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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Handyman] #2792333 12/17/18 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Handyman
often so-called "negative comments" aren't negative at all, nor are they casually tossed around - instead of being perceived as negative they should instead be taken as realistic but encouraging words of "tough love" - the exact medicine some need to swallow on occasion ...


Now see, that's why I delight in being single. I can't even imagine what "encouraging words of tough love" might be to a partner who has a passion for piano and has worked hard at it for two years. I'm afraid I can't see much other than arrogance in the notion.

What stood out for me in your post, DutchTea, was the comment that your partner has never said a word to you about your practicing in the whole two years. It made me think of my friends. A couple of them never ask about piano and I rarely mention it to them (although it's one of the most important things in my life), and that's fine. I have other friends, different personalities who are more expressively empathic, who regularly ask how it's going, not because they are interested in piano, but because they are interested in me, their friend, and how things are. They also ask how my kids are, etc. It's part of friendship and caring from their perspective (which is not to say my other friends are not caring).

I wonder in your situation if your reaction to his comment hadn't been brewing for a long time? You spend all this time at the piano and he has absolutely nothing to say or ask about it? I can see how a lot of tension could develop around this for you that he may be blithely unaware of. I wonder if you share with him how your practice is going as a regular part of your connection, bringing it into the realm of normal discourse? Just things like "I was really pleased today with that little classical piece I've been struggling with." or mentioning that you are finding a particular section challenging or enjoyable or whatever. Sometimes in situations like this, people silently wait for the other person to raise the subject, and feel hurt if the other doesn't talk about it. Aside from sharing with him your feelings about it all, you might want to consider stepping up and sharing with him regularly a little more about your piano day without waiting for him to ask. If you've been doing that and he is unresponsive, I'd recommend trading him in for a dog. : ) On the other hand, I think anyone who would have to listen to me practicing day after day (and not trade me in for a dog) would deserve a medal.

All the best to you!


April
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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: DutchTea] #2792427 12/17/18 03:21 PM
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That is terrible but as a male I'd suggest sometimes we do dumb things we are totally unaware of. So… tell him what happened and how it made you feel and that diamond earrings would probably be in order as reparations.


First Lesson Oct. 17, 2017. Currently in Faber Piano Adventures Book 3a. Yamaha P-115 for two years (good starter piano) and now a Kawai MP11SE (Fantastic piano!).
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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: DutchTea] #2792522 12/17/18 08:04 PM
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If me in this situation I would just think who am I playing piano for ME! So I wouldn't care what others think I'm doing what I love and it isn't hurting anyone.

I'm a Jazz musician so I hear kind of BS all the time from people without the ears or willingness to try and understand the music and just ignore it. I also a fan of 20th Century classical so guess I'm a doomed to listen to my CD collection by myself, <grin> There is also a advantage to being into Jazz I never have to drive others around in my car, they know what's in my CD player so they always want to drive and I save gas. LOL

Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: DutchTea] #2792595 12/18/18 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by DutchTea
I began learning piano at 57 years old and now, 2 years later, I'm doing okay. Not great... I have a book I am using that has a cd of the music. It helps me to know what how the piece is supposed to sound. Well, I started one of the songs and he came up the stairs right at that moment and said with laughter, 'I thought, wow, she's doing a lot better!' ... I'll get over it. Maybe I'll go back and play something really loud and really awful.


-As a compare and contrast to this OP’s story.
NOTE- her husband was walking up the stairs and heard her cd, playing a lesson . He, thinking it was her playing thought “ gee she's really improved” and said it aloud which she heard, [yikes!]
BUT … [to me it’s almost “sitcom”humor…]
A contrast would be if you heard your own recording , not realizing it was you [because you’re stoned or …in a another room heard from afar], then thought…. gee that’s really good [or bad] and then realized it was you!.

Which happened to me! .Oooooh No, blush hmmm eek Guess I really need to practice alot more! smile


Cheers!!!

Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: AprilE] #2792610 12/18/18 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by AprilE


... I can't even imagine what "encouraging words of tough love" might be to a partner who has a passion for piano and has worked hard at it for two years...


How about "Stop sulking and pouting and whining about not being able yet to play those pieces as well as the professional pianist on the CD - keep bearing down and practicing faithfully and with unrelenting determination and you know d__n well that pretty soon you'll not only equal but perhaps surpass those recorded performances, and you'll be well on your way to becoming an accomplished pianist...but you've got to cease beating up on yourself right now - and being far too self critical - and you need to set some realistic goals and have some reasonable expectations for yourself."

This might be the heart of the problem here - the OP has been comparing herself for some time with a professional studio pianist on a CD and has been continually disappointed and frustrated with her inability to match those recorded performances. This makes her unhappy. She's been feeling this way for some time now. A casual remark by her husband brings all of these feelings back to mind. She blames him for her hurt feelings. But the feelings have been hurt long before this, and by herself, in her continuing routine of constantly comparing her performances with a professional's - a standard far too high to meet at this stage, and thus, an unreasonable expectation on her part leading to disappointment and sadness.

This is not a situation unique to the OP - we all suffer this just about every time we play or practice or listen to a really good pianist play.


John

"Difficulties deferred and challenges unmet will eventually return with a vengeance to bite one in the butt." (paraphrasing Chopin)
Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Handyman] #2792632 12/18/18 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Handyman
This might be the heart of the problem here - the OP has been comparing herself for some time with a professional studio pianist on a CD and has been continually disappointed and frustrated with her inability to match those recorded performances. This makes her unhappy. She's been feeling this way for some time now. A casual remark by her husband brings all of these feelings back to mind. She blames him for her hurt feelings. But the feelings have been hurt long before this, and by herself, in her continuing routine of constantly comparing her performances with a professional's - a standard far too high to meet at this stage, and thus, an unreasonable expectation on her part leading to disappointment and sadness.

This is not a situation unique to the OP - we all suffer this just about every time we play or practice or listen to a really good pianist play.

Wow. I was a bit incensed by your earlier comments, but what you just said resonates! Thanks!


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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Handyman] #2792671 12/18/18 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Handyman
..........How about "Stop sulking and pouting and whining about not being able yet to play those pieces as well as the professional pianist on the CD - keep bearing down and practicing faithfully and with unrelenting determination and you know d__n well that pretty soon you'll not only equal but perhaps surpass those recorded performances, and you'll be well on your way to becoming an accomplished pianist...but you've got to cease beating up on yourself right now - and being far too self critical - and you need to set some realistic goals and have some reasonable expectations for yourself."

This might be the heart of the problem here - the OP has been comparing herself for some time with a professional studio pianist on a CD and has been continually disappointed and frustrated with her inability to match those recorded performances. This makes her unhappy. She's been feeling this way for some time now. A casual remark by her husband brings all of these feelings back to mind. She blames him for her hurt feelings. But the feelings have been hurt long before this, and by herself, in her continuing routine of constantly comparing her performances with a professional's - a standard far too high to meet at this stage, and thus, an unreasonable expectation on her part leading to disappointment and sadness.

This is not a situation unique to the OP - we all suffer this just about every time we play or practice or listen to a really good pianist play.

This is a HUGE assumption. A huge, unwarranted assumption. It really is possible to listen to professional pianists and not be wracked with jealousy and frustration.

The OP's husband made a joke that backfired. It happens.


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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: DutchTea] #2792694 12/18/18 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DutchTea
I began learning piano at 57 years old and now, 2 years later, I'm doing okay. Not great, but I enjoy playing...I think it was the laughing that got to me and the fact that he didn't try to even fix what he said. I'll get over it. Maybe I'll go back and play something really loud and really awful.

The important thing is you enjoy learning and playing. I understand you were hurt but never intentionally play awful; that's really bad karma.

Playing piano you're going to receive criticism regardless of how good you get. Yes, some people may make fun of you. So be ready for it, ignore it and move on. It's one of the most difficult piano lessons you have to learn.


