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Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? #2792704
12/18/18 02:00 PM
12/18/18 02:00 PM
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Arnes Offline OP
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I just updated Pianoteq Stage to version 6.
I am now thinking about upgrading Stage to Standard, because I would like to be able to modify the sounds more to my liking. But are the sound modification tools available in the standard version really worth it?

I have four spare Genelec biamps (2x8020 and 2x1019A). It might be interesting to try them with my FP-90 and Pianoteq.


FP-90
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Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Arnes] #2792716
12/18/18 02:21 PM
12/18/18 02:21 PM
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slobajudge Offline
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Depends how much you are sensitive for some details. Nobody can give you that answer, you must try it for yourself. For me, mics placement makes difference more than other settings. With standard version you can load different FXP presets and some of them are very good. Put it this way, my basic answer is Stage is enough, but I am glad that I have Standard version. Yeah I know it is funny and not much help isn`t it ? frown smile

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Arnes] #2792722
12/18/18 02:37 PM
12/18/18 02:37 PM
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JerryFan2000 Offline
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I bought Standard version and never change any parameter. I'd rather spend my time practicing than tuning.

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: slobajudge] #2793117
12/19/18 04:29 PM
12/19/18 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
For me, mics placement makes difference more than other settings.


Completely agree! I couldn't imagine how much mic placement affects a piano sound. Really amazing feature. Also for me, it was a very educational experience.


Casio PX-350
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: JerryFan2000] #2793121
12/19/18 04:35 PM
12/19/18 04:35 PM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by JerryFan2000
I bought Standard version and never change any parameter. I'd rather spend my time practicing than tuning.



Practicing affects the sound more than ANYTHING.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: dmd] #2793285
12/20/18 01:21 AM
12/20/18 01:21 AM
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Arnes Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by JerryFan2000
I bought Standard version and never change any parameter. I'd rather spend my time practicing than tuning.



Practicing affects the sound more than ANYTHING.




And piano sound affects your willingness to practice.

Last edited by Arnes; 12/20/18 01:23 AM.

FP-90
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: slobajudge] #2793310
12/20/18 03:44 AM
12/20/18 03:44 AM
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Posts: 272
The Netherlands
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pianistje Offline
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Depends how much you are sensitive for some details. Nobody can give you that answer, you must try it for yourself. For me, mics placement makes difference more than other settings. With standard version you can load different FXP presets and some of them are very good. Put it this way, my basic answer is Stage is enough, but I am glad that I have Standard version. Yeah I know it is funny and not much help isn`t it ? frown smile

For someone able to read between the lines it says enough :-)

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: pianistje] #2793332
12/20/18 06:52 AM
12/20/18 06:52 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by pianistje
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Depends how much you are sensitive for some details. Nobody can give you that answer, you must try it for yourself. For me, mics placement makes difference more than other settings. With standard version you can load different FXP presets and some of them are very good. Put it this way, my basic answer is Stage is enough, but I am glad that I have Standard version. Yeah I know it is funny and not much help isn`t it ? frown smile

For someone able to read between the lines it says enough :-)

OK. Please translate for those who can't read between the lines. That I should upgrade from Stage to Standard to get more realism?

BTW, coincidentally, a parallel thread started yesterday on Reddit's r/piano, which is sometimes like PW except on some Counter-Earth.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Arnes] #2793364
12/20/18 09:31 AM
12/20/18 09:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 550
UK
thickfingers Offline
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Originally Posted by Arnes
And piano sound affects your willingness to practice.

Most definitely. Unauthenticity saps the enthusiasm.

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Arnes] #2793368
12/20/18 09:43 AM
12/20/18 09:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 8,409
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Arnes: If you're happy with the sound of your existing version of Pianoteq, I'd recommend keeping it rather than upgrading it.

If you're not really happy with it, I'd skip the Pianoteq upgrade because it won't get that much better. The essential character of the sound won't change with the upgrade.
Instead I'd opt instead for a different, better virtual instrument. There are many to choose from.

