Ian


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2016 Blüthner Model A
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Re: Partials stronger than fundamental [Re: Beemer] #2800419
01/10/19 09:05 AM
01/10/19 09:05 AM
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prout Offline
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The number of bins is the resolution of the measurement (not the accuracy) and is determined by taking the frequency range of interest and dividing it into equal-sized 'bins'. I use anywhere from 2^20 down to 2^12 bins. The absolute accuracy is limited by the sample length and is the inverse of it. A 10 second sample yields a 1/10Hz accuracy, but, by oversampling and overlapping the samples, it is possible to achieve a much higher accuracy even at 1 second sample lengths.

Re: Partials stronger than fundamental [Re: Beemer] #2800493
01/10/19 12:13 PM
01/10/19 12:13 PM
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prout Offline
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I should mention that a 0.1Hz accuracy I used as an example above translates into 0.2 cent error at A5, but a 6.3 cent error at A0, hence the reason for ETDs (and aural tuners) using higher partials for tuning.

Some ETDs are capable of measuring higher frequencies for determining iH with very good accuracy, and almost all ETDs are capable of measuring the error of your tuning of a desired frequency to an accuracy limited only by the accuracy of the clock in the device which is usually one or two parts per million over 10 seconds.

Re: Partials stronger than fundamental [Re: prout] #2800763
01/11/19 07:41 AM
01/11/19 07:41 AM
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Beemer Offline OP
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Beemer  Offline OP
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prout,

QED

thanks,

Ian

Last edited by Beemer; 01/11/19 07:42 AM.

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2016 Blüthner Model A

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