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Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: TomInCinci] #2795666
12/27/18 07:15 AM
12/27/18 07:15 AM
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Posts: 413
Hershey, PA, USA
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Originally Posted by TomInCinci
...
I had a neighbor once who was my arch enemy. I was blasting some rock and roll one day when I heard a violent pounding on the front door. It was the police. He saw how far it was to the nearest house and knew the complaint was ridiculous. He asked me to help out by turning it down a little and to agree that he wouldn't need to return...


Was your neighbor your "arch enemy" primarily because you frequently "blasted some Rock & Roll" ?

The complaint wasn't ridiculous if the neighbor lives as far away as you seem to imply and could still hear your blasted R&R...sounds like it might have been very legitimate.

It's always important to keep in mind the old rule that your rights end where your neighbors begin...this used to be called "common courtesy" or "mutual respect". You have the right to blast your music as loud as you please, but you don't have the "right" to force anyone else to listen against their will (no matter what you think this says about their tastes).

Last edited by Handyman; 12/27/18 07:17 AM.

John

"Difficulties deferred and challenges unmet will eventually return with a vengeance to bite one in the butt." (paraphrasing Chopin)
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Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Handyman] #2795685
12/27/18 08:28 AM
12/27/18 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Handyman
Originally Posted by TomInCinci
...
I had a neighbor once who was my arch enemy. I was blasting some rock and roll one day when I heard a violent pounding on the front door. It was the police. He saw how far it was to the nearest house and knew the complaint was ridiculous. He asked me to help out by turning it down a little and to agree that he wouldn't need to return...


Was your neighbor your "arch enemy" primarily because you frequently "blasted some Rock & Roll" ?

The complaint wasn't ridiculous if the neighbor lives as far away as you seem to imply and could still hear your blasted R&R...sounds like it might have been very legitimate.

It's always important to keep in mind the old rule that your rights end where your neighbors begin...this used to be called "common courtesy" or "mutual respect". You have the right to blast your music as loud as you please, but you don't have the "right" to force anyone else to listen against their will (no matter what you think this says about their tastes).


No. It was a property line dispute that began when I bought the place and stopped everyone from using my woods as their own. Little old Bose 301s (inside the house), and nearly 200 feet through the woods to said neighbor's house. There are lawn companies that starting mowing and using leaf blowers before 8 a.m. here. There are neighbors who mow after dark (to beat the heat?). People terrify my dogs with fireworks displays that some municipalities would envy. These things violate any sense of common courtesy IMHO, but I chose to live in the suburbs and these things aren't worth going to war over, at least for me. Anyone in this neighborhood could have chosen to move to the country and live in peace. Instead, we tolerate each other and don't spend half our lives driving to the grocery. If I want to play some music on Saturday afternoon I damn sure will. The cops agreed but asked me to turn it down to let them concentrate on more important things. They don't 'ask', at least around here, when the complaint is legit. It wasn't a stack of Marshall amps set up in the back yard.

Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2795705
12/27/18 09:51 AM
12/27/18 09:51 AM
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Florida
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Fireworks freak my dog out also; impact glass helps. Very thick but costly...we did it for the hurricanes and the sound insulation was an added benefit. The Marshall Stack sounds like a great idea though!


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Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: cmb13] #2795707
12/27/18 10:01 AM
12/27/18 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Fireworks freak my dog out also; impact glass helps. Very thick but costly...we did it for the hurricanes and the sound insulation was an added benefit. The Marshall Stack sounds like a great idea though!


Hey, if we pipe me practicing in F minor into a stack of Marshalls I'll bet we can persuade your neighbors to give up fireworks permanently!

Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2795712
12/27/18 10:46 AM
12/27/18 10:46 AM
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Florida
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Funny you mention F min - that's the set of scales I'm working on now! Just tackled Fm, Cm, Gm scales this week. Then Bbm, Ebm and I'm done with the minors. Very exciting.

Those stacks are nice though, and loud!!!


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Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: TomInCinci] #2795718
12/27/18 11:01 AM
12/27/18 11:01 AM
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Hershey, PA, USA
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Originally Posted by TomInCinci
... If I want to play some music on Saturday afternoon I damn sure will...


