Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
128 registered members (Abdol, Apache, AdagioLearner, Animisha, AWilley, AndyOnThePiano, Ankee, accordeur, 36251, 32 invisible), 1,363 guests, and 510 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2789537 12/09/18 06:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,578
malkin Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,578
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

It's like losing is a bad thing. Kids are so afraid of losing, they don't participate in anything that poses the slightest challenge.


When anything less than the 95%ile is considered inadequate, really what's the point in trying?


Learner
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2789555 12/09/18 07:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 730
hello my name is Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 730
I am curious to hear from seasoned teachers on this. I don't know if it was on this forum or another, but one teacher commented that in all her years of teaching she has noticed recently kids aren't as strong as they used to be, and clumsier. She hypothesized that today's lifestyle for children where technology is readily available in lieu of hands-on play is causing a weakness in motor skills.


~piano teacher in training~
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2789597 12/09/18 10:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 140
pianist_lady Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 140
I've only been teaching about 10 years, so I don't feel I can really judge kids today vs. previous generations. But regarding AZN's last comment, I have heard from other teachers that they perceive that there are fewer "average" students. They are teaching either very driven students who want to get to a high level or students who are just taking piano to check a box and not putting in much effort, whereas before they had more students in the middle.
Personally, I would say that a major enemy of progress at the piano is the great variety and intensity of the extra-curricular activities that students participate in. So many of my students seem to have an activity or two every day of the week, and so many of the sports teams require multiple practices/games per week plus tournaments on the weekends. It's understandable that they are unable to concentrate in lessons or practice well at home. I'm sure it wasn't this way for most kids when I was growing up, and I wonder if it's more difficult to develop independent learning skills if you are in a structured environment so much of the time.


Private piano teacher
B. Mus., M.Mus. (piano performance & pedagogy).
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: malkin] #2789645 12/10/18 02:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,265
AZNpiano Offline OP
8000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,265
Originally Posted by malkin
When anything less than the 95%ile is considered inadequate, really what's the point in trying?

Grit.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2789776 12/10/18 12:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
??
(Didn't understand the one-word answer "grit")

Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2789955 12/10/18 09:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,907
Plowboy Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,907
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

Really, the phenomenon started maybe 5 years ago. I started to notice that kids are becoming more and more distracted. Can't focus. And very low verbal and spatial intelligence.


iPhone! The iDeath of civilization.


Gary
Essex EUP-111 at the mountains
W. Hoffmann T-122 at the beach
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2789964 12/10/18 10:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,691
Groove On Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,691
Originally Posted by keystring
?? (Didn't understand the one-word answer "grit")

I believe AZPiano is referring to the definition of grit as “courage and resolve; strength of character.”

Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by malkin
When anything less than the 95%ile is considered inadequate, really what's the point in trying?

Grit.



We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams.
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2789972 12/10/18 10:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 398
A
Andamento Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 398
Except for about five years during my public-school-teaching years, I've been teaching piano since the early 1980s. Probably the biggest change I've seen among my students over those years has been how much they use technology now compared to then. Screens abound. And if you read books like The Shallows: What the Internet Is Doing to Our Brains, as I have, you'll find some interesting and disturbing data about the pervasive use of tech and how it's affecting attention and other physiological processes.

What are the neurological implications for youth on the screen drug, whose brains and bodies are still developing? How are those implications playing out in piano teachers' studios across the country and around the world?

It's why I brought up the proliferation of screen use in one of my posts on this thread, and I'm glad others have mentioned tech, as well. It's a giant experiment, this massive use of screens nearly everywhere in kids' lives--at school, at home, in the children's hands while riding in the car to their fourth extracurricular activity that week, and even possibly (gasp!) in their music teachers' studios.

Hands on the screens is different than hands on the piano, or on the ball in the park, or on the pencil doing one's homework. Attention is diverted with eight different tabs open at once, or a half-dozen hot links in an article. Click. Switch. Go somewhere else.

It's hard, even as an adult, to stay focused with all those distractions around. How much are parents (and I'm one, so am asking myself, too) are we robbing our children of opportunities for extended attention--like time to explore nature--that could clear the mind of all the distracting clutter that causes them to flit restlessly from one thing to another?

I believe we piano teachers are going to be seeing more attention problems in our studios in the years to come, as i-Pads and i-Phones are getting used like pacifiers these days.

Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: Groove On] #2789975 12/10/18 10:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
Originally Posted by Groove On
Originally Posted by keystring
?? (Didn't understand the one-word answer "grit")

I believe AZPiano is referring to the definition of grit as “courage and resolve; strength of character.”

Yes, like the movie. But in the context of learning and teaching, and in response to the concern expressed, I didn't find it much of an answer. The issue presented, imho, involves more than "grit".

Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2789979 12/10/18 10:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
Of course with this new system we can't edit what we wrote. I'm thinking if indeed only a small percentage can succeed, then obviously a large percentage will not, and no amount of grit will change that. Such a thing would have a lot of negative fallout, if that is indeed how things are.

Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: keystring] #2789984 12/10/18 11:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 730
hello my name is Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 730
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Groove On
Originally Posted by keystring
?? (Didn't understand the one-word answer "grit")

I believe AZPiano is referring to the definition of grit as “courage and resolve; strength of character.”

Yes, like the movie. But in the context of learning and teaching, and in response to the concern expressed, I didn't find it much of an answer. The issue presented, imho, involves more than "grit".


Perhaps AZN was referring to this?
https://www.ted.com/talks/angela_le..._of_passion_and_perseverance?language=en


~piano teacher in training~
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: keystring] #2790004 12/11/18 01:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,265
AZNpiano Offline OP
8000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,265
Originally Posted by keystring
Of course with this new system we can't edit what we wrote. I'm thinking if indeed only a small percentage can succeed, then obviously a large percentage will not, and no amount of grit will change that. Such a thing would have a lot of negative fallout, if that is indeed how things are.

It's not a matter of succeeding or not. Winning a piano competition is not succeeding.

Some kids (and their parents!) think that losing a piano competition means they've FAILED at life.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2790024 12/11/18 05:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 779
T
thepianoplayer416 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 779
It's not easy to point to any 1 cause.

Today's parents allow kids to play with a tablet and other electronic devices all day as a way to keep them occupied so that the parents wouldn't have to always keep an eye on them. And there are parents who feel getting kids exposed to electronic gadgets would give them a head start in life because a lot of workplaces require computer skills.

Coming from a non-musical family, my parents tend to treat learning an instrument like an academic exercise. Although everybody in the family had music lessons, nobody except myself would get into serious playing. Mom would spend many hours in front of the TV saying that many of the programs are educational.

Once I got invited to a b-day party. There were 3 kids in the family sitting in front of an 88-keyboard. On the stand was a page of sheet music with barely 4 lines. They spent nearly an hour trying to decipher the song and nobody came close to what it was supposed to sound. Assuming that each of them took lessons for at least a year, one would assume they should be sight-reading at a certain level. The father took piano lessons before and passed a few levels but he offered no help. Like many of his peers his parents got him to take lessons which he hated and hadn't touched a piano for many years. The father don't have any issues with the kids in front of the TV or the computer playing video games for hours.

I started with the violin alongside my sister many years ago. Being in a non-musical family, besides paying for the lessons, mom and dad offered no help except criticize. There was never any competition between the 2 of us. My sister was only ahead of me by a few months. We never got to the technical level where we would be helping each other improve. With 1 violin at home we never had to fight for practice time because both of us had a tendency to slack off. Years ago I was hooked to Charlie Brown cartoons on TV. Watching Schroeder on TV didn't motivate us to practice music more.

When I got into piano playing as an adult, I was determined not to repeat the same mistakes I had with learning violin. I never had to track my practice time as long as I have enough interesting pieces to play. Most days I have enough material to keep me going for at least an hour. Very early I'd make recordings. A lot of times I wouldn't end a playing session until I've made an ideal recording. Instead of getting stuck playing the same pieces, I'd find all sorts of challenging pieces I like to listen to and learn to play them without a teacher.

When it comes to making progress you need to motivate people in a positive way to keep playing and move ahead. For me there are 2 things that motivate me to keep going with my music playing day after day. The first is playing with a music group. There is a lot of peer pressure you need to keep up. Everybody is playing at a certain level you don't want to be the person playing all the wrong notes and make the group sound bad in a performance. The other motivator is making sound recordings. A lot of teachers recommended recording yourself as a way to track your progress. I find that once I get into recording a piece, I would listen to the playback and repeat the same piece many times until I get the ideal sound.

Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2790045 12/11/18 07:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by keystring
Of course with this new system we can't edit what we wrote. I'm thinking if indeed only a small percentage can succeed, then obviously a large percentage will not, and no amount of grit will change that. Such a thing would have a lot of negative fallout, if that is indeed how things are.

It's not a matter of succeeding or not. Winning a piano competition is not succeeding.

Some kids (and their parents!) think that losing a piano competition means they've FAILED at life.

I missed that it had switched from students doing less well recently in their learning, to participation in competitions. Now I see it.

Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: Plowboy] #2790055 12/11/18 08:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,578
malkin Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,578
Originally Posted by Plowboy
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

Really, the phenomenon started maybe 5 years ago. I started to notice that kids are becoming more and more distracted. Can't focus. And very low verbal and spatial intelligence.


iPhone! The iDeath of civilization.


