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Chopin - Waltz in A Minor #2799283
01/07/19 05:43 AM
01/07/19 05:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
A
Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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Who else is practicing this beautiful piece? Would love to hear your experiences with it and what you see the most challenging thing in the piece. Do you practice the easy version or the original?


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799284
01/07/19 06:17 AM
01/07/19 06:17 AM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 66
UK
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UK
Hi.I have done it not long time ago. If you want to listen link below. At first it seemed to be easy but after a bit of practising I found it quite difficult for my level. I had problem with trills and then with left hand so it is not to heavy and do not sound like chopping wood. Peddling was difficult as well, it is very easy is over do it. It took me about 4 months to get grasp of it. I don’t think that I’ve mastered it this but did what I could.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SNKDHT0lPU&frags=pl%2Cwn


My You Tube Channel
Roland LX17
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799289
01/07/19 06:53 AM
01/07/19 06:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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You played it beautifully!


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799298
01/07/19 07:52 AM
01/07/19 07:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 21
Alagoas - Brazil
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Hi Artur, I've practiced this piece for 1,5 month. I think the most difficult things are the right hand arpeggio, the clarity in trills and find the needed muscle memory to play the third part of the piece (measures 33-40).

You will enjoy this beautiful piece wink

If you want to see my recording:

https://youtu.be/--Wx5reJJQ


Started learning on December 2016.

Nowadays studying classical plus pop music.

My Youtube channel
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799314
01/07/19 09:41 AM
01/07/19 09:41 AM
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Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Claudemir you also play it beautifully ❤️


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799323
01/07/19 10:36 AM
01/07/19 10:36 AM
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Posts: 21
Alagoas - Brazil
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Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski
Claudemir you also play it beautifully ❤️

Thank you wink


Started learning on December 2016.

Nowadays studying classical plus pop music.

My Youtube channel
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799325
01/07/19 10:43 AM
01/07/19 10:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 386
Ireland
Sibylle Online content
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This isn't going to be particularly helpful, but I used to play this a long long time ago (at the time when I had lessons, growing up), and you've just inspired me to play it again. Thanks for bringing it up! Let us know how you get on with it smile


Sibylle

My piano background

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799350
01/07/19 12:19 PM
01/07/19 12:19 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,282
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski
Who else is practicing this beautiful piece? Would love to hear your experiences with it and what you see the most challenging thing in the piece. Do you practice the easy version or the original?


There are two Waltzes in A minor: Op. 34 No. 2, and the Brown-Index 150. It seems this discussion is about the latter. What "easy version" and what "original"? My Henle has only one version.

Regards,

Last edited by BruceD; 01/07/19 12:24 PM.

BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: BruceD] #2799403
01/07/19 03:19 PM
01/07/19 03:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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Helsinki, Finland
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski
Who else is practicing this beautiful piece? Would love to hear your experiences with it and what you see the most challenging thing in the piece. Do you practice the easy version or the original?


There are two Waltzes in A minor: Op. 34 No. 2, and the Brown-Index 150. It seems this discussion is about the latter. What "easy version" and what "original"? My Henle has only one version.

Regards,


This simplified version, although after practicing this today I am leaning towards learning the original.

https://youtu.be/D8_UkLwIC1o


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Sibylle] #2799404
01/07/19 03:21 PM
01/07/19 03:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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Helsinki, Finland
Originally Posted by Sibylle
This isn't going to be particularly helpful, but I used to play this a long long time ago (at the time when I had lessons, growing up), and you've just inspired me to play it again. Thanks for bringing it up! Let us know how you get on with it smile


Thanks. Hands alone I can do it just fine. Hands together is the hard part 😊


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799437
01/07/19 05:12 PM
01/07/19 05:12 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,282
Victoria, BC
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I see that the simplified version was created by the author of the video lesson. Therefore, it's not one that's readily available in print, I would think. That said, the original is really very easy and it would be worth one's while to work on it, rather than on the simplified version which somewhat compromises the sound of the original.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799442
01/07/19 05:28 PM
01/07/19 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 735
Kitsap County, WA
squidbot Offline
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Though I played this for recital about 6 months ago, I'm still playing it and improving it. The most difficult aspects for me were/are:

