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Chopin's pianino #2788982
12/08/18 09:29 AM
12/08/18 09:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2788983
12/08/18 09:39 AM
12/08/18 09:39 AM
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Hakki Offline
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Very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2788985
12/08/18 09:51 AM
12/08/18 09:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 494
Ireland
Sibylle Offline
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Oooh. That'll go straight on my birthday list grin Thank you!

Last edited by Sibylle; 12/08/18 09:51 AM.

Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Sibylle] #2788997
12/08/18 10:25 AM
12/08/18 10:25 AM
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Posts: 627
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Originally Posted by Sibylle
Oooh. That'll go straight on my birthday list grin Thank you!


Have you got space for it though? laugh

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789019
12/08/18 11:18 AM
12/08/18 11:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
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wr Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


The story, as told in this review, doesn't quite match up to the one told in Alan Walker's recent Chopin bio. In that account, this instrument was used hardly at all (Chopin, in fact, wrote a letter in which he said he couldn't compose with it all), and the better one from Pleyel reached Chopin and was in his digs for around half of his stay in Majorca, and it was on the Pleyel where he finished the Preludes.

I wonder which is more accurate.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: wr] #2789020
12/08/18 11:21 AM
12/08/18 11:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,212
Tyrone Slothrop Online content OP
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content OP

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Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


The story, as told in this review, doesn't quite match up to the one told in Alan Walker's recent Chopin bio. In that account, this instrument was used hardly at all (Chopin, in fact, wrote a letter in which he said he couldn't compose with it all), and the better one from Pleyel reached Chopin and was in his digs for around half of his stay in Majorca, and it was on the Pleyel where he finished the Preludes.

I wonder which is more accurate.

Sorting out the real story might call for 3rd book! wr? wink


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Zaphod] #2789023
12/08/18 11:50 AM
12/08/18 11:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 494
Ireland
Sibylle Offline
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Originally Posted by Zaphod
Originally Posted by Sibylle
Oooh. That'll go straight on my birthday list grin Thank you!


Have you got space for it though? laugh

Hahaha, I wish! Guess I'll stick with the book, for now wink


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789034
12/08/18 12:31 PM
12/08/18 12:31 PM
Joined: May 2001
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The article(and maybe the book?) says: "Without the idiosyncratic nature of the 4-foot-high piano with a folding keyboard and with the hinges and levers and metal rods that held it together wrapped in spun wool, deerskin and felt, the Preludes would have sounded far differently." which I think is quite silly.

Surely, Chopin didn't compose his Preludes with this particular piano in mind. And surely he could imagine what his Preludes would sound like on a more typical piano of the day even if some of them were composed on this piano.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789065
12/08/18 02:07 PM
12/08/18 02:07 PM
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It sounds sort of interesting, yet the review clearly says 'There will be tedious sections, surely...'

And then, of the piano: 'Seventy years later, it is found there by the Polish-born harpsichordist Wanda Landowska and taken to her apartment in Paris'. Hum - so she just happened to stumble upon it... As you do... Are things ever quite so clear cut?

And then there's the anecdotal evidence that Chopin actually composed his Preludes on a Pleyel...

Not sure about this one - but will definitely read it.

NVB




Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789206
12/08/18 08:38 PM
12/08/18 08:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,029
In the Ozarks of Missouri
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


The story, as told in this review, doesn't quite match up to the one told in Alan Walker's recent Chopin bio. In that account, this instrument was used hardly at all (Chopin, in fact, wrote a letter in which he said he couldn't compose with it all), and the better one from Pleyel reached Chopin and was in his digs for around half of his stay in Majorca, and it was on the Pleyel where he finished the Preludes.

I wonder which is more accurate.

Sorting out the real story might call for 3rd book! wr? wink


Great, now it is a true mystery piano laugh


[Linked Image]
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789229
12/08/18 10:43 PM
12/08/18 10:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
W
wr Offline
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wr  Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


The story, as told in this review, doesn't quite match up to the one told in Alan Walker's recent Chopin bio. In that account, this instrument was used hardly at all (Chopin, in fact, wrote a letter in which he said he couldn't compose with it all), and the better one from Pleyel reached Chopin and was in his digs for around half of his stay in Majorca, and it was on the Pleyel where he finished the Preludes.

