Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
125 registered members (AZNpiano, ACSlater, ahoffmann, AWilley, AssociateX, Amedeus, B P 7, astrotoy, 37 invisible), 2,497 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? #2789254
12/09/18 12:41 AM
12/09/18 12:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Intermezzo 116-2 Offline OP
Junior Member
Intermezzo 116-2  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
Let´s focus on these options:

1.- Chopin-Godowsky: Study in A minor "Ignis Fatuus".
Ignis Fatuus
2.- Chopin-Godowsky: Study in G♯ minor (Opu 25 No.6).
G# minor
3.- Chopin-Godowsky: Study "Badinage".
Badinage
4.- Brahms: Etude after Frederic Chopin's Etude Op. 25 No. 2.
Etude after Chopin
5.- Chopin-Rosenthal: Minute Waltz in Thirds.
Minute Waltz in Thirds
6.- Rimsky-Korsakov-Cziffra: Flight of the Bumblebee.
Bumblebee
7.- Scriabin: One of his etudes (Op. 8) (Remeber: less than 2 minutes)
Etudes Op. 8
8 Another piece?? Please mention it to me.

What do you think?
In my opinion, I would choose option number 1 (Ignis Fatuus)

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789260
12/09/18 02:36 AM
12/09/18 02:36 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,668
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,668
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]


Why?


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: BruceD] #2789276
12/09/18 06:00 AM
12/09/18 06:00 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,095
Moscow, Russia
I
Iaroslav Vasiliev Online content
1000 Post Club Member
Iaroslav Vasiliev  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member
I

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,095
Moscow, Russia
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]


Why?

To show off fast. cool

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Iaroslav Vasiliev] #2789311
12/09/18 09:45 AM
12/09/18 09:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,751
Dublin
johnstaf Offline
1000 Post Club Member
johnstaf  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,751
Dublin
Originally Posted by Iaroslav Vasiliev
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]


Why?

To show off fast. cool


They could have it at the 2020 Olympics. The gold medal for 1000m, sorry that should be 1000 notes goes to...

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789321
12/09/18 10:32 AM
12/09/18 10:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,136
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,136
György Ligeti, Études, Book 2: No. 14, Coloana infinită (1:41):


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789332
12/09/18 11:10 AM
12/09/18 11:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,136
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,136
György Ligeti, Études, Book 1: No. 3, Touches bloquées (1:51):


György Ligeti, Études, Book 2: No. 10, Der Zauberlehrling (1:52):


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: BruceD] #2789372
12/09/18 01:16 PM
12/09/18 01:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 684
N
newport Offline
500 Post Club Member
newport  Offline
500 Post Club Member
N

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello,

Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]


Why?


A stage thing most people need to go through at some point in life? ha


Chopin Mazurka Op.59, No.2
Schumann Carnaval "Chopin"

John
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: newport] #2789377
12/09/18 01:27 PM
12/09/18 01:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,136
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,136
Originally Posted by newport
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Hello
Recently, I have been thinking deeply about this question.
[...]

Why?

A stage thing most people need to go through at some point in life? ha

Or maybe this? LOL


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789395
12/09/18 02:13 PM
12/09/18 02:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 311
UK, EU
P
precise Offline
Full Member
precise  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 311
UK, EU
There is no answer to the OP's query.
Every pianist has a different hand and a different technique - each has strengths and weaknesses. What is easy or do-able for one, may not be for another, and vice versa ad nauseum.

Playing a 'simple' movement from Mozart will make a pianist sweat much more than any of the examples you gave - simply because every single note is a nightmare to voice, and one bump kills the whole perf.

There are hundreds of pieces that you could add to your list if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.

NVB




Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: precise] #2789403
12/09/18 02:35 PM
12/09/18 02:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 437
Ireland
Sibylle Offline
Full Member
Sibylle  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 437
Ireland
Originally Posted by precise
... if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.




Sorry, couldn't resist grin Carry on, carry on...


Sibylle

My piano background

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789450
12/09/18 04:10 PM
12/09/18 04:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,016
Ohio
M
MikeN Offline
1000 Post Club Member
MikeN  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,016
Ohio
I’ll throw in Hamelin’s black key. Never tried it though, so for all I know it’s rather comfortable though this is unlikely based on my limited experience with reading his stuff.

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789459
12/09/18 04:44 PM
12/09/18 04:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,751
Dublin
johnstaf Offline
1000 Post Club Member
johnstaf  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,751
Dublin
I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.

Chopin's op. 25 no.6 is arguably more difficult that the Godowsky version. In this case, the thirds are easier in the left hand. The original etude is also more difficult than the Minute Waltz in thirds.

Scriabin's etudes are great. They're difficult to play well. The composers of these etudes wrote them to challenge difficulties head on. The better you want to play them, the harder they get.

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: johnstaf] #2789502
12/09/18 06:38 PM
12/09/18 06:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,097
New York
T
trigalg693 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
trigalg693  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,097
New York
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.

Chopin's op. 25 no.6 is arguably more difficult that the Godowsky version. In this case, the thirds are easier in the left hand. The original etude is also more difficult than the Minute Waltz in thirds.


The left hand parts might be easier than the Chopin right hand parts, but the right hand is a lot busier in Godowsky and that makes it really hard. Ignis Fatuus gives me a headache looking at the score. I've been working on and off on the 25-6 Godowsky for 6 years and I still can't get the blasted right hand jumps correct. Also, I would not say 25-6 is really easier in the left hand, because the A#D-BD# and GB-AC# patterns are really, really bad for the left hand.

The Hamelin Etude in A minor (after 10-2, 25-4, 25-11) is my nomination hehe.