- The left hand motion, it has a lot of large jumps and you have to form your hand to the chord during the jump. I spent many hours just practicing the left hand on this one.
- The triplet-quintuplet arpeggio. First off, it's fast and hard to do and keep tempo. Second, the rhythm is challenging. "Pineapple Anniversary" is forever burned in my head (this is the phrase my teacher had me use to help with the timing.)
- The trills, especially in the 3rd section are challenging, though some work can be done to move some of them to more dominant finger. I still don't have these totally down smile

All that said, I found it a very useful piece for learning techniques like left hand jumps and learning it has improved my playing and ability to tackle new pieces. It's also a lovely piece, still one of my favorites in my limited repertoire.

Last edited by squidbot; 01/07/19 05:29 PM.

𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: squidbot] #2799445
01/07/19 05:39 PM
01/07/19 05:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,086
rocket88 Offline
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Originally Posted by squidbot
Second, the rhythm is challenging. "Pineapple Anniversary" is forever burned in my head (this is the phrase my teacher had me use to help with the timing.)


How helpful was it for you to use a multi-syllable word to match and then learn the rhythm? Was it a little helpful, or a lot?

And have you used it with other rhythm challenges?

I have used that strategy many times over the years with dozens of students, and also with my own playing. I am curious because it works very well with many people, but not with everyone.

Thanks.


Piano teacher.
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799452
01/07/19 05:48 PM
01/07/19 05:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,649
Warsaw, Poland
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Warsaw, Poland
It's nice to see other fellow Poles learning Chopin. Pozdrawiam. wink

I learned that one in my first year of piano. Now I find it easy but back then it was a bit challenging. The arpeggio run and trills presented the biggest challenge. The jumps were never very hard for me but for some people they can be.

I agree with Bruce that you should definitely go for the original version. There's no point playing simplified arrangements after your first few months of piano.


[Linked Image]
Working on:
Rameau L'Egyptienne
Haydn Sonata Hob.XVI:37
Field Nocturne no. 10
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: BruceD] #2799563
01/08/19 12:40 AM
01/08/19 12:40 AM
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Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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Helsinki, Finland
Originally Posted by BruceD
I see that the simplified version was created by the author of the video lesson. Therefore, it's not one that's readily available in print, I would think. That said, the original is really very easy and it would be worth one's while to work on it, rather than on the simplified version which somewhat compromises the sound of the original.

Regards,


Sheet music by that author is available for print: https://www.pianotv.net/2016/01/waltz-in-a-minor-by-chopin-simplified-piano-tutorial/


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Qazsedcft] #2799583
01/08/19 02:32 AM
01/08/19 02:32 AM
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Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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Artur Gajewski  Offline OP
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Helsinki, Finland
Originally Posted by Qazsedcft
It's nice to see other fellow Poles learning Chopin. Pozdrawiam. wink

I learned that one in my first year of piano. Now I find it easy but back then it was a bit challenging. The arpeggio run and trills presented the biggest challenge. The jumps were never very hard for me but for some people they can be.

I agree with Bruce that you should definitely go for the original version. There's no point playing simplified arrangements after your first few months of piano.


Pozdrawiam smile Chopin is the one I prefer to listen to when I feel like listening to classical piano. It is peaceful and melodic when other composers tend to get too agressive with the piano for my taste. I just love how Chopin wrote his emotions into his pieces. Nocturnes are my favorite and then some waltzes and preludes.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799585
01/08/19 02:52 AM
01/08/19 02:52 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,282
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski
Originally Posted by BruceD
I see that the simplified version was created by the author of the video lesson. Therefore, it's not one that's readily available in print, I would think. That said, the original is really very easy and it would be worth one's while to work on it, rather than on the simplified version which somewhat compromises the sound of the original.

