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PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! #2800624
01/10/19 04:42 PM
01/10/19 04:42 PM
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Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline OP
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Wondering how many people here have ever based their choice on Piano Buyer?
Whole- Partly - Not at all?
Every answer good.
Let's share some....curious
Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 01/10/19 04:43 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800655
01/10/19 06:00 PM
01/10/19 06:00 PM
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Encino, California
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When my old Knabe started to fall apart, I was in the market for a another small grand. Nothing too expensive, but still likable and good sounding to my ears. My piano tuner recommended that I read "The Piano Book" by Larry Fine, which at the time was the fourth edition. In perusing the book, I came across a piano called Estonia. My mental picture of it was a white instrument with cheap plastic keys and a very tinny sound. What else could one expect from a previous member of the Soviet Union? But I read up on it, and my curiosity was piqued. I just had to try one. I found a 9 footer for sale an hour's drive from my home. Too big and too expensive, but it was the only one around. I drove all the way to the piano shop to try it out, and it was love at first sight. Now the hunt for a 168 started, but used Estonias were not easy to find in those days, and I finally gave up and set my sights on a Kawai. Then one late night, I was scrolling through the Pennysaver on the net, and the very last ad said: Used Estonia 168 grand for sale for $6000, firm. The next morning, the piano was mine, and we are still happy together.


Some men are music lovers. Others make love without it.
Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800657
01/10/19 06:06 PM
01/10/19 06:06 PM
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Yes. I am the 70s product of an all-Steinway school in what was an all-Steinway world (Baldwin and Yamaha were good too of course, so long as you were a jazzer!). Perri's fascinating book led me to Piano Buyer at a time later in life when Steinway (B and up) was still my only serious consideration. The discussions here, however, convinced me to search out brands that I would never have seriously considered. I found some wonderful pianos that otherwise would never have been on my radar.

Larry.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800665
01/10/19 06:31 PM
01/10/19 06:31 PM
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Good for a framework if not familiar with market. Can't imagine going blindly based on their staff picks, and don't believe they would suggest it either. Have to get out there and feel and listen for yourself, hopefully armed with info to avoid red flag situations.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800668
01/10/19 06:46 PM
01/10/19 06:46 PM
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I was influenced by quite a few things in my decision to
by my new piano. The was Piano world Forum, Piano Buyer , talking to the manufacturer by quite a few messages ,but also by reading
different dealer websites in Europe about brands and technical specifications for different models .
I also played many different pianos in shops around Vancouver .
I also played different models and compaired .
I would say Piano Buyer is an important beginning to find out more
about different brands and models for any potential piano one may
decide on buying .

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800684
01/10/19 07:38 PM
01/10/19 07:38 PM
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New York City
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The Piano Buyer and The Piano Book are by far the best, most comprehensive, and most objective/fair minded books about buying a piano. That being said, I'm sure Larry Fine would not suggest buying a piano solely based on what one can read in those books. There are many good pianos at every price point so that personal preference should play a part in the selection.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: pianoloverus] #2800695
01/10/19 08:21 PM
01/10/19 08:21 PM
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
The Piano Buyer and The Piano Book are by far the best, most comprehensive, and most objective/fair minded books about buying a piano. That being said, I'm sure Larry Fine would not suggest buying a piano solely based on what one can read in those books. There are many good pianos at every price point so that personal preference should play a part in the selection.


I used both books to do extensive research first, then went and tried the different pianos.


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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800697
01/10/19 08:56 PM
01/10/19 08:56 PM
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Phoenix, Arizona
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I have been diligently reading the Piano Buyer (and Piano Book) for the past 18 years. These resources were invaluable to me (and largely informed my final decisions) as I purchased a grand in 2002, a semi concert grand in 2006, a digital in 2013 and a new upright in 2018. Plus I've learned a tremendous amount about the history, unique characteristics and relative merits of all brands. Of course, once armed with the information provided in these books, one must ultimately make purchase decisions based on actually playing a specific instrument.


Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800741
01/11/19 03:27 AM
01/11/19 03:27 AM
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CO, USA
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As far as reference material, Larry Fine's "Piano Book" was central as it helped informed how to evaluate a piano. Not Piano Buyer.


phacke

Steinway YM (1933)
...Working on:
J. S. Bach, Toccata (G minor) BWV 915
(and trying not to forget the other stuff I know)
Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800792
01/11/19 09:37 AM
01/11/19 09:37 AM
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I used the Piano Book as a guide and ALWAYS peruse the pricing databases every Spring and Fall. I used the info to aid me in my negotiation for trade-in and trade-up. It’s my Kelley Blue Book so to speak.


