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NV10 vs K500 #2768060
09/28/18 02:05 AM
09/28/18 02:05 AM
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Peter 512 Offline OP
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Hi,

I am trying to figure out what the difference between the NV10 and the Kawai K500 ATX-3 (apart that the K500 has an acoustic piano built in). the price difference in the UK is not much.
Is the digital part of the Novus and the K500 the same? Is the key action different?

also, the piano is for a small room, so will the K500 acoustic part be too loud for a small room?

Peter

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Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768063
09/28/18 03:07 AM
09/28/18 03:07 AM
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Germany
JoBert Offline
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The K-500 is an upright piano, so it has an upright piano action. The NV10 has a grand piano action.

I think the newer ATX3 has the same engines as the NV10, i.e. the latest SK-EX Rendering engine and the HiXL engine (with SK-EX, EX and SK-5).

Last edited by JoBert; 09/28/18 03:10 AM.
Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768066
09/28/18 03:20 AM
09/28/18 03:20 AM
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JoBert Offline
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To clarify my above post: The ATX3 and NV10 have indeed the same sound engines and touch screen user interface.

And I just remembered: In addition to the different action, another difference is, that with the NV10, you can play the digital sounds (and of course it only has digital sounds) both via headphones or without headphones (i.e. via speakers).

With the K-500 ATX3, you have to use headphones to hear the digital sounds. Without headphones, you can only hear the actual acoustic piano (as long as it isn't in silent mode, then you will only hear the action noises if you don't wear the headphones).

If you want to be able to also hear the digital sounds without headphones (and maybe even mix them with the acoustic sound), you would need the K-500 Aures instead, which has 4 transducers on the soundboard and thus uses the soundboard to also play back the digital sounds (unless in silent mode, of course).

Last edited by JoBert; 09/28/18 03:21 AM.
Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: JoBert] #2768081
09/28/18 04:17 AM
09/28/18 04:17 AM
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arc7urus Offline
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Originally Posted by JoBert
With the K-500 ATX3, you have to use headphones to hear the digital sounds. Without headphones, you can only hear the actual acoustic piano (as long as it isn't in silent mode, then you will only hear the action noises if you don't wear the headphones)..

You can also connect the ATX3 to external monitors/speakers. Not sure if the Aures version with transducers would be able to produce "better" sound (in terms of realism and sound quality) than a good set of external speakers. Are there any objective reviews of the Aures from a sound reproduction perspective?

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Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: JoBert] #2768085
09/28/18 04:36 AM
09/28/18 04:36 AM
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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JoBert is spot-on!


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

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Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Kawai James] #2768089
09/28/18 04:53 AM
09/28/18 04:53 AM
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Peter 512 Offline OP
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I thought on the K500 you can play the digital sounds via the transducer/soundboard , eg without additional speakers.

This will give then some case vibration for digital sounds, which you will not get from the NV 10 (same principal as Yamaha N2)

Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768090
09/28/18 05:07 AM
09/28/18 05:07 AM
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slobajudge Offline
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Yes you can if you go for K500 Aures. After VPC1 I consider very seriously to jump on K500 ATX3 very soon. Price is ok, and it has all. The same digital system as Novus and it is real. Except if I made move for Bluthner D with evolution silent system. The price is almost double compare to Kawai, unfortunately. My recommendation goes for Kawai k500 ATX3 or Aures against Novus.

Last edited by slobajudge; 09/28/18 05:10 AM.
Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768094
09/28/18 05:33 AM
09/28/18 05:33 AM
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JoBert Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter 512
I thought on the K500 you can play the digital sounds via the transducer/soundboard , eg without additional speakers.

Only with the K-500 Aures, not the with the K-500 ATX3.

Originally Posted by Peter 512
This will give then some case vibration for digital sounds, which you will not get from the NV 10 (same principal as Yamaha N2)

I can tell you, that you get lots of case vibrations with the NV10 when playing via speakers. smile

Originally Posted by slobajudge
My recommendation goes for Kawai k500 ATX3 or Aures against Novus.

There's still the difference of the action to consider (upright vs. grand).

Last edited by JoBert; 09/28/18 05:38 AM.
Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: JoBert] #2768097
09/28/18 05:53 AM
09/28/18 05:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,473
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by Peter 512
I thought on the K500 you can play the digital sounds via the transducer/soundboard , eg without additional speakers.

Only with the K-500 Aures, not the with the K-500 ATX3.

Originally Posted by Peter 512
This will give then some case vibration for digital sounds, which you will not get from the NV 10 (same principal as Yamaha N2)

I can tell you, that you get lots of case vibrations with the NV10 when playing via speakers. smile

Originally Posted by slobajudge
My recommendation goes for Kawai k500 ATX3 or Aures against Novus.