And so you should - just don't include your neighbors in the party unless they're willing...



Originally Posted by TomInCinci
... It wasn't a stack of Marshall amps set up in the back yard.



Well, set it up - maybe your neighbor can do the same - then you can have a royal battle of the amps - that should be exciting, and should last until you blow out the amps, or your eardrums, whichever comes first... laugh

Last edited by Handyman; 12/27/18 11:01 AM.

John

"Difficulties deferred and challenges unmet will eventually return with a vengeance to bite one in the butt." (paraphrasing Chopin)
Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2795720
12/27/18 11:26 AM
12/27/18 11:26 AM
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, and never go out on the deck nekkid... There's just so many rules in the suburbs! smile

Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2795738
12/27/18 12:24 PM
12/27/18 12:24 PM
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Making noise is not a crime and none of my neighbors worry about if I can hear their T.V.'s, kid's,, wood working machines, leaf blowers and/or ping-pong tables. The fact that you worry about the landlord suggest you thing you're breaking a rule or law. You're not. There is no right to silence and others don't get to pick and choose what they get to hear or not. Our practicing is no more or less offensive than the leaf blowers or the T.V that's on loud enough in the sitting room to be heard in the kitchen.

Keeping to "normal" hours is good manners. Limiting your fullest enjoyment of life because you're worried about other peoples feelings is, as the english put it, mental.

Kurt


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Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Handyman] #2795745
12/27/18 12:33 PM
12/27/18 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Handyman
Originally Posted by TomInCinci
... If I want to play some music on Saturday afternoon I damn sure will...


And so you should - just don't include your neighbors in the party unless they're willing...



Originally Posted by TomInCinci
... It wasn't a stack of Marshall amps set up in the back yard.



Well, set it up - maybe your neighbor can do the same - then you can have a royal battle of the amps - that should be exciting, and should last until you blow out the amps, or your eardrums, whichever comes first... laugh


Around here, House shows for bands are a thing. Usually they're in pretty manky neighborhoods but my son wanted to have one. His tastes and his band friends lean towards punk/ska/alternative. We live in a suburby suburb. We sent cookies and a note to all the neighbors within a block. We explained what we were doing and that at 9:00 we would be going acoustic and at would be done by 10:00 as per the noise regulations of our city. It started at 4:00. We allowed no one to loiter on the street and no visible drinking outside the yard. The police were called at about 7:00. They came, met us, heard our story as I'm telling it to you they listened to the full band with drums and PA for a few moments from the street, said we were in compliance and left us alone.

Kurt


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Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2795746
12/27/18 12:34 PM
12/27/18 12:34 PM
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A last thought about this:

There's an old Chinese proverb that goes: If your neighbor offends you, buy
each of his children a drum."


**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: KurtZ] #2795779
12/27/18 01:42 PM
12/27/18 01:42 PM
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Posts: 2,996
Florida
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Originally Posted by KurtZ
A last thought about this:

There's an old Chinese proverb that goes: If your neighbor offends you, buy
each of his children a drum."


Love it!


Steinway A3
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"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: KurtZ] #2795823
12/27/18 03:11 PM
12/27/18 03:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 413
Hershey, PA, USA
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Originally Posted by KurtZ
... There is no right to silence...


But, then an obligation to listen to any and all noise you generate?


Originally Posted by KurtZ
... and others don't get to pick and choose what they get to hear or not.



So, you get to do that for them? How delightfully authoritarian!


John

"Difficulties deferred and challenges unmet will eventually return with a vengeance to bite one in the butt." (paraphrasing Chopin)
Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Handyman] #2795863
12/27/18 04:52 PM
12/27/18 04:52 PM
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Reseda, California
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Originally Posted by KurtZ
... There is no right to silence...


But there is a thing in the law called "Quiet Enjoyment" -- how quiet varies with location.....


-- J.S.

