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That's pretty impressive, to be able to arrange that with so many members.
By the way GP84- saw your post in the Christmas thread the other day...Excellent points you made. Haven't ever kept it for those very reasons. Was thinking about shooting you a message to talk to you more on that topic, but couldn't private message you (says you don't accept them). Anyway, way to go with your testimony. Not a very popular position (know from experience).
That's pretty impressive, to be able to arrange that with so many members.
By the way GP84- saw your post in the Christmas thread the other day...Excellent points you made. Haven't ever kept it for those very reasons. Was thinking about shooting you a message to talk to you more on that topic, but couldn't private message you (says you don't accept them). Anyway, way to go with your testimony. Not a very popular position (know from experience).
Glad to hear you do not celebrate "Christmas" either as it is certainly not a popular stance to take when everyone thinks you are crazy or an atheist (or, whatever else) which is not at all true. There are many real christians who also do not celebrate the secular and pagan holiday that everyone knows as Christmas and many simply have no idea as to what it is really about!
OT:
[Sad news]
Now dealing with crime in my neighborhood as there are at least half a dozen police cars and a large forensics van sitting out in front of my house right now as a 12 yr. old boy was shot and they are still questioning suspects as I write this. This is really not the place to discuss such issues although it does reflect the worsening conditions of crime in the US, in general. Do hope they catch the suspect in this shooting as the boy is in critical condition and may not make it. Will have to wait until 10:00 PM to get further updates in the news and see if there will be any more info as the police have been outside conducting their investigation over the last 5 hours or so as the vehicles have the street blocked off.
That's rough to have to deal with that... That's one thing I don't miss about having lived in town-- we are now out in the middle of nowhere, where nothing happens.
That's rough to have to deal with that... That's one thing I don't miss about having lived in town-- we are now out in the middle of nowhere, where nothing happens.
Extra note:
The good news it that I reside in the back of the house and if I hadn't gone to the front door earlier to check mail I would have not even known there was an issue outside as I cannot hear or see anything going on from the back rooms and this includes traffic going down the street. Having peace and quiet in this respect is a benefit!
Also, will not be long now until I can make payment to acquire the Baldwin SF-10 grand (as signed by Jorge Bolet).
That's rough to have to deal with that... That's one thing I don't miss about having lived in town-- we are now out in the middle of nowhere, where nothing happens.
Extra note:
The good news [it]* that I reside in the back of the house and if I hadn't gone to the front door earlier to check mail I would have not even known there was an issue outside as I cannot hear or see anything going on from the back rooms and this includes traffic going down the street. Having peace and quiet in this respect is a benefit!
Also, will not be long now until I can make payment to acquire the Baldwin SF-10 grand (as signed by Jorge Bolet).
Edit:
Not that it matters but I always end up somehow missing typing errors long after having added the post and this one was only one letter wrong -- should have been "is" instead of "it" -- as highlighted in brackets at the asterisk, above.
Anyone here knows if the musicians got paid for this performance?
Obviously, there were no tickets sold. But I read the rumor that the musicians were goaded into performing for free on their own time by the Opera North management.
Anyone here knows if the musicians got paid for this performance?
Obviously, there were no tickets sold. But I read the rumor that the musicians were goaded into performing for free on their own time by the Opera North management.
You read wrong.
In the UK, many orchestral musicians participate in outreach programs, playing in schools etc to inspire kids. They do that in their own time. Volunteers also do impromptu concerts etc in the style of a 'flashmob' in places like train stations, shopping malls, town squares etc, again to inspire the public. Nobody is "goaded" as you so cynically put it, though of course they hope that some of the audience might be inspired to try classical concerts. They talked about it on a TV program.
Unlike in Mars (or wherever you come from), some musicians, artistes, performers etc actually give free concerts etc purely for the love of it, and to inspire others and the next generation into the world of the arts.
I've seen a couple of 'flashmob' performances by professional orchestral musicians myself. They love what they do, and are happy to chat to members of the public afterwards. Believe it or not, not everything is about money.
BTW, I play a free recital every month for a non-musical audience of about 40. It never occurred to me to ask for payment, even though I was doing it at the request of the organizers, who first heard me play several years ago. I do it in a proselytizing role, to get people interested in classical music, in a completely 'non-elitist' atmosphere (- nobody (including myself) dresses up to attend, and they can even come and go as they like, though hardly anyone leaves before the recital is finished). And I've been reasonably successful in that regard, inspiring a number of people to start music lessons, as well as lapsed pianists to restart. People come to chat to me afterwards to ask about the music I played, the composers, etc. Another amateur musician (a classical guitarist) who saw me was himself inspired to help me out by performing in the same venue on the months when I'm away on expeditions.
OK, so the rumor was correct, they worked without compensation.
This is why the Musicians' Union (UK) has this "Work Not Play" awareness campaign.
Thanks again.
Your rumor was wrong.
They played to inspire and promote classical music to the general public. For the love of music, not for money. No-one was asked to do anything they didn't want to do, or couldn't do due to family commitments etc. The performers volunteered. Can you understand that, or is that too difficult for you to comprehend? Do you really think that classical musicians only perform for free if they're "forced" to? Is that what all professional musicians do in your neck of the woods?
Do you actually love music? (OK, I know you don't like classical music, and prefer electronic......)
Thankfully the Internet in the UK is not yet fully controlled like in the PRC and the Crown subjects citizens there are still free to post pseudonymously abroad and in the languages other than English.