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800799
01/11/19 09:56 AM
01/11/19 09:56 AM
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Georgia, USA
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Before I worked for the Piano Buyer, I used the Piano Buyer/Piano Book to:

- learn about brands I'd never even heard of
- used the contact information in the brand profiles to contact distributors, get dealer names, and even product inventories
- read the information about evaluating a used piano when I was taking a basic piano technology course in college
- referred to the pricing information frequently, while shopping or dreaming about what I wish I could afford



Pianist, teacher, apprentice technician, internet addict.
Piano Review Editor - Acoustic and Digital Piano Buyer
Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800872
01/11/19 01:05 PM
01/11/19 01:05 PM
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I’m not sure who pointed me towards Larry Fine’s book. But, before reading it, I was clueless what to look for in a piano to upgrade from my spinet that wasn’t cutting it anymore. I pretty much followed all his recommendations in starting my search for a grand piano. I was confounded by finding the piano of my dreams in the very first piano I looked at and played. But, it was the book that gave me confidence to buy after having a piano technician go over the piano. I adore my rebuilt Mason & Hamlin BB. And pretty much every pianist who has played it in my home has envied it too!! The book was really invaluable to me.


1918 Mason & Hamlin BB
1906 Mason & Hamlin Es
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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800875
01/11/19 01:11 PM
01/11/19 01:11 PM
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Oregon USA
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I found Piano Buyer very helpful in my piano buying research.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800910
01/11/19 02:58 PM
01/11/19 02:58 PM
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Surrey, B.C.
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Good replies! thumb
Without trying to be negative: did it also help to confuse some?
After all, the choice is still up to the buyer and it's never easy...
Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800912
01/11/19 03:12 PM
01/11/19 03:12 PM
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Norbert - for me reading the Piano Book caused some internal debates, but the pricing info and rating made the complexity of buying and negotiation much easier. When the owner, who was also my salesman saw me come into the store with a notebook, pricing lists, and my own piano pieces to play, I was treated as a customer who knows what’s going on. It was like going into the car dealership with all the invoice and typical dealer mark up, when shopping for a truck. Very unromantic but hey, my selected piano was given a final tuning right before I paid for it and was delivered the next morning.


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800935
01/11/19 04:06 PM
01/11/19 04:06 PM
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New York City
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Originally Posted by Norbert
Without trying to be negative: did it also help to confuse some?After all, the choice is still up to the buyer and it's never easy...
I don't see how it could possibly confuse anyone. It's so clearly written. "The choice is up to the buyer" has nothing to do with the Piano Book causing confusion.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2800964
01/11/19 04:59 PM
01/11/19 04:59 PM
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It is more objective and less confusing than some of what is said on internet forums, to be sure. No, I'm not knocking internet forums.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: pianoloverus] #2801011
01/11/19 06:56 PM
01/11/19 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Norbert
Without trying to be negative: did it also help to confuse some?After all, the choice is still up to the buyer and it's never easy...
I don't see how it could possibly confuse anyone. It's so clearly written. "The choice is up to the buyer" has nothing to do with the Piano Book causing confusion.

I think Norbert is just asking because one may like a piano
after playing it in a store and then read something negative
on Piano Buyer or vice versa. This may cause one to doubt
whether one is capable of choosing the right instrument .

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2801022
01/11/19 07:26 PM
01/11/19 07:26 PM
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Philadelphia/South Jersey
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Larry's very first book came out just a year or so after I graduated from music school. I had dabbled with piano technology in college and was so excited to have just been hired by Cunningham Piano Company. Although I was surrounded by rebuilders at Cunningham, I learned a tremendous amount about available brands from The Piano Book and I used the book with clients to give them information as well.

I have tremendous respect for Larry and we began communicating soon after that first volume was published. I admire what he has done for the industry and I totally respect what he has accomplished.

I had the chance to interview him earlier this year while we were both at the National Piano Technicians convention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HudRpC5BBsU


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Lady Bird] #2801032
01/11/19 08:07 PM
01/11/19 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Norbert
Without trying to be negative: did it also help to confuse some?After all, the choice is still up to the buyer and it's never easy...
I don't see how it could possibly confuse anyone. It's so clearly written. "The choice is up to the buyer" has nothing to do with the Piano Book causing confusion.