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2793369
12/20/18 09:54 AM
12/20/18 09:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 272
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pianistje Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by pianistje
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Depends how much you are sensitive for some details. Nobody can give you that answer, you must try it for yourself. For me, mics placement makes difference more than other settings. With standard version you can load different FXP presets and some of them are very good. Put it this way, my basic answer is Stage is enough, but I am glad that I have Standard version. Yeah I know it is funny and not much help isn`t it ? frown smile

For someone able to read between the lines it says enough :-)

OK. Please translate for those who can't read between the lines. That I should upgrade from Stage to Standard to get more realism?

BTW, coincidentally, a parallel thread started yesterday on Reddit's r/piano, which is sometimes like PW except on some Counter-Earth.

OP says he wants to be able to adjust the tone of pianoteq more to his LIKING.

Slobajudge says that changing the mics has the biggest impact on changing the sound, which is confirmed at the various topics at the pianoteq forums.
This route makes it much more easy to find a setting to one’s liking i presume ?

So in order to have control over the sound in a way that has the biggest impact according to many, one really should go for the standard version instead of play.
But since there is still a probability that the OP belongs to those few who don’t hear a big impact/improvement no one can recomment the upgrade for 100%

I don’t have pianoteq, never used a trial either, but would go straight at the standard version, because i have high regards for the likes of slobajudge.... the piano vst addict :-) who has most of the available piano vst options out there.



Last edited by pianistje; 12/20/18 09:58 AM.
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Arnes] #2793387
12/20/18 10:53 AM
12/20/18 10:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 550
UK
thickfingers Offline
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thickfingers  Offline
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UK
I've just had another bash at my StageTrial version--so much tinkering available with it I could be at it for donkeys' years, if I was so inclined. I see zero necessity to go for the Standard. But I'm only a plunker.

Falling in love with the Steinway D Prelude...even before tinkering. Soooo much better than my native sounds. Lovely. IMO.

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: JerryFan2000] #2793408
12/20/18 11:29 AM
12/20/18 11:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 360
Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
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Marcos Daniel Offline
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Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
Originally Posted by JerryFan2000
I bought Standard version and never change any parameter. I'd rather spend my time practicing than tuning.

Same case here but with pro version shocked. The only advantage I found is that sound can be modified to make cheap speakers/headphones sound a bit better. But for the difference in price, a good pair of headphones and speakers could be bought.


Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: thickfingers] #2793424
12/20/18 12:56 PM
12/20/18 12:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 8
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JerryFan2000 Offline
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Originally Posted by thickfingers
Originally Posted by Arnes
And piano sound affects your willingness to practice.

Most definitely. Unauthenticity saps the enthusiasm.


Totally agree. So I am now practicing more on my acoustic these days.

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: thickfingers] #2793425
12/20/18 01:02 PM
12/20/18 01:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,928
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,928
Originally Posted by thickfingers
Falling in love with the Steinway D Prelude

Have you had a chance to try out the Blüthner and Steingraeber too?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2793434
12/20/18 01:42 PM
12/20/18 01:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 550
UK
thickfingers Offline
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Posts: 550
UK
Been through all of the GP's, top four in each group. Some of the others use a lot of processing power, makes it clip. I'll have a better look at those when I change my laptop. The Steinway D seems the most balanced so far, for me. I like it.

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: thickfingers] #2793436
12/20/18 01:53 PM
12/20/18 01:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,928
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Posts: 4,928
Originally Posted by thickfingers
Some of the others use a lot of processing power, makes it clip.

Some of the models use different algorithms apparently. I believe that's why the different sound packs require different minimum versions of Pianoteq in order to run. The older models will run on older versions of Pianoteq, while the newer models require the latest versions.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: pianistje] #2793446
12/20/18 02:28 PM
12/20/18 02:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 581
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slobajudge Offline
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Originally Posted by pianistje

OP says he wants to be able to adjust the tone of pianoteq more to his LIKING.

