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Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800006 01/09/19 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by PianoStartsAt33
Originally Posted by CyberGene


Newest LX-series: thin, boxed, mono-like sound that is disguised by very good resonances and stuff but the core part is meh.
Previous LX-series: even worse!

-----
But started wondering: is this a burnout that I am having? Am I too picky? Becoming grumpy old man? smile What do you think?



Have you ever heard a sound of vocal cords coming close to pruduce sound of human voice? Initially, it's just sone kind of unpleasant hissing or something like that. Only when this sound comes through our body, when it's enriched with chest and head resonances, we can hear that beautiful singing tone, for example. May be, it's just the same with the piano? Resonances (cabinet, open stirngs etc.) do not mask anyting - resonances create piano sound.


This might seem like a proper analogy but it isn't smile Ultimately it's the final result that matters. I don't care how human voice is created, I only care if it is beautiful. Same with piano sound. To my ears the final result of the current or previous fully modeled Roland pianos isn't good enough EVEN with the rich resonances added. But that's just my ears. YMMV as they say smile


And are any others any better? I think not. Perception varies enormously minute by minute almost. When you're stuck with one piano sound, you accept the situation and enjoy it, because there are (were) no alternatives then. And not a lot of money floating around, either. Generally speaking that is!
The choices we nave now create more problems than they solve. The supermarkets are five times larger than they need to be, frankly, it's a pain trying to find basic commodities any more. . . .
More is less!

I'm going to play my FP50 for a week, without any Pianoteq intrusion. Just to see how I get on . . . .I didn't buy it without reason.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800008 01/09/19 07:55 AM
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Coincidentally just placed an order for a NU1X from Thomann laugh


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800018 01/09/19 08:28 AM
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Your lifelong exposure to acoustic pianos may indeed be the reason for your finding Pianoteq unsatisfactory.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Once again, this is an analogy that might have its merits but I don't think is applicable in my case. I've grown up with the piano, my mother plays piano, I've played many different pianos, including grand and upright pianos, I've listened to piano music all my life so I know exactly how an acoustic piano should sound, although they differ a lot, yet they have their specific inherent character that's currently missing in modeled pianos.
And someone's lack of such exposure might explain why he accepts electronically produced piano sounds as natural ... even to the point that he dislikes the acoustic piano?

Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800022 01/09/19 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Coincidentally just placed an order for a NU1X from Thomann laugh

At least this disproves your theory that you are totally burned out - you found one that actually makes you happy! Congratulations! I would recommend that you now cease messing around with other sampled libraries for a while and enjoy your new piano! You don't want to start comparing your new instrument to other huge sampled libraries.

Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
ando #2800024 01/09/19 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Coincidentally just placed an order for a NU1X from Thomann laugh

At least this disproves your theory that you are totally burned out - you found one that actually makes you happy! Congratulations! I would recommend that you now cease messing around with other sampled libraries for a while and enjoy your new piano! You don't want to start comparing your new instrument to other huge sampled libraries.


It's exactly what I intend to do and what I've actually been doing with all my previous purchases. Although I've used Vintage D in the past, it was only for recordings. And with Garritan CFX I started using it a year or two after I've played with the internal sound of my ES7. And I will also have my grand action DIY controller hooked to Garritan CFX, so hopefully there's much variety in my piano arsenal to not complain for a while wink


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800025 01/09/19 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Coincidentally just placed an order for a NU1X from Thomann laugh


Congratulations!


Kawai Novus NV5 | Yamaha P-115
Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Minigrand | VI Labs Modern U
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800027 01/09/19 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Coincidentally just placed an order for a NU1X from Thomann laugh


Will you continue development of Cyber DIY grand piano??

Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
newer player #2800045 01/09/19 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by newer player
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Coincidentally just placed an order for a NU1X from Thomann laugh


Will you continue development of Cyber DIY grand piano??


Ohh, sure, it's almost finished, I have the sensor PCB-s (yes, I decided to use single small PCBs for each sensor), the note module PCB-s (those that interpret the optical signals and generate digital signals) and currently finishing the CPU board which is actually just a board that hosts the Teensy controller, does I/O with the key modules and has the 5V and pedal inputs. A particular reason for it to take so long, besides the lack of time, is my personality which is always hesitating, I always strive for perfection and I simply can't finalize things because I am afraid I might be missing something or it could have been made better and so I just think and think and try many things in my head only to realize on the next day that I should try differently... But it will be finished! smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800054 01/09/19 09:40 AM
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I've listened to piano music all my life so I know exactly how an acoustic piano should sound, although they differ a lot, yet they have their specific inherent character that's currently missing in modeled pianos.

That settles it, we'll have a double blind test and see if you can tell the difference more than 50 percent of the time. smile


website | mp3 files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800070 01/09/19 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Coincidentally just placed an order for a NU1X from Thomann laugh

Congratulations - from what I've heard that's a great piano. I'll be quite curious what you'll think of the onboard CFX and Bosendorfer sounds after you've spent a lot of time with them. I haven't had the chance to play it but some of the best sounds (with a great action) from Yamaha should be very interesting!

Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800072 01/09/19 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Ohh, sure, it's almost finished, I have the sensor PCB-s (yes, I decided to use single small PCBs for each sensor), the note module PCB-s (those that interpret the optical signals and generate digital signals) and currently finishing the CPU board which is actually just a board that hosts the Teensy controller, does I/O with the key modules and has the 5V and pedal inputs. A particular reason for it to take so long, besides the lack of time, is my personality which is always hesitating, I always strive for perfection and I simply can't finalize things because I am afraid I might be missing something or it could have been made better and so I just think and think and try many things in my head only to realize on the next day that I should try differently... But it will be finished! smile

Awesome. There is always a case for rummaging ideas and a case for just diving in.

Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800079 01/09/19 10:42 AM
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Most of the digitals I've tried lately just sound, well, too digital. I guess I am spoiled by having an acoustic grand, but after playing some digitals, and then playing the real things, it's just not even close. Even the ones that had a good piano sound could not compete in touch. It felt like playing mf would produce a sound that's too soft, or if I wanted to play ff, I'd have to hit the keys extremely hard. In short, I didn't like the sound or the touch response of most digitals. They are good for non-piano sounds, but for just piano, I'd rather have any decent acoustic.


Kawai RX-6 BLAK
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
Jeff Hurchalla #2800086 01/09/19 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Hurchalla
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Coincidentally just placed an order for a NU1X from Thomann laugh

Congratulations - from what I've heard that's a great piano. I'll be quite curious what you'll think of the onboard CFX and Bosendorfer sounds after you've spent a lot of time with them. I haven't had the chance to play it but some of the best sounds (with a great action) from Yamaha should be very interesting!


Thanks, Jeff! From what I've heard so far as demos, Garritan CFX is still better sounding than Yamaha's own sampling but then there's the entire NU1X package with the real action, the great sound system, the VRM resonance modeling and all that integrated into lovely playability.

But I guess I'm not abandoning Garritan CFX yet which I will be using with my own built controller, so thank you again for your excellent work on CFX and your tremendous help in regards to re-pedaling configuration.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800196 01/09/19 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I've listened to piano music all my life so I know exactly how an acoustic piano should sound, although they differ a lot, yet they have their specific inherent character that's currently missing in modeled pianos.


I have to find that video I've seen on Youtube about a year ago - with a little girl observing her new Yamaha P-45. Althought she speaks russian... So, the point is that she says:"The sound is beatiful! I like it much more than sound of any real piano in my music school".
So, it's a child. About 9-10 years old. Her taste is not formed yet. She just has to make fair, not influenced choice. And she chooses digital sound. I may suppose that pianos in her music school are mostly in not very good condition because financing is poor. But nevertheless, all the old peano teacher I know alway say "The worst and cheapest acoustic is better than any digital" - the child feels it opposite.


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Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
PianoStartsAt33 #2800222 01/09/19 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by PianoStartsAt33

I have to find that video I've seen on Youtube about a year ago - with a little girl observing her new Yamaha P-45. Althought she speaks russian... So, the point is that she says:"The sound is beatiful! I like it much more than sound of any real piano in my music school".
So, it's a child. About 9-10 years old. Her taste is not formed yet. She just has to make fair, not influenced choice. And she chooses digital sound. I may suppose that pianos in her music school are mostly in not very good condition because financing is poor. But nevertheless, all the old peano teacher I know alway say "The worst and cheapest acoustic is better than any digital" - the child feels it opposite.
So, she says she attends a music school. I dare to say her taste is pretty well formed.

Once I was a student to the local music school, the acoustic pianos there were low end August Fürster (I am referring to late 1980s and early 1990s). Without any doubt any contemporary digital, especially a Yamaha, would beat them in sound and mechanics.

Turning to the Russian made acoustic pianos (Чайковски, Чайка and whatnot), here (and “here” is an Eastern European country) they are considered next-to-garbage, a poor man’s acoustic piano, a better-than-nothing instrument. Those are the cheapest pianos on the market.

It’s quite believeable that the girl in the said video has been honest.

And no, I disagree with your teacher who seems to have never played a Чайка.

I do not mean to hate the Russian-made pianos. They have their uses, for example, the students in opera singing buy them to help them exercise their voice while warming up.

Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
TrollToddington #2800230 01/09/19 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TrollToddington
Originally Posted by PianoStartsAt33

But nevertheless, all the old peano teacher I know alway say "The worst and cheapest acoustic is better than any digital"


And no, I disagree with your teacher who seems to have never played a Чайка.



I meant not my teacher exaxctly, but any old music teacher from numerous music schools around the country. All theese grannies hate digitals.
I disagree too, of course. But I bet there some forum members that share teacher's position smile

Last edited by PianoStartsAt33; 01/09/19 05:04 PM.

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Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800234 01/09/19 05:12 PM
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Most of these “grannies” have prepared top class pianists, especially in Eastetn Europe smile They are very clever and know their business, don’t underestimate them! Of course Soviet pianos are crap and I’d prefer a digital over most Soviet pianos without blinking. But for me personally a digital piano, bar hybrid ones, is a no match for a well tuned and maintained acoustic Japanese or German piano.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800255 01/09/19 06:10 PM
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Soviet pianos lousy? I hear nothing wrong with this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKaXayoLGgs


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Casio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, NI Giant, Sampletekk White Grand, Choc. Audio Steinbach, and a few more. Kontakt 5. Reaper.
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800265 01/09/19 06:40 PM
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When I said “most” and not “all” of them, it was exactly because of Estonia smile But can’t think of any other Soviet brand that is worth it today and is still made. BTW, Estonia is very old, so maybe shouldn’t be considered Soviet at all.

Last edited by CyberGene; 01/09/19 06:42 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: I hate all digital pianos' sound, is this a burnout? :)
CyberGene #2800278 01/09/19 07:04 PM
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It matters very much when a particular Estonia piano was built. They were good long long ago before the Soviet period, they're excellent now. The one in the video appears to be well post-Soviet.


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