Regards,


Sheet music by that author is available for print: https://www.pianotv.net/2016/01/waltz-in-a-minor-by-chopin-simplified-piano-tutorial/


I realize that many "methods" publish simplified versions of more difficult works in order to introduce beginning pianists to well-known repertoire. For this Waltz, I would recommend - if you can handle it - that you work on the original for both musical and pedagogical reasons.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799588
01/08/19 03:12 AM
01/08/19 03:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799634
01/08/19 08:13 AM
01/08/19 08:13 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 14
Russia
StasNick Online content
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Russia
Hello!
I have been learning this piece for about 8 months. And I took long breaks, because some places were difficult at first for me. I still continue to improve my performance - this is almost an endless process.

I think the hardest part of this play is:
1. Melisma (mordents and trill at the end). You need to have a fine motor skills. This requires good, trained and fluent fingers.
2. Triplet and quintuplet (22nd bar). This is a polyrhythm, which is quite complicated when counting.
3. Maintaining an even rhythm (even tempo). Still, do not forget that this is a waltz - i.e. dance. A steady tempo is important in the dance. Yes, rubato - is good, but it should be a decoration, and not something intrusive and alien.

At first I played the original sheet, which are widespread.
However, on the IMSLP website I found the original Chopin manuscript. And there I noticed an interesting feature: the differences in the motive for repetition.
For clarity, I attach a photo of these notes. I marked this place. And I myself play in this version.
[Linked Image]

The difference is as follows: for the first time two eighth notes are played. And the second time - the dotted eighth note and sixteenth note. That is, the rhythmic pattern is slightly different and more complicated.

My recording of this waltz is here >>.


I started learning to play the piano in November 2017.
Yamaha Clavinova CLP-635 | SoundCloud >>
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799657
01/08/19 09:02 AM
01/08/19 09:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,811
Italy
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Italy
I finally wrapped up this piece after a long time in the "polishing" stage, which means I got an acceptable recording with only minor mistakes. I have yet to play it 100% smoothly and convincingly at about 90 bpm, which is the tempo that sounds best to me.

I don't understand why this piece is considered early intermediate or so - it's full of challenges, as others have mentioned. My biggest problem was where to look at any given time. I soon found that I could not follow the score and get the leaps right, and even after memorizing the piece, which is a pretty easy thing to do, I found my eyes wandering too much. Sitting a bit further away from the piano and trying to look in the middle part of the keyboard was definitely helpful. That way you avoid a lot of head movement and you can use peripheral vision for the very low and very high notes (at times almost 5 octaves apart!).

Another thing that helped was convince myself that I actually knew the piece. Self-confidence does wonders especially in this kind of pieces, while doubting oneself even for a second will lead to missed notes and clunky ornaments.


Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
To create a beautiful sound, one must imagine it at first and then learn to produce fluid physical motions that breathe life into music. (Shirley Kirsten)
http://soundcloud.com/sinophilia - http://youtube.com/sinophilia
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799761
01/08/19 02:09 PM
01/08/19 02:09 PM
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Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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Progress day 1: I manage to play left hand alone at 60bpm and right hand alone for the first eight bars. Both hands, so and so at 30bpm laugh

Last edited by Artur Gajewski; 01/08/19 02:19 PM.

- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: rocket88] #2799804
01/08/19 04:59 PM
01/08/19 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 735
Kitsap County, WA
squidbot Offline
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Originally Posted by rocket88
Originally Posted by squidbot
Second, the rhythm is challenging. "Pineapple Anniversary" is forever burned in my head (this is the phrase my teacher had me use to help with the timing.)


How helpful was it for you to use a multi-syllable word to match and then learn the rhythm? Was it a little helpful, or a lot?
Thanks.


I was initially skeptical, but it was actually very helpful. It helped me to understand what it was supposed to sound like, and I would literally say the words while I was practicing and knew I wasn't getting the rhythm correct. I have been singing for decades longer than I've been playing piano so that may have something to do with why it's helpful for me.


Originally Posted by rocket88
And have you used it with other rhythm challenges?


Yes, though it's always my teacher who gives me the suggestion.


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2799856
01/08/19 07:56 PM
01/08/19 07:56 PM
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rocket88 Offline
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Thanks squidbot for the info!


