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Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? #2786821
12/01/18 06:01 PM
12/01/18 06:01 PM
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Morten Olsson Offline OP
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I’m a beginner player. I currently play a digital piano that I quite enjoy but even so I have decided that I would like to try a real acoustic instrument instead. On an emotional level the idea speaks to me and from the limited hands on experience I’ve had with acoustics I enjoy the added aliveness of the sound compared to my digital.

To start out I’m going to rent for a year with an option to buy after 12 months and an option to get a refund if I upgrade to a more expensive acoustic within 5 years.

I had initially decided on a new or newish Kawai K15 which I rather liked but when trying out what the shop had available today I found out they have a new K300 ATX 2 for basically the same price as the K15. The reason for the price is some limited cosmetic damage to one back corner of the piano. The damage is purely cosmetic and not something that bothers me in the least.

It seems a very nice instrument and I really liked the feel and sound even if the sound is quite soft / muted on The higher notes. The seller tells me this is normal for new instruments because the felt on the hammers is soft to begin with and the sound will change a bit once it has been played more. He adviced against having it voiced by a tech too early because one could end up overshooting the target so to say and said I should probably play it for at least half a year before having it voiced.

The silent function would mean that I could sell my digital so that’s a plus. I quite like the idea of being able to do all my playing on a single instrument instead of having to keep a digital around for quiet practice.

The thing I find hard to assess is if the ATX 2 system makes the instrument harder to tune and / or adjust or if there are any other issues with this compared to an instrument without this feature.

I have reserved the instrument and will probably make the deal unless I’m missing something obvious that makes this a bad idea - any words of wisdom ?

Best regards
Morten

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Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2786825
12/01/18 06:28 PM
12/01/18 06:28 PM
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Whether with the ATX or not, an acoustic piano is much more satisfying compared to a digital. After awhile you won't want to play your digital or if you go with the ATX you will not use it in the digital mode.
But of course having a silent mode is good for practicing late at night.
That said an acoustic piano sounds good if it is properly tuned.
Also I wouldn't rely on a promised voicing. You should better pick an instrument that you already like the tone when you play it at the store.

Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2786827
12/01/18 06:34 PM
12/01/18 06:34 PM
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Oakland
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The ATX system itself could require extra maintenance, but I doubt it would affect maintaining the acoustic piano mechanisms. If the treble is a little soft, that is likely to work itself out.


Semipro Tech
Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2786833
12/01/18 06:49 PM
12/01/18 06:49 PM
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Germany
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Morten, seeing that you are from Denmark, maybe there's a chance that you understand enough of this guy's German to understand his explanation of the drawback that upright silent systems have on the regulation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFaQLqOc61U

I'm not aware that the ATX system does not have the same drawback, so you should make sure that you really are happy with the piano's touch in acoustic (non-silent) mode, especially when playing pp,.

Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2786842
12/01/18 07:19 PM
12/01/18 07:19 PM
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Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Well that certainly is thought provoking.
There wasn’t a new K300 without ATX I could compare it to so I really have no idea how compromised the acoustic action is - or if it is even something I can easily detect at my beginners skill level.

Part of me wants a “pure” analogue instrument with no added bells or whistles but that would probably mean choosing the K15 over the K300 ATX2 - and if those were the options I would think the K300 would be the preferable choice.

Hmmmmmm.

Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2786849
12/01/18 07:36 PM
12/01/18 07:36 PM
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Norway
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Kawai Don on the forum answered this in an earlier post: http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...e-acoustic-action-kawai.html#Post2456019

In short: yes, there is a difference. It’s very subtle, but it’s there. The difference is about playing ppp - I would say even quieter than pp. That can be more difficult on an upright with a silent system, compared to other uprights with an action that is very well regulated.

But I think that most people won’t notice any difference. My wife, which has played piano for three years, doesn’t notice it at all. I have played for 30 years and play a lot of expressive improvised music, so I notice it if I think about it - but as said, it’s subtle.