I think Norbert is just asking because one may like a piano
after playing it in a store and then read something negative
on Piano Buyer or vice versa. This may cause one to doubt
whether one is capable of choosing the right instrument.
Although the earliest edition of the Piano Book may have contained some critical comments about the worst pianos that is not the case for probably at least the last ten years. As Fine explains, there are no really bad pianos at this point.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Lady Bird] #2801033
01/11/19 08:09 PM
01/11/19 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Norbert
Without trying to be negative: did it also help to confuse some?After all, the choice is still up to the buyer and it's never easy...
I don't see how it could possibly confuse anyone. It's so clearly written. "The choice is up to the buyer" has nothing to do with the Piano Book causing confusion.

I think Norbert is just asking because one may like a piano
after playing it in a store and then read something negative
on Piano Buyer or vice versa. This may cause one to doubt
whether one is capable of choosing the right instrument.
Although the earliest edition of the Piano Book may have contained some critical comments about the worst pianos that is not the case for probably at least the last ten years. As Fine explains, there are no really bad pianos at this point.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2801038
01/11/19 08:52 PM
01/11/19 08:52 PM
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I think we all do admire and respect larry Fine .It is wonderful
that we have that knowledge available .Sorry I did not mean I did
not .I do not know what I would have done without it when I bought
my piano .

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2801045
01/11/19 09:19 PM
01/11/19 09:19 PM
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Seattle, WA USA
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Does anyone think that a listing of preferred specifications for standard design features found on pianos would be useful?

I am suggesting a list of specs derived from the extensive work of prominent rebuilders and technicians that people in the market for a piano could hand to a dealer and say: "I will not buy any piano that does not meet these specifications."


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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Rich Galassini] #2801071
01/11/19 11:08 PM
01/11/19 11:08 PM
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Larry's very first book came out just a year or so after I graduated from music school. I had dabbled with piano technology in college and was so excited to have just been hired by Cunningham Piano Company. Although I was surrounded by rebuilders at Cunningham, I learned a tremendous amount about available brands from The Piano Book and I used the book with clients to give them information as well.

I have tremendous respect for Larry and we began communicating soon after that first volume was published. I admire what he has done for the industry and I totally respect what he has accomplished.

I had the chance to interview him earlier this year while we were both at the National Piano Technicians convention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HudRpC5BBsU

I really enjoyed your interview with Larry Fine!


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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2801078
01/12/19 12:06 AM
01/12/19 12:06 AM
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Williamsburg, VA
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The Piano Book (before the current Piano Buyer) offered the most detailed and objective introduction to the piano market that I could find. Reading it helped me slow down and learn more about my options. I would probably not have considered as wide a set of instruments but for that book.

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2801082
01/12/19 12:33 AM
01/12/19 12:33 AM
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I think for people that want to buy a new piano with a set budget in mind (so almost everybody) and that wants to quickly see which new pianos should fit perfectly into the budget the website is invaluable. You put in your grand piano size, enter a discount of 20 % off SMP sort the list by price and then start typing those models into the pianoworld forum search smile

then you hopefully find competent dealers that have those models in their showrooms and you try them out one by one ...

I was so happy I had my printed list of SMP minus 20 % with me, because most dealers didn't list prices at all and if you ask them you have no idea if you are already getting an offer at a somewhat reasonble price or if it is the MSRP. And those dealers that post MSRPs on their price tags are scaring off anybody that is not educated. If you set a budget of 15 grand and you see a sticker of 15 grand without knowing about typical piano pricing, you don"t even think about that model anymore, whereas if you go by the SMP - 20 % some pianos with MSRP in the mid 20ies might still be in your budget.

Last edited by rhawke; 01/12/19 12:38 AM.
Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Piano*Dad] #2801136
01/12/19 07:16 AM
01/12/19 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
The Piano Book (before the current Piano Buyer) offered the most detailed and objective introduction to the piano market that I could find. Reading it helped me slow down and learn more about my options. I would probably not have considered as wide a set of instruments but for that book.


Hey Piano*Dad,

I think that is true for many people considering a premium piano. There are tremendous choices out there that the average consumer in the past was not aware of.

By the way, how are the Piano*Boys... or should I say Piano*Men these days? smile


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Subscribe to our YouTube channel for great content every week:
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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Rich Galassini] #2801188
01/12/19 10:09 AM
01/12/19 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
The Piano Book (before the current Piano Buyer) offered the most detailed and objective introduction to the piano market that I could find. Reading it helped me slow down and learn more about my options. I would probably not have considered as wide a set of instruments but for that book.