There's still the difference of the action to consider (upright vs. grand).


I think it's time to return to the planet whence I came . . . .(bangs head repeatedly against wall)


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Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768101
09/28/18 06:43 AM
09/28/18 06:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,199
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter 512
Hi,

I am trying to figure out what the difference between the NV10 and the Kawai K500 ATX-3 (apart that the K500 has an acoustic piano built in). the price difference in the UK is not much.
Is the digital part of the Novus and the K500 the same? Is the key action different?

also, the piano is for a small room, so will the K500 acoustic part be too loud for a small room?

Peter


Do you want to retune a piano periodically?
Also, is the digital part of the K500 Aures the equivalent in specification to the Novus, or are there differences in sounds available and functionality?


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768102
09/28/18 06:59 AM
09/28/18 06:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 8
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Peter 512 Offline OP
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I don’t mind retuning if I get a better physical experience with the instrument. I currently own a clavinova CLP 170, which has a nice sound, but just feels like a dead piece of wood to play.

anyway - looking at the aures, I don’t really understand the difference between K300, K500 and K600. Not sure what the terms “tone spreader”, “duplex scaling” and “agraffe” mean.

Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768108
09/28/18 07:34 AM
09/28/18 07:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,042
Germany
JoBert Offline
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Originally Posted by Doug M.
Also, is the digital part of the K500 Aures the equivalent in specification to the Novus, or are there differences in sounds available and functionality?

From all that one can tell from the specs and docs, it is equivalent, with the same sounds and features.
One minor difference seems to be that there's no separate volume knob for line-in, as the Novus (and CA78/98) has.

Originally Posted by Peter 512
anyway - looking at the aures, I don’t really understand the difference between K300, K500 and K600. Not sure what the terms “tone spreader”, “duplex scaling” and “agraffe” mean.

I suggest you take that question over into the acoustic piano sister forum.

But anyway, for the acoustic piano I guess there's the same rule as for a digital: You have to play it to hear/feel the difference. If the K300 sounds and feels just as good as the K600 to you, then that's all what counts. Not something on a specs sheet.

Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768113
09/28/18 08:44 AM
09/28/18 08:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 568
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter 512
I don’t mind retuning if I get a better physical experience with the instrument. I currently own a clavinova CLP 170, which has a nice sound, but just feels like a dead piece of wood to play.

anyway - looking at the aures, I don’t really understand the difference between K300, K500 and K600. Not sure what the terms “tone spreader”, “duplex scaling” and “agraffe” mean.


I think that the sweet spot between K series is K500. Don`t go under except if you are satisfied enough, but you can go above. K700 is the same as k500 but with grand style design.

Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768291
09/29/18 04:23 AM
09/29/18 04:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 102
Belgium
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Timpskie Offline
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I think the new Aurus uprights are an interesting product. Allthough I was suprised it also is an acoustic piano. I would realy like to see it without the acoustic components. Just a nice cabinet with full soundboard and transducers. For a long time I have been thinking: should I get an acoustic upright? I realy love acoustic piano's and like everyone my dream would be to own an acoustic grand. Sadly I don't have the place or budget. And I dont see myself investing in an acoustic upright for the following reasons: I don't like the sound of an upright. As much as everyone states that the sound of an acoustic piano is far superior to a digital, I much prefer the sound of the SK-EX on my digital piano. Second: an acoustic piano needs tuning and regulating. Not only does it cost every year to have it tuned but I think I would go crazy over every note or noice that doesn't sound right. I wonder what the sound would be like of the k500 aures with the SK-EX in pianist mode on the soundboard compared to the acoustic piano sound. I think I see myself using the digital sound engine more than the acoustic (am I crazy?)
I realy love acoustic piano's but the way technology on digital piano's have evolved today, I don't think an acoustic upright is worth the investment. Before digital piano's, uprights were a good alternative for the grand piano for the home, but I just dont feel that is still the case today, not at the price an acoustic cost compared to a good digital.
So that's why I was surprised the Aures with its newest digital technology still had acoustic components inside. But mybe that's just me and the fact that I don't like the sound of an upright, and feel that an acoustic has lots of disadvantages for the price they cost.

Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768303
09/29/18 05:53 AM
09/29/18 05:53 AM
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slobajudge Offline
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Nothing wrong in your opinion. Acoustic piano (be grand or upright) like all other acoustic instruments is a passion, love, it is a way of life or it is must for professional pianist or all together. For lots of people it is too much because of price, tuning, regulation, space problems etc, and thats ok because you can play or making music with digital also. For some acoustic piano is a way to meet new life, caring and learning how to tunning without technician, be free with piano as much as possible similar to learning how to deal with your old car and then listening an engine of piano through music. Sounds like a new world and challenge. Our way of life and passion determine do we have a time for that and how much we want to sacrifice something else.