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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: DutchTea] #2792860 12/18/18 09:27 PM
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We've probably all felt that - someone says something that was out of line, but it also hit a nerve, telling us something we've been telling ourselves all along and we react strongly to those words. What lies are you telling yourself, that his words hit that nerve? My guess is something along the lines of "I should sound better than this."

The question is, is that really true? And if so, does it matter? So what if you're a beginner? So what if you don't sound professional like on a CD? Delving into why you reacted so strongly might be helpful in the long term for your satisfaction in what you're doing, and also may help prevent being overly sensitive to such comments. You love piano, you enjoy the challenge and the practicing and the victories along the way. Another's words shouldn't affect that.

People who are not musicians do not understand what it's like to be a musician. Often, they say dumb things that they don't even realize hurt. They need to be taught what it's like so they understand. Tell him you are sensitive and you'd appreciate he only give positive comments or none at all. It's a good place to start, anyways. smile


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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Stubbie] #2792871 12/18/18 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Stubbie


... It really is possible to listen to professional pianists and not be wracked with jealousy and frustration.


Yes, absolutely - most of us have done it. Perhaps many times. But the key word here is listen. Listening is one thing. It's easy enough to do. But,playing up to the standards, i.e., duplicating the expertise, of a highly trained, widely experienced professional pianist is quite another. Attempts by relative beginners to do so seldom end well.

Originally Posted by Stubbie
The OP's husband made a joke that backfired. It happens.


Maybe - but from what we know is this what really happened? Or did he intend a compliment in a lighthearted way - unaware of who he was actually listening to? Even if we had been there it might have been hard to tell. These things are tricky. It's often hard to decipher intent. It's possible that he meant no harm or insult. If this is the case then by logical extension he would be the one that was misunderstood, and then misrepresented, then finally had his reputation tarnished or besmirched here in a thread at PW. Thus, maybe, just maybe, he's the one deserving of an apology. Food for thought...


John

"Difficulties deferred and challenges unmet will eventually return with a vengeance to bite one in the butt." (paraphrasing Chopin)
Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: DutchTea] #2792915 12/19/18 01:51 AM
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Did anyone even consider how THE PIANO FEELS about this dilemma?
It might just...walk right outtadare.


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Cheers!!!

Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Handyman] #2793020 12/19/18 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Handyman
Originally Posted by Stubbie
... It really is possible to listen to professional pianists and not be wracked with jealousy and frustration.
Yes, absolutely - most of us have done it. Perhaps many times. But the key word here is listen. Listening is one thing. It's easy enough to do. But,playing up to the standards, i.e., duplicating the expertise, of a highly trained, widely experienced professional pianist is quite another. Attempts by relative beginners to do so seldom end well.
We listen to professionals and it is on the basis of our listening that we make comparisons. Yes, it is a mistake for relative beginners to compare themselves to professionals (this is a general statement), but it is a huge jump to assume that the OP, at two years in, believes her playing should be up to professional standards (a specific example), which is the assumption here:
Originally Posted by Handyman
....This might be the heart of the problem here - the OP has been comparing herself for some time with a professional studio pianist on a CD and has been continually disappointed and frustrated with her inability to match those recorded performances. This makes her unhappy. She's been feeling this way for some time now. A casual remark by her husband brings all of these feelings back to mind. She blames him for her hurt feelings. But the feelings have been hurt long before this, and by herself, in her continuing routine of constantly comparing her performances with a professional's - a standard far too high to meet at this stage, and thus, an unreasonable expectation on her part leading to disappointment and sadness.
A post will only include a fragment of all the possible information that surrounds a situation. None of us are privy to all the ins and outs. Arm-chair analyzing can do a great disservice to the poster. What was, and is, helpful and interesting in the discussion generated by the OP was the subject of how our practicing/playing affects those close by.


Originally Posted by Handyman
Originally Posted by Stubbie
The OP's husband made a joke that backfired. It happens.
Maybe - but from what we know is this what really happened? ......

