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Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794681
12/23/18 08:52 PM
12/23/18 08:52 PM
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Posts: 6,953
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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This might become a non-issue if Chinese Govt-owned Poly Group buys S&S. They might not even be allowed to sell new Steinways in the US after that.


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Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: jarobi] #2794684
12/23/18 09:02 PM
12/23/18 09:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,454
๐ŸŽน
Retsacnal Offline

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Originally Posted by jarobi
Interesting that someone joins PW just to explain how reasonable Steinway is and that they're just trying to protect the consumer and we should be embracing their overreach and not challenge it legally. Hmmmm ..........

I'll confess that the same thought crossed my mind, but I guess we ought to give jebster the benefit of the doubt. I sure would love to see what IP address he's submitting from though. wink



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794685
12/23/18 09:03 PM
12/23/18 09:03 PM
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Posts: 4,454
๐ŸŽน
Retsacnal Offline

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I think that if they were planning to sell S&S to a foreign company, they wouldn't be clamping down in this way. But that's just my gut feeling.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Retsacnal] #2794686
12/23/18 09:05 PM
12/23/18 09:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I think that if they were planning to sell S&S to a foreign company, they wouldn't be clamping down in this way. But that's just my gut feeling.

Well they were thinking of selling to Poly Group, but it's true that could have just been a "trial balloon" and they aren't thinking that now.

However, when the floated the trial balloon, they did say they needed to spend 6 months getting S&S ready for a sale. This might be part of getting it ready.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794687
12/23/18 09:05 PM
12/23/18 09:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,454
๐ŸŽน
Retsacnal Offline

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There was once an after-market re-manufacturer (AMG) that did such a good job with Mercedes Benzes that Daimler bought them!



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2794694
12/23/18 09:29 PM
12/23/18 09:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
I think that if they were planning to sell S&S to a foreign company, they wouldn't be clamping down in this way. But that's just my gut feeling.

Well they were thinking of selling to Poly Group, but it's true that could have just been a "trial balloon" and they aren't thinking that now.

However, when the floated the trial balloon, they did say they needed to spend 6 months getting S&S ready for a sale. This might be part of getting it ready.



I was thinking the exact same thing. You never know...


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Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794695
12/23/18 09:32 PM
12/23/18 09:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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New Hampshire
Personally I find "potential sale" to be the only logical explanation for this conduct...maximize assets, minimize liabilities. Mop up perceived outside issues (particularly if a potential buyer has raised questions about it).

Otherwise, from a strictly business point of view it is an enemy-maker. So, let current management be the BAD guy...If a buyer decides to relax the position, they now become the GOOD guy in the marketplace...to their benefit.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: P W Grey] #2794699
12/23/18 09:40 PM
12/23/18 09:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,953
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,953
Originally Posted by P W Grey
Personally I find "potential sale" to be the only logical explanation for this conduct...maximize assets, minimize liabilities. Mop up perceived outside issues (particularly if a potential buyer has raised questions about it).

Otherwise, from a strictly business point of view it is an enemy-maker. So, let current management be the BAD guy...If a buyer decides to relax the position, they now become the GOOD guy in the marketplace...to their benefit.

Pwg

That makes a lot of sense. New management (PGC) can be the "white knights" who mitigate the policies of the old "bad" management.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794729
12/24/18 12:00 AM
12/24/18 12:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,454
๐ŸŽน
Retsacnal Offline

Platinum Supporter until Feb 18  2015
Retsacnal  Offline

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Posts: 4,454
๐ŸŽน
Maybe I was being too vague or coy. I mean it would indeed be ironic if a certain potential buyer were concerned with IP such as trademarks.



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794737
12/24/18 12:57 AM
12/24/18 12:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,295
Seattle, WA USA
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
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Seattle, WA USA
The problem with this Steinway strategy to enhance company value is if they bring a suit alleging infringement on the basis of "authenticity" of rebuild work against a competing rebuilder, they could easily be hit with a countersuit for restraint of trade and this carries the liability for triple damages against the company. Adding liabilities to the prospectus does not enhance sale value.

Last edited by Ed McMorrow, RPT; 12/24/18 12:58 AM. Reason: typo again!

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Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794775
12/24/18 08:22 AM
12/24/18 08:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
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jebster Offline
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First...I am not affiliated with Steinway or a piano dealer in any way as some people on the thread have speculated..just someone who is using a keyboard to learn and who may one day be in the market for an acoustic

Second, David-G your position is enlightening...i stand corrected and I'm sorry I missed that point......I must have missed the prior
comments about this Steinway policy adversely affecting individuals now owning rebuilt pianos. I agree 100% that it is not fair to them to change the rules midstream.