I wonder which is more accurate.

Sorting out the real story might call for 3rd book! wr? wink


Nah, I'm not the one to do it. But it would not surprise me if some scholarly reviewer tackles it. Or perhaps a grad student in music history will write a paper on it.

It shouldn't be too difficult to at least look at the sources cited by the two authors. Attempting to assess their credibility might be more challenging. Even the letter from Chopin himself in which he says he can't get any work done on the pianino, written while right there in Majorca, may have some exaggeration for effect. It's hard to know.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Hakki] #2792083
12/16/18 05:52 PM
12/16/18 05:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 81
Orange County, CA
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BeeZee4 Offline
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Orange County, CA
According to "The Guardian", a film is planned based on Kildea's book "Chopin's Piano: a Journey through Romanticism". Film rights were acquired by a former president of Merchant Ivory Productions. Film will focus on the genesis and execution of Chopin's 24 Preludes and detail his stay in Mallorca, his breakup with Sand, and subsequent tour of England. All music will be played by none other than Daniil Trifonov, who will play on the exact pianos that Chopin used in his London tour.
Chopin's personal Pleyel and 3 Broadwood pianos for the London tour are to be featured. No word yet on the use of the pianino. Production is slated for next year. Cate Blanchett is mentioned as a possible George Sand, no word yet on who will play Fredric. Trifonov is said to be excited to play on these period instruments.


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Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: BeeZee4] #2792439
12/17/18 04:50 PM
12/17/18 04:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 494
Ireland
Sibylle Offline
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Sibylle  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 494
Ireland
Originally Posted by BeeZee4
According to "The Guardian", a film is planned based on Kildea's book "Chopin's Piano: a Journey through Romanticism". Film rights were acquired by a former president of Merchant Ivory Productions. Film will focus on the genesis and execution of Chopin's 24 Preludes and detail his stay in Mallorca, his breakup with Sand, and subsequent tour of England. All music will be played by none other than Daniil Trifonov, who will play on the exact pianos that Chopin used in his London tour.
Chopin's personal Pleyel and 3 Broadwood pianos for the London tour are to be featured. No word yet on the use of the pianino. Production is slated for next year. Cate Blanchett is mentioned as a possible George Sand, no word yet on who will play Fredric. Trifonov is said to be excited to play on these period instruments.

Trifonov should play Chopin himself. That would make it one mainstrem music/piano movie where the lead doesn’t have to pretend to move their hands across the keys smile

(I’m not entirely serious, but I like the idea)


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2792463
12/17/18 06:04 PM
12/17/18 06:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,658
North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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North Vancouver
Well perhaps this is what he used for some of the beginning easier preludes .,if he wrote them in that order ? SOME of these very short ones sound very strange ,melancholic. There is one ,cannot think of the key signature because it is so chromatic ,slow almost sick ?It reminds me of an out of tune piano.Perhaps this strange piano had an unusual tone colour .,even tuned ??
For some of the more brilliant ones he probably had the Pleyel.
I wonder what happened to this strange piano .
Wanda landowska was amazing and also an expert in period instruments. I am not suggesting this was a period instrument or was it ???
I listened to her playing the early MOZART Sonata in G on a Forte Piano ? It was so musical ,but she uses rubarto, and I am sure the pedal ?or was it the ringing sound of the Forte Piano ? See on YouTube.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Lady Bird] #2792467
12/17/18 06:10 PM
12/17/18 06:10 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,828
New York City
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well perhaps this is what he used for some of the beginning easier preludes .,if he wrote them in that order ? SOME of these very short ones sound very strange ,melancholic. There is one ,cannot think of the key signature because it is so chromatic ,slow almost sick ?It reminds me of an out of tune piano.Perhaps this strange piano had an unusual tone colour .,even tuned ?? For some of the more brilliant ones he probably had the Pleyel. I wonder what happened to this strange piano .
I'm sure Chopin could hear what the pieces would sound like on a normal sized and in tune piano even if he composed them on the pianino. IOW the piano had little to do with what the Preludes sound like and they weren't composed with the pianino in mind. That's why I think linking the history or discussion of the pianino to a book/movie about this period in Chopin's life is artificial.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/17/18 06:14 PM.
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: pianoloverus] #2793627
12/21/18 12:22 AM
12/21/18 12:22 AM
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Posts: 2,658
North Vancouver
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Lady Bird Offline
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North Vancouver
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well perhaps this is what he used for some of the beginning easier preludes .,if he wrote them in that order ? SOME of these very short ones sound very strange ,melancholic. There is one ,cannot think of the key signature because it is so chromatic ,slow almost sick ?It reminds me of an out of tune piano.Perhaps this strange piano had an unusual tone colour .,even tuned ?? For some of the more brilliant ones he probably had the Pleyel. I wonder what happened to this strange piano .
I'm sure Chopin could hear what the pieces would sound like on a normal sized and in tune piano even if he composed them on the pianino. IOW the piano had little to do with what the Preludes sound like and they weren't composed with the pianino in mind. That's why I think linking the history or discussion of the pianino to a book/movie about this period in Chopin's life is artificial.