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Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2795864
12/27/18 04:53 PM
12/27/18 04:53 PM
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I don't like the feel of a keyboard or digital piano at all. There was a very high quality digital piano at a recital I attended recently. I tested it to see what it was like. Maybe I'm a snob too but it did not allow me to do the dynamics or phrasing like I would prefer too. I've used keyboards to accompany singers in the past and have also found them unenjoyable.

I do find that when my family is home that it is harder for me to practice then when they aren't home. For me it is less about worrying about how I sound to them and a lot more about the distractions that having them home bring. The kids screaming in the background as they play. The husband loading the dishwasher in the next room or cooking. Etc... So I tend to do most of my practicing during the day when they aren't home. I do use when they are hear as "proofing" before a recital because I figure if I can play with all that chaos and distracting then I'll be better off at a recital.

I played a piano in an apartment for years and I don't think I ever had a complaint. Probably 10 years???? I was on the lowest level in a corner. I put the piano on the wall that didn't have a neighbor.

Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: JohnSprung] #2795866
12/27/18 05:01 PM
12/27/18 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnSprung
Originally Posted by KurtZ
... There is no right to silence...


But there is a thing in the law called "Quiet Enjoyment" -- how quiet varies with location.....




I may need to hit you guys up for bail money some fall when the leaves are heavy. I make enough noise to want to take swing at myself...

But I live in the suburbs. Modern life is not silent.

Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2795933
12/27/18 09:39 PM
12/27/18 09:39 PM
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Posts: 246
Norfolk UK
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I think most neighbours are reasonable, but there’s always the odd one some people are unlucky enough to run into.

The sort where you’ve lived in your apartment for the last 15 years, never had a single complaint or sarcastic comment about noise from the 5 different families who have been your neighbours over that time, then a new family move in and complain about everything. TV too loud, music too loud etc etc etc.

Thankfully I’ve never experienced that myself, but do know someone who has.

I live in a mid terraced house in the uk, think of a row of houses all joined together, hence have neighbours directly either side.

I try to be curtious to my neighbours, when I know they are out, I will make a lot more noise than when I know they are home.

The few times I know there will be noise (eg, daughter arriving home for Christmas at about 2am and I know my 3 dogs are going to be so excited, there will be noise), I go to my neighbours and apologise in advance. They always tell me not to worry, one always says “you make noise sometimes, I make a lot of noise other times, who cares, don’t worry, we’re all loud sometimes”

I don’t play either my piano or keyboards/synth past 9pm without using headphones. If my neighbours had young kids that went to bed earlier, I would use the headphones earlier.

Common sense and a bit of give and take.

But, some people are affected by noise more than others. My wife falls asleep within about 30 seconds of hitting the pillow and a bomb could go off and she wouldn’t wake up. The neighbours could be having an all night party (previous neighbours son often did when his mum was working away), it made zero difference to my wife. I have real trouble sleeping for numerous reasons, but hearing thumping music coming through the wall when her son did this, again for me, I wasn’t bothered in the slightest (I actually find it therapeutic).

But one of my sisters gets woken up by the slightest noise, and had she lived here, she would have been complaining to them non stop. That doesn’t make her actions wrong, it’s simply noise affects her differently.

For years I worked 12 hr night shifts and slept during the day, everyday thousands of people do similar hours. For us, there’s no peace during the day, car horns, sirens, neighbours mowing lawns, music blaring out etc and we just have to learn to adapt and sleep through it. Then many of us who do work these unsociable hours, make a little too much noise on one occasion, and get a letter of complaint put through the door (again not happened to me, but I know fellow shift workers who have had this happen)

Was over my aunts house a few weeks ago. Her son had put up a dartboard right against the neighbours wall. Of course that’s going to annoy the neighbours. But how did the neighbour act, he knocked on the door, was very cheerful, very polite, said he didn’t want to spoil her sons fun, but did her son mind moving the dart board to one of the other walls. She wasn’t aware about the noise it was making, couldn’t have been more apologetic and she got her son to both apologise and move the dart board. That’s how neighbours should behave, it’s so much better if we can all get along.