Last edited by trigalg693; 12/09/18 06:39 PM.
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789553
12/09/18 08:41 PM
12/09/18 08:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Intermezzo 116-2 Offline OP
Junior Member
Intermezzo 116-2  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
György Ligeti, Études, Book 1: No. 3, Touches bloquées (1:51):


György Ligeti, Études, Book 2: No. 10, Der Zauberlehrling (1:52):


Hello!

Thanks so much for your response. Nonethless, I have listened carefully to both pieces, and I have also analized both scores...hard pieces for sure, but far from being as virtuosic as the ones that I mentioned.

Last edited by Intermezzo 116-2; 12/09/18 08:42 PM.
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789563
12/09/18 08:51 PM
12/09/18 08:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Intermezzo 116-2 Offline OP
Junior Member
Intermezzo 116-2  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by precise
There is no answer to the OP's query.


There are hundreds of pieces that you could add to your list if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.

NVB


We are not talking about the quantity of notes in a piece. We are talking about technique and pianism. What a lame and dull answer you gave...

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: johnstaf] #2789568
12/09/18 09:03 PM
12/09/18 09:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Intermezzo 116-2 Offline OP
Junior Member
Intermezzo 116-2  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.

Chopin's op. 25 no.6 is arguably more difficult that the Godowsky version. In this case, the thirds are easier in the left hand. The original etude is also more difficult than the Minute Waltz in thirds.

Scriabin's etudes are great. They're difficult to play well. The composers of these etudes wrote them to challenge difficulties head on. The better you want to play them, the harder they get.



What do you think about Brahm´s and Cziffra´s?
I have never seen anybody performing Brahm´s, and I cannot even find a recorded performance on YouTube.

Last edited by Intermezzo 116-2; 12/09/18 09:05 PM.
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: trigalg693] #2789574
12/09/18 09:10 PM
12/09/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Intermezzo 116-2 Offline OP
Junior Member
Intermezzo 116-2  Offline OP
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by trigalg693
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I think that Chopin's opus 10 no. 2 is harder than the Godowsky. The hard part of the original is playing scale passages with 4 and 5 of the right hand. Moving these to 1 and 2 in the left hand makes it much easier. The considerable difficulty of the right hand in the Godowsky doesn't offset this.

Chopin's op. 25 no.6 is arguably more difficult that the Godowsky version. In this case, the thirds are easier in the left hand. The original etude is also more difficult than the Minute Waltz in thirds.


The left hand parts might be easier than the Chopin right hand parts, but the right hand is a lot busier in Godowsky and that makes it really hard. Ignis Fatuus gives me a headache looking at the score. I've been working on and off on the 25-6 Godowsky for 6 years and I still can't get the blasted right hand jumps correct. Also, I would not say 25-6 is really easier in the left hand, because the A#D-BD# and GB-AC# patterns are really, really bad for the left hand.

The Hamelin Etude in A minor (after 10-2, 25-4, 25-11) is my nomination hehe.


What do you think about Brahm´s and Cziffra´s?
I have never seen anybody performing Brahm´s, and I cannot even find a recorded performance on YouTube.

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789580
12/09/18 09:46 PM
12/09/18 09:46 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,311
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,311
New York City
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2
Originally Posted by precise
There is no answer to the OP's query.


There are hundreds of pieces that you could add to your list if you just want 2 mins packed with notes.

NVB


We are not talking about the quantity of notes in a piece. We are talking about technique and pianism. What a lame and dull answer you gave...
I think precise's answer made perfect sense. Pieces with great technical difficulty usually have lots of notes played at fast speeds(just like the suggested pieces in the OP).

The weird thing about the OP's post is the 2 minute limit on the piece.

Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: pianoloverus] #2789592
12/09/18 10:45 PM
12/09/18 10:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,136
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 5,136
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
The weird thing about the OP's post is the 2 minute limit on the piece.

I know there are competitions with a strict and short time limit. For example, America's Got Talent uses a 90 second audition window.

Personally, I wouldn't mind learning a few flashy 2min pieces eventually. So if I play something for someone, I don't have to impose on them with a long piece. (Though the likelihood I will voluntarily play something for anyone is diminishingly small!)


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Hardest short piece (less than 2 minutes) ever written? [Re: Intermezzo 116-2] #2789599
12/09/18 11:41 PM
12/09/18 11:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,097
New York
T
trigalg693 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
trigalg693  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,097
New York
Originally Posted by Intermezzo 116-2

What do you think about Brahm´s and Cziffra´s?
I have never seen anybody performing Brahm´s, and I cannot even find a recorded performance on YouTube.


The Cziffra is hard for sure, but it's not super dense in terms of how many notes you have to be thinking about. My guess is it's not that hard to learn if you have very good octaves/chords.

The Brahms is a bunch of 6ths and 3rds in the right hand. If you have big hands with good stretch, 6ths are not that big of a deal. Any good pianist should be able to handle the 3rds. It doesn't surprise me that there's not many performances of it because who in their right mind would want to learn that thing...

If it counts for your "under 2 minutes short piece", I think the Brahms Paganini Variations Book 1 variations 1 and 2 are much harder because there's way more notes to think about at a time. For the same reason, I think out of the ones on your list Ignis Fatuus is the hardest.

Last edited by trigalg693; 12/09/18 11:43 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
What to look for in a teacher
by ChiralSpiral. 07/15/19 03:49 PM
Kawai RX-1A vs Kawai GL20
by Rstles. 07/15/19 10:49 AM
Advice needed: make Schimmel sp182t silent?
by pianogabe. 07/15/19 09:41 AM
I didn't know that I play too slow and hesitate too.
by PianoWVBob. 07/15/19 08:09 AM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics193,019
Posts2,848,725
Members93,890
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1