This is why (from what the OP wrote) it seemed to me to be a joke gone wrong:
Quote
.....I have a book I am using that has a cd of the music. It helps me to know what how the piece is supposed to sound. Well, I started one of the songs and he came up the stairs right at that moment and said with laughter, 'I thought, wow, she's doing a lot better!' ..........
But, no, we cannot know his mind, either.


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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Stubbie] #2793085 12/19/18 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Stubbie
...Yes, it is a mistake for relative beginners to compare themselves to professionals (this is a general statement), but it is a huge jump to assume that the OP, at two years in, believes her playing should be up to professional standards (a specific example)...


Quite to the contrary, it's not a huge jump at all - it follows naturally and logically from the simple facts: (1) the OP is trying to learn to play some pieces that are at a level of difficulty that a 2 year student is considered capable - at least with some determined effort - of learning fairly well; (2) she has a recording of a professional pianist playing those pieces in a manner that is generally considered appropriate for them; (3) she assumes or accepts the idea that this is the way these 2 year level pieces should, or are supposed to, sound; (4) she attempts to learn one or more of them with the idea of ultimately matching the recorded performance of the studio professional; (5) after repeated such attempts she doesn't succeed to her complete satisfaction and become aggravated, then frustrated and finally disheartened.

It's not necessarily that she believes her playing should "be up to professional standards", i.e., up to the standards of a world-class concert pianist. But, she has come to believe that her performance of those 2 year level pieces should match fairly closely the execution of them recorded by the professional (his standards that he set for those particular pieces).

This is a very common outcome for many of us attempting to play a piece we've previously heard performed by a really good player. I would recommend "losing" the CD...if she keeps working hard at it 2 years from now she may come back to those pieces and kick his butt.


John

"Difficulties deferred and challenges unmet will eventually return with a vengeance to bite one in the butt." (paraphrasing Chopin)
Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Handyman] #2793094 12/19/18 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Handyman
Originally Posted by Stubbie
...Yes, it is a mistake for relative beginners to compare themselves to professionals (this is a general statement), but it is a huge jump to assume that the OP, at two years in, believes her playing should be up to professional standards (a specific example)...


Quite to the contrary, it's not a huge jump at all - it follows naturally and logically from the simple facts: (1) the OP is trying to learn to play some pieces that are at a level of difficulty that a 2 year student is considered capable - at least with some determined effort - of learning fairly well; (2) she has a recording of a professional pianist playing those pieces in a manner that is generally considered appropriate for them; (3) she assumes or accepts the idea that this is the way these 2 year level pieces should, or are supposed to, sound; (4) she attempts to learn one or more of them with the idea of ultimately matching the recorded performance of the studio professional; (5) after repeated such attempts she doesn't succeed to her complete satisfaction and become aggravated, then frustrated and finally disheartened.

It's not necessarily that she believes her playing should "be up to professional standards", i.e., up to the standards of a world-class concert pianist. But, she has come to believe that her performance of those 2 year level pieces should match fairly closely the execution of them recorded by the professional (his standards that he set for those particular pieces).

This is a very common outcome for many of us attempting to play a piece we've previously heard performed by a really good player. I would recommend "losing" the CD...if she keeps working hard at it 2 years from now she may come back to those pieces and kick his butt.

This is one of the reasons I find the UIPianoPed youtube site a tad bit disheartening. These beginner pieces on there are played by pianists like Dr. Alan Huckleberry, who are not only much better than me, but much better than I will ever likely get. Even though they are relatively simple pieces, the pianists use techniques/touches/etc that go beyond my present skills, and probably even beyond my future skills, and the resulting sound is therefore much better than I will likely be able to approximate. And the same could be said for the Pianist Magazine Youtube channel.


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"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: DutchTea] #2793118 12/19/18 03:29 PM
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To the OP
That's disgraceful - just a way of putting you down.
A spouse's job should be to build you up, not put you down.
I just wouldn't put up with a spouse who made himself feel good by putting you down - that's not on, but if you think about it he's probably been doing it in little ways for ever.
Possibly 'disguised' as a joke.