Piano teacher.
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2800394
01/10/19 06:45 AM
01/10/19 06:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 405
Helsinki, Finland
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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Progress update: It's getting there. Very slowly I manage to play first 8 bars both hands together but sometimes I stumble while searching for left hand chord keys.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2800925
01/11/19 04:33 PM
01/11/19 04:33 PM
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Posts: 96
Romania
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I'm working on it now, I plan to have it on the May recital. My teacher is a great help as always...

Since I'm an early beginner I still have some things to develop to get it right. Very good piece to train left hand jumps and the 4/5 right hand fingers smile

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: StasNick] #2800927
01/11/19 04:35 PM
01/11/19 04:35 PM
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India
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StasNick,
I listened to your recording several times. Very beautifully played indeed thumb. Never thought a Waltz could stir emotions like this. I should listen to more of Chopin!

And you started learning just around a year ago! Need to step up my game and start thinking about some hard-core piano goals smile


Think Twice, Play Once
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: StasNick] #2800931
01/11/19 04:43 PM
01/11/19 04:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,128
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,128
Originally Posted by StasNick
My recording of this waltz is here >>.

Beautifully played!


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2801065
01/11/19 11:54 PM
01/11/19 11:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,919
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by StasNick
My recording of this waltz is here >>.

Beautifully played!

Very nicely played!


[Linked Image]
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: StasNick] #2801068
01/12/19 12:04 AM
01/12/19 12:04 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,239
Florida
cmb13 Online sleepy
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Florida
Originally Posted by StasNick
Hello!
I have been learning this piece for about 8 months. And I took long breaks, because some places were difficult at first for me. I still continue to improve my performance - this is almost an endless process.

I think the hardest part of this play is:
1. Melisma (mordents and trill at the end). You need to have a fine motor skills. This requires good, trained and fluent fingers.
2. Triplet and quintuplet (22nd bar). This is a polyrhythm, which is quite complicated when counting.
3. Maintaining an even rhythm (even tempo). Still, do not forget that this is a waltz - i.e. dance. A steady tempo is important in the dance. Yes, rubato - is good, but it should be a decoration, and not something intrusive and alien.

At first I played the original sheet, which are widespread.
However, on the IMSLP website I found the original Chopin manuscript. And there I noticed an interesting feature: the differences in the motive for repetition.
For clarity, I attach a photo of these notes. I marked this place. And I myself play in this version.
[Linked Image]

The difference is as follows: for the first time two eighth notes are played. And the second time - the dotted eighth note and sixteenth note. That is, the rhythmic pattern is slightly different and more complicated.

My recording of this waltz is here >>.


Excellent!


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Chopin 28:15
Tchaikovsky Seasons: October

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2801526
01/13/19 12:23 PM
01/13/19 12:23 PM
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It is a beautiful piece, that I wanted to learn for quite some time. I am hoping to do it for this year’s 40 Pieces a Year Club. I am hoping that will give me the extra motivation needed to practice it more.
Bar 22 confused me a lot at first (3 octave arpeggio). I still can’t play it very quickly, but what helped me was to watch some performances on YouTube. Not the crazy fast ones, but the accurate slower ones. There is quite a few tutorials there too.

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2801785
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Progress update: Been practicing this every single day for at least 30 minutes. It is getting easier for my left hand to handle the note to chords leaps but still some struggles. I keep reminding myself how hard it was for me to play Fur Elise in the beginning and the tremendous progress I have made with it by just practicing, so I am not giving up on this piece smile


- Artur Gajewski

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Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2801883
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You can totally learn this!

I've fallen off the waggon, so to speak, when I found I actually don't have the sheet music for it. So I started on a different waltz smile

I hope we'll hear this from you some time!


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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Sibylle] #2801901
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Originally Posted by Sibylle
I've fallen off the waggon, so to speak, when I found I actually don't have the sheet music for it.

Sibylle, you know about IMSLP, right? For example.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2801905
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Sibylle
I've fallen off the waggon, so to speak, when I found I actually don't have the sheet music for it.

Sibylle, you know about IMSLP, right? For example.

I do, yes smile But I'd assumed it was in one of the Chopin compilation books I bought recently, and it wasn't. Then I saw I had the other one... and decided to do that instead.