Hey Piano*Dad,

I think that is true for many people considering a premium piano. There are tremendous choices out there that the average consumer in the past was not aware of.

By the way, how are the Piano*Boys... or should I say Piano*Men these days? smile

I know a Piano*Student! wink


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2801199
01/12/19 10:32 AM
01/12/19 10:32 AM
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I sure don’t understand the piano market but there are folks that become anxious and overwhelmed by too much choice and too much technical information when shopping. I made the assumption but could be quite wrong, that was what Norbert was asking with the second part of this thread.
For me, my location and budget eliminated total confusion from too much choice. There’s really only two piano stores in the state and my budget and available floorspace narrowed the choice considerably. I’m really grateful for what I have to play and use and Larry Fine’s book gave me much needed info in a clear concise manner.


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
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Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2801701
01/13/19 08:17 PM
01/13/19 08:17 PM
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Posts: 15,431
Surrey, B.C.
For me my question had nothing to do with "respect" for an author. I have read many books in my life and rarely did I not respect the author. Eckart Tolle anybody? wink But in most cases, my questions had not been [completely] answered so its normal to keep on finding one's own answer. Thinking same is true for many subjects in life. For example, some of my customers didn't read very favourable reviews of one or two piano but liked them when trying them. Same is/was true with some of my competitors brands. So, what to answer in such case? Thinking it is never easy and may present - in some cases at least - more questions than answers. In the end, this is the closest that was on my mind:
Quote
I think Norbert is just asking because one may like a piano
after playing it in a store and then read something negative on Piano Buyer or vice versa. This may cause one to doubt
whether one is capable of choosing the right instrument

So, perhaps something like that did happen to some people here at time of buying? Who then "followed their heart" and are still happy with their decision today.
All good.

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 01/13/19 08:19 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2801730
01/13/19 11:00 PM
01/13/19 11:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,756
The Heart of Screenland
K
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member
KurtZ  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,756
The Heart of Screenland
there is no one TRUTH and looking for it in a book is silly. That said, TPB and PB are invaluable, informative guides for any pianist looking to find their own truths and no, it did not confuse me in anyway but much more so helped to helped to clarify my mind about who built what.

Kurt


**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2802407
01/15/19 06:50 PM
01/15/19 06:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 660
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Online content
500 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 660
North Vancouver
We had bought a new Yamaha U1 a few months earlier .
Good, dependable ,U1 to last till the end of our
lives .The Sauter 130 on the other side of the store intrigued
us with its beautiful tone ,it's treble notes that just carried on
sounding .The bass was round and full .A powerful sound.
Often we would just go and try it in the store .We tried a W Hoffman
and a C Bechstein .Eventually we decided on the trade up and
the Sauter we loved became ours .

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2802732
Yesterday at 01:40 PM
Yesterday at 01:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5
Dallas, Texas area
J
Jim DK Offline
Junior Member
Jim DK  Offline
Junior Member
J

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5
Dallas, Texas area
In 1999, I was in the market for buying a baby grand. While browsing through the music-related section of Barnes & Noble, I saw Larry Fine's book - the green 3rd edition - and purchased it. That began my yearlong search to buy my piano. I visited several local piano stores in the Dallas, TX area, visited with a few local piano rebuilders, checked out the classified ads in the Dallas newspaper and finally bought a new 1999 Petrof 5'3" PV baby grand in gloss walnut finish. There was a local dealer who had a section of the store devoted to Petrofs. The deciding factor for me was this quote by Mr. Fine,"For a piano of its size, the 5'3" grand has an especially good sound."

Re: PIANO BUYER - PIANO CHOICE! [Re: Norbert] #2803039
7 hours ago
7 hours ago
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,953
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,953
Maryland/DC/No. VA
On behalf of Larry, Owen, myself and the others who are instrumental in producing Piano Buyer, I would like to thank everyone who has shown appreciation for our labors.

Purchasing the "right" piano is a real challenge for those who don't play. Concluding that any final decision should be based on one's hands-on experience doesn't really apply to this segment of the market, which is very large. They feel little difference in touch, and while they hear different tone qualities, they often can't tell which is "better". And, relying on the salesperson alone is high risk.

Yes, to these shoppers Piano Buyer may be somewhat confusing, but it will help to isolate a group of prospective instruments, all of which would satisfy their needs. Were they to use Piano Buyer as their sole source of information, it is likely that they would avoid making a significant mistake.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
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