Ditch the spouse and get a cat.


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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Lillith] #2793137 12/19/18 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Lillith
To the OP
That's disgraceful - just a way of putting you down.
A spouse's job should be to build you up, not put you down.
I just wouldn't put up with a spouse who made himself feel good by putting you down - that's not on, but if you think about it he's probably been doing it in little ways for ever.
Possibly 'disguised' as a joke.

Ditch the spouse and get a cat.


Let me guess ….. Single ? Divorced ?


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: dmd] #2793141 12/19/18 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by Lillith
To the OP
That's disgraceful - just a way of putting you down.
A spouse's job should be to build you up, not put you down.
I just wouldn't put up with a spouse who made himself feel good by putting you down - that's not on, but if you think about it he's probably been doing it in little ways for ever.
Possibly 'disguised' as a joke.

Ditch the spouse and get a cat.


Let me guess ….. Single ? Divorced ?




Not at all, happily married.
Jjust well tuned to that kind of behaviour. I see it all the time in others who quite often are told it's 'a joke' . It's not and that doesn't stop the hurt.
It's one partner trying to feel good by putting the other one down and shouldn't be tolerated.


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Lillith] #2793143 12/19/18 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lillith
To the OP
That's disgraceful - just a way of putting you down.
A spouse's job should be to build you up, not put you down.
I just wouldn't put up with a spouse who made himself feel good by putting you down - that's not on, but if you think about it he's probably been doing it in little ways for ever.
Possibly 'disguised' as a joke.

Ditch the spouse and get a cat.


Originally Posted by Hanlon's Razor
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


Honestly, OP's husband's comment is exactly the kind of thing that I would say. The thing is, I would be saying it to myself out loud, marveling at my own ignorance when it came to differentiating between my spouse and a professional recording. I would think the joke was on me, and I would expect to share a small chuckle with my spouse about how daft I am, not realizing until my spouse stalked off that it could also have been taken as a cutting criticism of her playing. So, Hanlon's Razor: I'm not an intentional or envious jerk, I'm simply a bit socially obtuse at times!


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Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: Downhill_Fast] #2793150 12/19/18 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Downhill_Fast
Originally Posted by Lillith
To the OP
That's disgraceful - just a way of putting you down.
A spouse's job should be to build you up, not put you down.
I just wouldn't put up with a spouse who made himself feel good by putting you down - that's not on, but if you think about it he's probably been doing it in little ways for ever.
Possibly 'disguised' as a joke.

Ditch the spouse and get a cat.


Originally Posted by Hanlon's Razor
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


Honestly, OP's husband's comment is exactly the kind of thing that I would say. The thing is, I would be saying it to myself out loud, marveling at my own ignorance when it came to differentiating between my spouse and a professional recording. I would think the joke was on me, and I would expect to share a small chuckle with my spouse about how daft I am, not realizing until my spouse stalked off that it could also have been taken as a cutting criticism of her playing. So, Hanlon's Razor: I'm not an intentional or envious jerk, I'm simply a bit socially obtuse at times!



Well, here is something completely off topic ….but it is driving me crazy.

Maybe someone else can resolve this …..

There is a quote shown above as posted by Hanlon's Razor.

I have looked for that posting in a previous post and absolutely cannot find it.

And … in addition to that …. I looked up Hanlon's Razor in the User List and it is not there.

Mystery.

Can anyone help me out on this ?


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Hurt Feelings [Re: dmd] #2793159 12/19/18 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by dmd


Well, here is something completely off topic ….but it is driving me crazy.

Maybe someone else can resolve this …..

There is a quote shown above as posted by Hanlon's Razor.

I have looked for that posting in a previous post and absolutely cannot find it.

And … in addition to that …. I looked up Hanlon's Razor in the User List and it is not there.

Mystery.

Can anyone help me out on this ?



grin ha


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