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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: squidbot] #2802004
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Originally Posted by squidbot
The most difficult aspects for me were/are:


I realized I forgot another element (which I still struggle with, but it so important for this piece) is moderating the volume of the left hand versus the right. It's very easy to make the left hand (which is just accompaniment) overpower the right hand which completely carries the melody. And all that while trying to maintain a waltz feel with the 2nd and 3rd beats being less pronounced than the first, which presents a challenge as the 1st beat is usually one note and the 2nd and 3rd are 3 note chords.The first Celementi sonatina helped immeasurably in learning to control my left hand, though I have a ways to go still. I find my performance of this waltz much better after doing a lot of work on the sonatina.


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Sibylle] #2802142
01/15/19 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Sibylle
You can totally learn this!


There are no shortcuts, practice will get me there smile

Originally Posted by Sibylle
I hope we'll hear this from you some time!


I will post recording once I get my audio interface so that I can record direct from my Roland.

I took my first private piano lesson yesterday and the teacher gave me some good insight on how I should continue and gave me exercises to practice the big leaps with left hand. He said I have a good touch and hand movement, my only problem is finding the correct keys to press after the leap smile

I will continue weekly lessons with him, he was really good teacher.


- Artur Gajewski

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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Tech-key] #2802150
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Originally Posted by Tech-key

Never thought a Waltz could stir emotions like this. I should listen to more of Chopin!


If you want some emotion try and play Chopin Prelude No 4. Once you realise the pattern its very simple - gets a bit complicated at bars 18/19 but other than that should be no problem for an advanced beginner. But before you start get yourself into an emotional state of being about to cry. Then play the left hand softly and the right hand as though you are crying with it.

I always come out the other end exhausted when I try that - and its a very short piece only 26 bars long.

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2802295
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- Artur Gajewski

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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2802522
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Artur, you inspired me to revisit the piece. It's been about a year since I practiced it regularly. I just made a recording of where I am at with it today, like you so I can see how it improves. I started playing it only about a year in to lessons and was never happy with how I played it and I want to "fix" it now that I have a little more technique under my belt.

Anyway, here's today's recording: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yrlV9Cj7spzX02hFzSuWbEVqcXo7TtLK

Let's keep each other inspired and maybe we can get some others to join us!


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2802532
01/16/19 05:32 AM
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squidbot: you play it very well, I will be at your level in five years laugh

I just took my first lesson on monday and got some really good pointers for the left hand leaps. Funny thing is, about an hour after my recording, it all just snapped and I was able to play it a lot better. In the recording my brain just got stuck and I was searching the the right keys to play for chords but now it seems a lot easier.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
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Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2802534
01/16/19 05:38 AM
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I really started to like Chopin's other waltzes and so I went to local music store and got this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Walzer-Waltz...438&sr=8-3&keywords=chopin+henle

Last edited by Artur Gajewski; 01/16/19 05:39 AM.

- Artur Gajewski

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Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803613
01/18/19 03:24 PM
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Here is my progress since my last recording: http://arturgajewski.com/rec/Chopin%20-%20Waltz%20in%20A%20Minor%20-%20Progress%202.mp3

What do you guys think? It's getting easier, especially first two chords. For some reason G7 is really hard to play, I quite often play G, B, E or G, C, F.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
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Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803616
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I think you're getting there! This is about the stage I'm in with my waltz right now. You're right to keep it slow for now, until you have both the technical and the musical part down. It's what I do, although I'm itching to rush ahead smile


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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803625
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I know the feeling but you are correct. The emotion and dynamics come later.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
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Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803666
01/18/19 05:53 PM
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It sounding good, I think you're picking it up faster than I did when I started with it! I think I spent the first two weeks just playing the left hand by itself over and over trying to figure out how to make those jumps.

With the significant caveat that I'm a piano student with little more than two years of playing, having spent so many months with it I learned to hear my copious mistakes. My advice would be start thinking about bringing the left hand down in volume versus the right. Especially the second and third beat. First, you don't want to overpower the right hand melody, and second you want to give it the "waltz feel" which means the downbeat is emphasized and the remaining beats are softer. A couple of things my teacher had me do to help with this were 1) playing without pedal, play the right hand legato and the left with a light staccato. 2) For the third beat, you don't even need to lift your hand off the keys when you play or even let them fully return to their top position, that will help the third beat be "almost a whisper."