Slobajudge says that changing the mics has the biggest impact on changing the sound, which is confirmed at the various topics at the pianoteq forums.
This route makes it much more easy to find a setting to one’s liking i presume ?

So in order to have control over the sound in a way that has the biggest impact according to many, one really should go for the standard version instead of play.
But since there is still a probability that the OP belongs to those few who don’t hear a big impact/improvement no one can recomment the upgrade for 100%

I don’t have pianoteq, never used a trial either, but would go straight at the standard version, because i have high regards for the likes of slobajudge.... the piano vst addict :-) who has most of the available piano vst options out there.

Thank you for your kind words, really appreciate it. Yes, your opinion is correct. Bad side is more money for standard version, but where ever we go we also choose to better meet ourselves. If that route is product, it will cost unfortunately. The good side is that he obviously like Pianoteq stage and this is important first step to try further and second no matter that he have stage version he can install demo standard version beside it, just create new separate folder where to install demo version and it will work without problem.

Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Arnes] #2793447
12/20/18 02:32 PM
12/20/18 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
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Groove On Offline
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I messed around with the trial version of Pianoteq Standard but it was too much fiddling around for me - so I stayed with and am happy with Pianoteq Stage.

I agree that mic placement has the most significant effect on the sound quality, followed closely by the quality of your sound system. In Pianoteq Stage the main way to change mic placement is the the drop down box of the Output area which lets you choose: Stereo, Mono, Sound Recording and Binaural. Generic and straight-to-the-point mic placement but still useful.

If you need more than that, Pianoteq Standard would be worth a try, but I found that matching the basic mic placement options to the piano models in Pianoteq Stage went a long way to making it enjoyable to play.

For the acoustic piano models
I prefer to use ‘Binaural’ with headphones and ‘Sound Recording’ with speakers. I feel like those are the best sounding options in both cases; and specifically with binaural / headphones the closest Pianoteq can get to the sound of an actual piano without sending the sound through an actual soundboard. The binaural setting has mics around your “head”, while the Sound Recording option has the mics placed almost up against the strings.

For the electric piano/organs models
I prefer to use the Line Out Stereo setting with both headphones and speakers. I’m not sure how realistic it is, but I like how it sounds. The line out stereo option is interesting because it models the pickups (mics) & line outs of the electrics pianos/organs. The binaural and room mic options sound kinda ‘meh’ to me with the electric pianos/organs.

For Harpsichord models
I prefer the Sound Recoding option for both headphones and speakers. I’m not sure if my the binaural / headphone option is more realistic, but I haven’t played enough actual Harpsichords to know.

It would be interesting to hear what setting other people use in Pianoteq Stage and see if it solved some of the issues or if it made any difference at all.


We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Re: Pianoteq Stage -> Standard. Worth it? [Re: Groove On] #2793722
12/21/18 08:41 AM
12/21/18 08:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
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thickfingers Offline
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Originally Posted by Groove On
.....but I found that matching the basic mic placement options to the piano models in Pianoteq Stage went a long way to making it enjoyable to play.

For the acoustic piano models
I prefer to use ‘Binaural’ with headphones and ‘Sound Recording’ with speakers. I feel like those are the best sounding options in both cases; and specifically with binaural / headphones the closest Pianoteq can get to the sound of an actual piano without sending the sound through an actual soundboard. The binaural setting has mics around your “head”, while the Sound Recording option has the mics placed almost up against the strings.

To be heavily investigated, thanks Groove. Just had a quick (very brief) mess with these--they alter the sound drastically...which I wouldn't have expected, so much anyway.
Incidentally--without having to consult the considerable manual--what does the "sound recording" label mean, exactly? Do the other options switch off continuous recording of your playing, or what?

Last edited by thickfingers; 12/21/18 08:44 AM.
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