Historically, it is like the former Soviet Union: volunteer or else ... the volunteers will be assigned by volunteerism committee.
Thankfully, in the UK, there are musicians (and artistes) who love their craft, and are willing to do what they can to promote it. For no immediate gains.
I have been the beneficiary myself once, when a national newspaper asked for qualified classical music teachers to volunteer to give free beginner lessons to members of the public, in a bid to promote classical music. I had a cello lesson - absolutely free, no strings attached.
Yes, I know, impossible for you to understand.
Incidentally, in the UK, no-one controls the internet (its inventor Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee, OM KBE FRS FREng FRSA FBCS gave his invention to the world for free, something you'd never understand), and people make full use of it - in English. They freely criticize and poke fun of politicians and people in the the public eye. Unfortunately, we have also been the victim of malicious hackers - mainly from other countries, who even tried to bring down national institutions like the NHS.
Did you not ask yourself - why would British people post stuff in a foreign language, when they can easily post anonymously in English? And you obviously don't know that very few British people are actually able to speak or write in another language - something that our European neighbors frequently criticize us for. I'm surprised that you are so gullible.
You would have a point if this was really some amateur video posted by some "stunned shopper". But I noticed a rather rare thing: 1.6K negatives versus 58K positives. For such a light-hearted video? What's up with that? It merited asking around.
The rest of the rumor are as follows:
- management of Opera North worked with an outside advertising agency - that agency apparently had experience in developing astroturfing and fake viral ad campaigns - the shopping gallery owners contributed from their advertising budget - the advertising, audio & video professionals were paid their regular rates and normally scheduled for work during on-location production and post-production - the musicians were given an "offer that they could not refuse" at the last moment and during hours that are normally their personal & family free time. Some of the "assigned volunteers" managed to find friends to substitute for them. That is apparently the reason why some parts of the performance are played by unprepared musicians performing below the usual professional standard. I would not be able to tell, as I can neither read the music at speed nor my ear is trained enough to recognize mistakes.
Of all the professionals involved in the production only the musicians haven't been paid. It really is unheard of to appear in the advertising spots without any compensation. It does look like a case of the workplace mobbing and that is why the Musicians' Union is taking a stance against such practices.
Is it? Really? It makes me sad that the love of the classical music makes people blind to the fate of those who try to make a living out of performing it.
I've seen a couple of 'flashmob' performances by professional orchestral musicians myself. They love what they do, and are happy to chat to members of the public afterwards. Believe it or not, not everything is about money.
Agreed, as this is why I posted the video -- as the performers are doing this to share music -- not make money.
You would have a point if this was really some amateur video posted by some "stunned shopper". But I noticed a rather rare thing: 1.6K negatives versus 58K positives. For such a light-hearted video? What's up with that? It merited asking around.
Of course this was completely preplanned, and a professional product which they intended to put on YT from the start. You can easily tell from the camera angles.
As I said, it was also meant to bring in audiences for classical music and for the orchestra involved.
Quote
The rest of the rumor are as follows:
- management of Opera North worked with an outside advertising agency
Of course they do.
All professional orchestras in the UK work with professional advertising agencies. I get glossy brochures from them all the time, and it's obvious they weren't produced by one of the musicians dabbling in advertising as a pastime in his bedroom.
Why do you think this is somehow immoral?
Quote
- that agency apparently had experience in developing astroturfing and fake viral ad campaigns - the shopping gallery owners contributed from their advertising budget - the advertising, audio & video professionals were paid their regular rates and normally scheduled for work during on-location production and post-production - the musicians were given an "offer that they could not refuse" at the last moment and during hours that are normally their personal & family free time. Some of the "assigned volunteers" managed to find friends to substitute for them. That is apparently the reason why some parts of the performance are played by unprepared musicians performing below the usual professional standard. I would not be able to tell, as I can neither read the music at speed nor my ear is trained enough to recognize mistakes.
Well, I can read the music, I know the piece very well, and can attest that all the musicians play their parts very well. BTW, the orchestra members were advertising........themselves.
There are many freelance musicians in the UK who substitute for established orchestral players when required. Guest leaders (concert masters) appear quite frequently, for example, especially in music the orchestra doesn't know well or normally play. I don't know the orchestra, but don't you think that if there were subs there who aren't well known to the regulars (i.e. they don't play with the band often) and are subpar, word would get around very quickly?
Maybe you should learn more about the working practices in the UK orchestral scene before making unfounded assumptions based on the expected practice in your own country (presumably, the US, judging by your spelling).
To underscore my points above I'll post three other videos with classical music performed in a shopping centre.
The soloist is David Garrett on violin. The accompanying piano player isn't named. The shopping mall is Harbour City in Hong Kong. The posting account belongs to some young guy from Hong Kong. The production values are decidedly amateur.
Maybe you should learn more about the working practices in the UK orchestral scene before making unfounded assumptions based on the expected practice in your own country.
This is just naive. From the depth of your naivete I surmise that I actually know more working musicians that you do. You seem to be just a wanna-be or a hanger-on. I prefer to trust my friends and the trades union propaganda campaign.
Originally Posted by bennevis
(its inventor Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee, OM KBE FRS FREng FRSA FBCS gave his invention to the world for free, something you'd never understand)
This is however offensively stupid. TimBL was paid by the CERN to do his W3C work. CERN is in turn paid for by the European taxpayers. If you can't understand those simple facts then you have a bigger problem.
Last edited by 90125; 12/31/1812:20 AM. Reason: clarification
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