And good ambition on the Waltz book, funny I did the same thing (though not the Henle, the Palmer/Alfred.) I will tell you, every single one is currently beyond my ability but it's an "aspiration" book for me.

To Qazsedcft, my teacher thinks my 25% Polish blood (thanks Grandma Kocol!) must be what draws me to Chopin smile


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803671
01/18/19 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski
Here is my progress since my last recording: http://arturgajewski.com/rec/Chopin%20-%20Waltz%20in%20A%20Minor%20-%20Progress%202.mp3

What do you guys think? It's getting easier, especially first two chords. For some reason G7 is really hard to play, I quite often play G, B, E or G, C, F.


You are progressing ok.

I think pausing every time you have a hard part you should try and avoid and the best way to do this is to play much slower.

I would suggest you slow down the rhythm to play slower and steady.

I actually would not worry about anything else at this stage.

A few smaller things

- Bar 4 has an ornament in the right hand
- The second time around (Bar 7) the left hand G7 changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9oPjsqR5EE

What about the rest of the piece ?

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Moo :)] #2803679
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
- Bar 4 has an ornament in the right hand


When I was first learning, my teacher had me skip the ornamentation to make it a little easier to focus on the fingerings and dynamics, I don't know that it's worth worrying about yet.


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803687
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Ok.

But if an ornament was so difficult - I would have suggested the simplified version.

It seems a very hard piece for a first lesson. It took me a few years of lessons until I could play fur elise and something of this level.

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803706
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When you talk about the difficulty of leaps in the left hand, remember that this is typical Chopin, so when you conquer this waltz, you are opening the door to many other pieces too. If you ever feel like a piece is too much like work, remember there's a whole world of pieces that you are opening up for yourself as you tackle each difficulty.

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803733
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Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski
Here is my progress since my last recording: http://arturgajewski.com/rec/Chopin%20-%20Waltz%20in%20A%20Minor%20-%20Progress%202.mp3

What do you guys think? It's getting easier, especially first two chords. For some reason G7 is really hard to play, I quite often play G, B, E or G, C, F.


May I assume that you are occasionally practicing the left hand alone? Since it is the left hand reaching for the chords that causes pauses in your playing, you should continue to practice the left hand separately until you can reach those chords - at whatever tempo is comfortable - without having to pause.

Regards,


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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: squidbot] #2803816
01/19/19 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by squidbot
It sounding good, I think you're picking it up faster than I did when I started with it! I think I spent the first two weeks just playing the left hand by itself over and over trying to figure out how to make those jumps.


I practice at least one hour every day. Making those leaps was hard for me at the beginning but my teacher of one lesson so far gave me some good pointers. Just a week ago I couldn't believe my hands could do such leaps.

Originally Posted by squidbot
My advice would be start thinking about bringing the left hand down in volume versus the right.


My hands are at the stage where I am focusing about 95% where to place the fingers and the strength is what it is. Thank you for the tips and yes, I am trying to control the volume.

Originally Posted by squidbot
And good ambition on the Waltz book, funny I did the same thing (though not the Henle, the Palmer/Alfred.) I will tell you, every single one is currently beyond my ability but it's an "aspiration" book for me.


Yes, feels good to have it on the piano stand and gives me motivation.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Moo :)] #2803817
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
You are progressing ok.

I think pausing every time you have a hard part you should try and avoid and the best way to do this is to play much slower.

I would suggest you slow down the rhythm to play slower and steady.

I actually would not worry about anything else at this stage.

A few smaller things

- Bar 4 has an ornament in the right hand
- The second time around (Bar 7) the left hand G7 changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9oPjsqR5EE

What about the rest of the piece ?