Last edited by slobajudge; 09/29/18 05:56 AM.
Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2768838
10/01/18 03:36 PM
10/01/18 03:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
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Europe
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mcoll Offline
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I recently had the chance to try an ATX3 K-300.
It was a really nice piano (nicer than I expected). I really like the lcd setup that's completely non-intrusive. An IPS display would've been a better chance, since the angles are a bit poor. Also, completely turning off the backlight is something we should see in future versions.
The action of the piano, despite being an upright action, felt great and responsive. Easy to control, easy to perform trills on it, the keys have a good length (unlike the NU1). The dynamic range and the timbre were also above my expectations. Definitely a lot better than most (older) uprights I encountered and also compared favorably to a lot of old/small grands.
The digital side has been extensively discussed in the Novus and CA series threads. I will just say that the overall sound on headphones was very good, and were it not for some resonances/hissing, I'd probably consider it good enough as not to bother with VSTs.
I didn't have the chance to try the Novus, since the stores I visited it didn't stock it, so I'm not sure how I would feel between the two. I did try some Kawai acoustics though (GX-3, GX-5 and an older silent model with ATX2, which didn't sound nearly as nice) and I found the K-300 held its own quite well and was satisfying to play.
One thing to keep in mind is that in silent mode the action is definitely noisier than digitals (GFII, PHA50 and others). I assume the same goes for the Novus.

All in all, this is a very nice instrument and for somebody wanting an acoustic upright that also serves as a silent piano, it's probably one of the best choices out there currently.

PS. Concerning the digital vs acoustic debate. I have a digital and use VSTs through a very good sound system. It's amazing at this point and I don't have an acoustic in my sight anytime soon for a variety of reasons. Despite this, an acoustic feels alive in a way digitals aren't close to accomplishing. I tried the N3x and it couldn't hold a candle to similarly priced acoustics. The same went for the CA98 and LX7 I tried. The same goes for the best VSTs listened through good monitors / headphones. Despite that, I'll keep using and enjoying my digital setup at a level I couldn't imagine a couple of years back. They're just different beasts at this point.

Last edited by mcoll; 10/01/18 03:41 PM.
Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: Peter 512] #2769808
10/05/18 11:52 AM
10/05/18 11:52 AM
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Southern California
TomLC Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter 512
Hi,

also, the piano is for a small room, so will the K500 acoustic part be too loud for a small room?

Peter


YES!


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Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: TomLC] #2769825
10/05/18 01:20 PM
10/05/18 01:20 PM
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UK
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Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by Peter 512
Hi,

also, the piano is for a small room, so will the K500 acoustic part be too loud for a small room?

Peter


YES!

NO! Well ok let’s qualify that, I have played the K500, the touch is exquisite and it’s easy to play softly. Also I have experience of playing U1’s in tiny practice rooms. Sure you can’t perform to an audience but you can practice and enjoy the resulting acoustic experience. My teacher has a baby grand in a tiny room, some soft wall furnishings, it’s fine. So maybe not ideal but possible and it all depends .....

Re: NV10 vs K500 [Re: spanishbuddha] #2769846
10/05/18 02:47 PM
10/05/18 02:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 650
Southern California
TomLC Offline
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Originally Posted by spanishbuddha
Originally Posted by TomLC
Originally Posted by Peter 512
Hi,

also, the piano is for a small room, so will the K500 acoustic part be too loud for a small room?

Peter


YES!

NO! Well ok let’s qualify that, I have played the K500, the touch is exquisite and it’s easy to play softly. Also I have experience of playing U1’s in tiny practice rooms. Sure you can’t perform to an audience but you can practice and enjoy the resulting acoustic experience. My teacher has a baby grand in a tiny room, some soft wall furnishings, it’s fine. So maybe not ideal but possible and it all depends .....


Okay, I will go along with that. To qualify that: is there anyone else in your house that would rather not like to hear the piano notes bouncing off the walls and ceiling? If you do have carpets, popcorn ceilings, heavy drapes and wall hangings, it will be fine. I admit it is just my opinion. I had the K200 ATX2 for a little over a month with the tech/tuner out twice, and finally traded it back in for a CS11. Now granted the K500 sounds better than the K200 by miles.

Last edited by TomLC; 10/05/18 02:51 PM.

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K500 AURES is mind-blowing [Re: Peter 512] #2794061
12/22/18 05:48 AM
12/22/18 05:48 AM
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navindra Offline
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Check this out from 4 minute 15 seconds. The mind blowing part is the strings resonating from the digital sound. That is freaking amazing.

How much does K500 AURES cost in the US?


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