But the two-thumbed-typing speed on a small hand held screen has gone way way up.


Learner
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: hello my name is] #2790084 12/11/18 09:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,312
T
TimR Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,312
Originally Posted by hello my name is
Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by Groove On
Originally Posted by keystring
?? (Didn't understand the one-word answer "grit")

I believe AZPiano is referring to the definition of grit as “courage and resolve; strength of character.”

Yes, like the movie. But in the context of learning and teaching, and in response to the concern expressed, I didn't find it much of an answer. The issue presented, imho, involves more than "grit".


Perhaps AZN was referring to this?
https://www.ted.com/talks/angela_le..._of_passion_and_perseverance?language=en


I'd heard good things about this TED talk but hadn't gotten around to watching it. Sorry, but I thought it was superficial and shallow, at least the first five minutes. In minute 6 she mentions Dweck and the Growth Mindset but doesn't really make the connection.


gotta go practice
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: malkin] #2790128 12/11/18 12:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,581
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 12,581
Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by Plowboy
Originally Posted by AZNpiano

Really, the phenomenon started maybe 5 years ago. I started to notice that kids are becoming more and more distracted. Can't focus. And very low verbal and spatial intelligence.


iPhone! The iDeath of civilization.


But the two-thumbed-typing speed on a small hand held screen has gone way way up.

That probably explains why I play the piano better (and much faster) than I can type with two thumbs. Actually, I can't type with two thumbs at all.

Because I don't own an iPhone - nor any other smartphone of any sort. Just a tiny iPod Touch, whose screen is so small that one thumb would take up half of it, so I don't even bother to try.

When I go on holiday, I escape technology because I'd be in the wilderness. No phone signal, no wifi, just me against (or with) the elements. Everybody has to talk to each other (you know, use the vocal cords) rather than have their eyes glued to a screen and their ears plugged into a wire.

BTW, one side-effect of the iPhone era is that children are developing myopia at an alarming rate. They spend all their time staring at something small less than ten inches away, rather than in the distance (you know, the horizon, to watch out for marauding predators), and their eyes are suffering........


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2790177 12/11/18 02:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 17,409
About myopia:

I watched a very interesting documentary on studies being carried out in China, where myopia had increased markedly. They turned this around by making certain that school children in the test schools for the experiment were exposed to sunlight for at least 30 minutes/day. It turned out that it was not close vision, but staying too much in artificial light, was the culprit due to the structure and chemical goings-on in the eye. In the studies they also changed lighting in the classroom itself to give the spectrum of sunlight. There is some kind of chemical interaction that is triggered by certain light waves (colours). Really interesting stuff.

(Now back to your regular channel). wink

Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: AZNpiano] #2790201 12/11/18 03:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 721
T
The Monkeys Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 721
I was talking to my younger son's (grade 6) school teacher a couple of weeks ago. He asked me what suggestion I had for school. Looking at scribbles all over the wall, I said, "perhaps to help them to improve their handwritings?"
Without giving it any thought, the teacher instantly responded: " I can't justify that as long as I can read what they write. The majority of our class work are done in typing anyways"
And he is in his 60s.

Well, I guess we are heading to a digital world, and there is no return.

Re: Slow Progress Among Beginners [Re: The Monkeys] #2790207 12/11/18 03:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,265
AZNpiano Offline OP
8000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,265
Originally Posted by The Monkeys
I was talking to my younger son's (grade 6) school teacher a couple of weeks ago. He asked me what suggestion I had for school. Looking at scribbles all over the wall, I said, "perhaps to help them to improve their handwritings?"
Without giving it any thought, the teacher instantly responded: " I can't justify that as long as I can read what they write. The majority of our class work are done in typing anyways"
And he is in his 60s.

Well, I guess we are heading to a digital world, and there is no return.

Not quite true. Standardized tests are still handwritten. Good luck conveying your ideas if your handwriting is illegible.

Some schools got rid of cursive writing from their curriculum. Not sure what's next on the chopping block. Poetry?


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Page 3 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
Christmas Ornaments Music Theme
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
'Re-Shaping hammers and shanks'?
by LS35A - 12/08/19 12:28 PM
Inevitable progress
by Animisha - 12/08/19 11:50 AM
Like Forscore but for Mac suggestions please
by dhts - 12/08/19 09:38 AM
Help determine knuckle-center pin distance
by Apache - 12/08/19 04:37 AM
“Sit-stand desk” type keyboard stand?
by Elphaba - 12/08/19 02:23 AM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics195,570
Posts2,899,658
Members95,180
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3