Yes I have tried to play slower but the same happens. I guess it must be some kind of problem with the thought process as with the G7 my thought are lost, doesn't matter if I play slow or faster. When I woke up this morning I practiced a little along with the altered G7 on the second time (thanks for that note) and the G7 came out a lot better than on my last recording. I am also starting to pick up on the ornaments wink

The way I practice is in pieces. I want to handle portion first before moving along to the end. Otherwise it just seems too much to grasp.

Last edited by Artur Gajewski; 01/19/19 04:38 AM.

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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Moo :)] #2803820
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
Ok.

But if an ornament was so difficult - I would have suggested the simplified version.

It seems a very hard piece for a first lesson. It took me a few years of lessons until I could play fur elise and something of this level.


It is very hard piece for me to learn, yes. But as I am progressing it seems that what I already know becomes easier. Also, my left hand was never a strong case since I started playing piano by accompanying songs on youtube by playing triads with right hand and only base notes in two octaves with left hands pinky and thumb. Now that I need to use the middle finger as well and make leaps, it brings up a challenge but my finders are getting used to the work smile


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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: johnstaf] #2803821
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
When you talk about the difficulty of leaps in the left hand, remember that this is typical Chopin, so when you conquer this waltz, you are opening the door to many other pieces too. If you ever feel like a piece is too much like work, remember there's a whole world of pieces that you are opening up for yourself as you tackle each difficulty.


Yes I have noticed this and realised that once my left hand becomes a team player as well, I will be able to enjoy so much more.

Last edited by Artur Gajewski; 01/19/19 04:43 AM.

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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: BruceD] #2803823
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski
Here is my progress since my last recording: http://arturgajewski.com/rec/Chopin%20-%20Waltz%20in%20A%20Minor%20-%20Progress%202.mp3

What do you guys think? It's getting easier, especially first two chords. For some reason G7 is really hard to play, I quite often play G, B, E or G, C, F.


May I assume that you are occasionally practicing the left hand alone? Since it is the left hand reaching for the chords that causes pauses in your playing, you should continue to practice the left hand separately until you can reach those chords - at whatever tempo is comfortable - without having to pause.

Regards,


I do, infact that is how I first started with this waltz. My teacher instructed to hit the bottom A note, then take the leap and position all three fingers to Am chord but not press them yet. Just keep this in that position for a second or two until I am satisfied with how the fingers are position. Then instead of pressing with fingers, let the wrist just drop and make the fingers press the keys.

I repeated the first leap probably couple hundred times and then continued to next one, etc... Then I moved on to all four leaps as played.

The problem might not actually be that my fingers can't find the correct chords as they do when I play only left hand. When I take the right hand into play, the third leap seems to block my thought process.

I'm not sure if I know how to explain this exactly smile

Last edited by Artur Gajewski; 01/19/19 04:48 AM.

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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803922
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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803947
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Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski


That's considerably steadier than the previous rendition and therefore shows progress. How much of the Waltz are you able to play in this manner?

Regards,


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Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2803948
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Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski
Yes I have tried to play slower but the same happens. I guess it must be some kind of problem with the thought process as with the G7 my thought are lost, doesn't matter if I play slow or faster. When I woke up this morning I practiced a little along with the altered G7 on the second time (thanks for that note) and the G7 came out a lot better than on my last recording. I am also starting to pick up on the ornaments wink

The way I practice is in pieces. I want to handle portion first before moving along to the end. Otherwise it just seems too much to grasp.


It sounds a lot lot better today.; The tempo was steady and you dont have the hestitation. How did you manage it in 1 day ?!

Try to keep it at a slow tempo and steady. Never be tempted to speed up until you can play the hard parts really well - really a good lesson to learn !

I actually also learn my pieces in blocks so I think its ok. Normally it is because I only practice a piece from what I do in the lesson. The only problem is that often the beginning is much better than the end. I normally have to limit tempo to ensure it is ok.

Music is really ruined if you try and race through and it is much better to keep it slow and play it properly. Speed is normally the last thing I work on. Especially in this piece where it gets harder and you are likely to struggle I would not increase the tempo at all.

Bar 7 where the chord changes this is more difficult but it really is not a big issue. You need to slow down time and play as slow as you need to until you can do it without hestitation. It hands separately as Bruce suggested and practice. If you practice on something really really slowly you can do it.