I have very much enjoyed playing on uprights with silent systems. I’ve played on silent-uprights which had an action and a responsiveness which vastly outperformed most non-silent uprights. I’m considering getting a Kawai silent myself, for the reasons you mention - being able to practice at the same piano all the time, with or without headphones. Still, the ultimate solution from an action standpoint remains a “pure” acoustic and a DP on the side. But that’s much more cumbersome!

Also, like you say, acoustics win sound-wise over digital every time smile


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2786862
12/01/18 07:55 PM
12/01/18 07:55 PM
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Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Thank you so much everyone.
Cant wait to get my hands on the thing now smile

Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2786997
12/02/18 11:00 AM
12/02/18 11:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 652
Southern California
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You should be getting a very good discount as the digital system is two generations old. This sounds in the ATX2 are the same found in the CA95 and the CA10. Not that they are bad, just older than the new sound engines and touch display in the ATX3. Which are the same as in the new NV10 and the CA78. I would consider the
K300 ATX2 at close to the same price as the K300 without the silent system. Whatever you decide you are getting one great piano in the K300. Congratulations!


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Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2787021
12/02/18 12:05 PM
12/02/18 12:05 PM
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Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Dont care too much about the quality of the sampled sounds to be honest and I would hate to have a visible touch display permanently embedded in my piano smile

Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2787039
12/02/18 01:47 PM
12/02/18 01:47 PM
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Posts: 92
Norway
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oivavoi Offline
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I have played both the ATX2 and the ATX3. I have the CS10 at home, which has the same samples as the ATX2. My two cents: I actually prefer the non-touch display of the ATX2 and CS10.

The samples are somewhat better in the new models though. But subjectively I don’t perceive the difference to be large. The main weakness of current DP models is the speakers and the inbuilt sound engine, and the action (except the superb action of the NV10). But the samples are decent actually. For even more playability and expressiveness it is anyway better to seek out Pianoteq 6 which is not sample-based.

That said, this is a good time to get an ATX2 piano for a good price, given that it’s a discontinued model. I have been lusting for this baby for example: https://www.thomann.de/gb/kawai_k_500_atx_2_e_p_piano.htm
It’s a very good price for that piano. But I’m rather picky about uprights, so I’m hesitant to take the chance on a piano I’ve never played. (I’ve played on three K500s, and they had their subtle differences)

Last edited by oivavoi; 12/02/18 01:47 PM.

Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2787044
12/02/18 02:01 PM
12/02/18 02:01 PM
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Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Can the ATX2 system be completely removed if I should decide to buy the piano after renting it and the electronics die ?

Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2787069
12/02/18 03:18 PM
12/02/18 03:18 PM
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Norway
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oivavoi Offline
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Yes, it can be removed. But no, it won’t die smile


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2787388
12/03/18 02:58 PM
12/03/18 02:58 PM
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Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Delivery confirmed early January - really really really looking forward to replacing the “perfect” digital sounds with the organic, imperfect beautiful sounds of an acoustic instrument.
At this rate I’ll end up with a grand before I’m 50 wink

Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2797994
01/03/19 06:41 AM
01/03/19 06:41 AM
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Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Just took delivery of a lovely K300 ATX2 - it is simply wonderful :-) Posted a pic in the new piano forum.
Thanks again for your kind help.

Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 ? [Re: Morten Olsson] #2798022
01/03/19 08:41 AM
01/03/19 08:41 AM
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Just took delivery of a lovely K300 ATX2 - it is simply wonderful :-) Posted a pic in the new piano forum.
Thanks again for your kind help.


Congratulations and enjoy your new piano!


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Re: Any reason not to get a K300 ATX 2 [Re: Morten Olsson] #2798034
01/03/19 09:24 AM
01/03/19 09:24 AM
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Southern California
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Morton, congratulations! That is a fine piano. Using headphones, I used to play the K200 ATX2 with the upright sound. It’s sampled from a K60 and just felt appropriate playing Hoagy Carmichael. cool Enjoy!


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Kawai Novus NV10

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