Sadly a few neighbours I hear about don’t seem to want to get along and seem to thrive on conflict frown

Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Ojustaboo] #2796033
12/28/18 08:09 AM
12/28/18 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ojustaboo

Was over my aunts house a few weeks ago. Her son had put up a dartboard right against the neighbours wall. Of course that’s going to annoy the neighbours. But how did the neighbour act, he knocked on the door, was very cheerful, very polite, said he didn’t want to spoil her sons fun, but did her son mind moving the dart board to one of the other walls. She wasn’t aware about the noise it was making, couldn’t have been more apologetic and she got her son to both apologise and move the dart board. That’s how neighbours should behave, it’s so much better if we can all get along. frown


Amen. You won't always get your way and you'll be sent packing with the wrong neighbor but you handle it face to face.

Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2796174
12/28/18 01:41 PM
12/28/18 01:41 PM
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Sybille

I think you might be quite surprised as to what your neighbors/landlord feel about your practicing.

I would be willing to guess that they will tell you that, in actual fact, they enjoy hearing you - and are indeed envious of your musical abilities, regardless of what you may feel about those "skills".

Everyone loves music. They may not love classical music as you and I do - but they love music. And I find that they are in awe of those of us who can play anything at all - even what we consider "beginner level" pieces.

And, I understand fully your opinion about digitals. I used to think the same.

But my wife and I are downsizing and will be living in a condominium in the near future. I will not be taking my grand piano with us, unfortunately.

For what it is worth - here is my plan. I will be purchasing a Kawai MP7SE (maybe an MP11SE but it is quite a bit more expensive). I will learn the notes and fingering of a piece on the digital - with headphones. Then, at least twice per week - maybe more frequently, maybe every day - I plan to go to 2 or more nearby churches, etc that have fine grand pianos and practice there as well. I have practiced there previously and they are very, very welcoming.

I think that in this way I will have the best of both worlds.

I did have a digital - a pretty good one - at my disposal for just a few weeks a couple of years ago. I practiced with headphones, even though my wife says that my practicing never bothers her - even when she is having her nap after lunch. You know what - looking back, I think the fact that I was able to repeat passages over and over without bothering anyone actually was quite beneficial.

Just a thought.


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Furtwangler] #2796206
12/28/18 02:52 PM
12/28/18 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Furtwangler
Sybille

I think you might be quite surprised as to what your neighbors/landlord feel about your practicing.

I would be willing to guess that they will tell you that, in actual fact, they enjoy hearing you - and are indeed envious of your musical abilities, regardless of what you may feel about those "skills".

Everyone loves music. They may not love classical music as you and I do - but they love music. And I find that they are in awe of those of us who can play anything at all - even what we consider "beginner level" pieces.
I couldn't disagree more.

Even if it was a great professional pianist practicing, I would quickly tire of hearing this. Even it was a great pianist playing through rep he knows well I would quickly tire.

I think most people don't want to listen to music unless they choose what and when they listen.

But, as I said earlier, I think apartment living means that one has to put up with musicians who practice at reasonable hours and for a reasonable amount of time. Both sides have some rights in this situation.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/28/18 02:57 PM.
Re: Not wanting to be overheard [Re: Sibylle] #2796751
12/30/18 12:59 PM
12/30/18 12:59 PM
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I am now composing and still playing (not that well:)), but the other day my wife and her friend came in from her quilting studio, as I was playing through my studio speakers with 400 watt sub which even at reasonable levels vibrates the house. Later she came in and said it was cool having someone playing the piano as they came in to the house. I'm lucky and one house is 25' away, and the other about 40' but I don't play with open windows nor do I play through the system other than mid-day. Mostly head phone on my digital. A neighbor is a professional and once or twice a summer they have a concert with fellow professional musicians and play for several hours - his grand and the other instruments fill the woods where I live, greatly appreciated. However, he never plays where we can here. If I lived in an area, like apartments of town homes I'd certainly go digital headphones as every city I know of has noise level ordinances and times where most levels of sounds heard between living quarters are restricted. Just not worth causing the kind of confrontations that have become frequent in today's world IMHO. And the key is that anyone here in the US can file a law suite and it is a very expensive proposition to defend one's self.


Jeff
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