If you ever have this problem of hesitation slow down the tempo more and play it steady. Would be intereested to see the progress. GOod luck.

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: BruceD] #2803951
01/19/19 12:38 PM
01/19/19 12:38 PM
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Artur Gajewski Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Artur Gajewski


That's considerably steadier than the previous rendition and therefore shows progress. How much of the Waltz are you able to play in this manner?

Regards,


This is all that I know so far.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Moo :)] #2803957
01/19/19 12:44 PM
01/19/19 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
It sounds a lot lot better today.; The tempo was steady and you dont have the hestitation. How did you manage it in 1 day ?!


I practiced this for total of three hours today. When I finally was able to manage to play it like this multiple times in a row, I was happy to end my day with the piano laugh

Originally Posted by Moo :)
I actually also learn my pieces in blocks so I think its ok. Normally it is because I only practice a piece from what I do in the lesson. The only problem is that often the beginning is much better than the end. I normally have to limit tempo to ensure it is ok.


Yes this is the the case for me with Fur Elise. I play the first 16 bars from muscle memory and the next 16 bars is little harder to play since I haven't practiced it so much.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Moo :)] #2804120
01/19/19 06:57 PM
01/19/19 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
Try to keep it at a slow tempo and steady. Never be tempted to speed up until you can play the hard parts really well - really a good lesson to learn !
There's nothing wrong with practicing some parts at different speeds. The important thing is not to practice a given part at a speed where one makes lots of errors.

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2808073
01/29/19 05:06 AM
01/29/19 05:06 AM
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My "picking it up again progress". I tried something different today which was rendering it with Pianoteq Steinway D. I don't know if I did a great job with the software, it sounds a bit twangy, or maybe it's just my playing.

On the actual playing side, I need to work on hitting the trills more consistently. I also have some overall dynamics issues, but it's good to listen because I can hear them and try to correct.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A8XvKXUVwRv-dRJ4fhHoWGs2qaTh6cDX/view?usp=sharing


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2808272
01/29/19 04:41 PM
01/29/19 04:41 PM
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It is sounding more even, nice.

What does it mean 'rendering with pianoteq' ?

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Moo :)] #2808313
01/29/19 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
It is sounding more even, nice.

What does it mean 'rendering with pianoteq' ?


Thanks!

And by that, I mean I recorded a MIDI file of myself playing, loaded that file in to the Pianoteq software (a piano emulator) and then used a feature to basically have Pianoteq play the MIDI file and make a sound file.

In my first clip earlier in the thread I directly recorded a sound file to a USB drive on the digital piano. I've found that what the DP records pales in comparison to the sound that the DP produces through its speakers or through headphones, and in fact I think it sounds downright lousy. There is obviously some additional sound processing that goes on before it plays over speakers that isn't captured in its sound file recordings, because the DP sounds lovely live.


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2808324
01/29/19 07:46 PM
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Ok sounds very technical !

There is some really nice phrasing and rubato which is sounding very nice.

I would not worry too much about polishing this piece, to play it very well it is very tricky.

I think some of the faster runs and grace notes is the areas that need a lot of work in this piece.

This is beautiful interpretation of this so I thought I'd share.



Enjoy

Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2808468
01/30/19 03:43 AM
01/30/19 03:43 AM
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I am facing some problems with my fingers on this piece. It seems playing the same song day to day everyday has done the trick and now my fingers constantly make stupid mistakes when earlier I was doing just fine. I feel sad about this since I really love this waltz and am not even feeling tired of it.


- Artur Gajewski

Working on:
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Chopin - Waltz in A minor
Re: Chopin - Waltz in A Minor [Re: Artur Gajewski] #2820184
02/26/19 03:59 AM
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My latest practice of this piece: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sAordsjbHcsRAxPJzuUxiPMwnD_XV5a6/view?usp=sharing

There are a few bumps (I almost played the third section a third time, doh!) but there's a lot I'm happy with. It's feeling much more fluent and I think I've got the left/right hand balance dialed in.


𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
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