It just never occurred to me that Steinway would think it a good business practice to actually try to put restrictions on sales between two private individuals..I would think that just dealing with the shear volume of worldwide private sales would be daunting for Steinway. I had read their letter to mean sales between rebuilder business entities and their private buyers but in re-reading the letter it is certainly not clear they are making that distinction. Though in practical terms why would Steinway spend money suing me for example for selling a rebuilt to John Smith when Steinway did not receive any revenue from the transaction, and even if the lawsuit against me is successful, John Smith would receive his money not Steinway. These suits would be very expensive for Steinway and win or lose an enormous drain on their profit with no corresponding increase in revenue not to mention the PR nightmare they would cause.

As I said when I wrote my earlier posts I was focused on the rebuilder companies and thinking about what potential information I would need from them to make an informed purchase decision..So, I still think that full disclosure is warranted from the rebuilder companies since after all they would have just completed the rebuild at the time of my purchase

Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Retsacnal] #2794794
12/24/18 09:44 AM
12/24/18 09:44 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,228
Scotland
Beemer Offline
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Scotland
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
There was once an after-market re-manufacturer (AMG) that did such a good job with Mercedes Benzes that Daimler bought them!

Certainly says AMG on my wheels and car mats, but not on my Daimler-Benz engine frown
Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blรผthner Model A
Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT] #2794808
12/24/18 10:43 AM
12/24/18 10:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
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New Hampshire
Originally Posted by Ed McMorrow, RPT
The problem with this Steinway strategy to enhance company value is if they bring a suit alleging infringement on the basis of "authenticity" of rebuild work against a competing rebuilder, they could easily be hit with a countersuit for restraint of trade and this carries the liability for triple damages against the company. Adding liabilities to the prospectus does not enhance sale value.


Yes, this is all true IF they were to actually follow through and start suing people. I really do not think that's the "plan" except for here and there sending a "cease and desist" letter for obvious infringement. But at least this way they get to look tough and intimidating (like Clint Eastwood..."Go ahead, make my day").

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794837
12/24/18 12:38 PM
12/24/18 12:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,722
Danville, California
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Furtwangler Offline
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Danville, California
I think this whole thing has been quite useful to the piano shopping public if for no other reason than to illustrate how Steinway operates.

Get used to it, folks.


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794865
12/24/18 02:16 PM
12/24/18 02:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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P

Joined: Feb 2017
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New Hampshire
The whole thing makes me want to just close my shop, curl up in a corner and suck my thumb.

๐Ÿ˜ข

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: P W Grey] #2794882
12/24/18 02:42 PM
12/24/18 02:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,039
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
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Keith D Kerman Online content
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
The whole thing makes me want to just close my shop, curl up in a corner and suck my thumb.

๐Ÿ˜ข

Pwg


Honestly, that is a major objective of this approach. The answer is to compete harder and help people with all the far better options out there that additionally arent't threatening legal prosecution for doing perfectly reasonable things with ones own property.


Keith D Kerman
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Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794884
12/24/18 02:44 PM
12/24/18 02:44 PM
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Massachusetts
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Roy123 Offline
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Massachusetts
FWIW, IMO Steinway is capable of building great pianos, but they're also arrogant, and have had very poor quality at various periods.

Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: P W Grey] #2794887
12/24/18 03:00 PM
12/24/18 03:00 PM
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DanS Offline
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Originally Posted by P W Grey
The whole thing makes me want to just close my shop, curl up in a corner and suck my thumb.

๐Ÿ˜ข

Pwg

That's seems to be exactly what they want; a campaign of intimidation.

Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2794955
12/24/18 06:53 PM
12/24/18 06:53 PM
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Posts: 2,596
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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New Hampshire
I do know that. ๐Ÿ˜Ž

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Policy Letter from Steinway [Re: Larry Hofer] #2795010
12/24/18 10:48 PM
12/24/18 10:48 PM
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Posts: 1,907
Tennessee
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Ed Foote Offline
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Tennessee
Greetings,
I spoke with a lawyer that had read the letter, and his take is that Steinway is attempting a serious restraint of trade. He also mentioned that they will probably get sued if they tried to enforce their own "demands" on a private individual. His professional advice was to ignore them.
Regards,

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