You do not think this strange sounding piano ,this strange island could have inspired the 2nd Prelude in the book .Look at the piece.
By the last chord we know it is in a minor yet the 1st bar starts with
an a# and a G natural .Hollowed out perfect 5ths and minor 7ths hobbling along against some funeral type melody .
What do we know ? Perhaps this weird ,yes out of tune piano inspired a few few of these strange pieces .Perhaps it was there ,perhaps the Pleyel arrived later ? I know one thing some of these are
really dark ,and some weird like Prelude no 2

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2793658
12/21/18 01:28 AM
12/21/18 01:28 AM
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Lady Bird Offline
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Chopins music is not about flashing a fancy Pleyel. It is about life in
his time ,and at times about his life .Art is not always beautiful. Just
look at some of Delacroix s art .,some pictures are not pleasant ,tormented ,ugly, some times frightening. The Horse frightened by a
srorm ,springs to mind .
Chopin met Delacroix, who painted that rather sad picture of the suffering musician .The pianino ,Chopin,and the Preludes ,the pearls
of Chopin .What is the whole story ?

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Lady Bird] #2793742
12/21/18 09:37 AM
12/21/18 09:37 AM
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Posts: 25,828
New York City
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
You do not think this strange sounding piano ,this strange island could have inspired the 2nd Prelude in the book .Look at the piece. By the last chord we know it is in a minor yet the 1st bar starts with an a# and a G natural.Hollowed out perfect 5ths and minor 7ths hobbling along against some funeral type melody .What do we know ? Perhaps this weird ,yes out of tune piano inspired a few of these strange pieces.Perhaps it was there ,perhaps the Pleyel arrived later ? I know one thing some of these are really dark ,and some weird like Prelude no 2
Anything is possible, but I think the likely hood of the above is extremely small and this type of thinking is over romanticized. If the pianino "explains" the strangeness of the second Prelude then it should also explain the completely opposite sounding A major and G major Preludes. Much more likely the particular piano had nothing to do with the actual compositional results.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2793865
12/21/18 03:33 PM
12/21/18 03:33 PM
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Lady Bird Offline
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I agree the A major and G are totally different. To me there is a possibility that Chopin could even written these without a piano .
The G major just looking at the opening bars looks almost like an exercise ,yet by the end you know it to be totally wonderful ,almost
Bach like in its control of the parameters of music .It could have been
worked away from the piano .
The A major is the most perfect little cameo ever written in the
Romantic period .To me it's a mystery how anyone could have composed something so small and so perfect .This piece is mainly
about melody .This perfect melody could have been written away from a piano .Perhaps fully completing the skerch later at a piano .
The Romantic period is all about "everything that is higher than life"
The pianino could have stayed in corner unplayed unoticed ,except
by George Sands lively children where perhaps it's strange tones hovered around or perhaps it became a mirror of Chopin's own melancholic moods .I do not know why the Preludes have such contrasts -dark ,agitated ,lyricism with almost a childlike innocence, charm , and virtuosity .
The pianino cannot explain the Preludes but it is an interesting link.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 12/21/18 03:35 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Lady Bird] #2793939
12/21/18 06:47 PM
12/21/18 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I agree the A major and G are totally different. To me there is a possibility that Chopin could even written these without a piano .
He could have written any of them away from the piano.

Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I do not know why the Preludes have such contrasts -dark ,agitated ,lyricism with almost a childlike innocence, charm , and virtuosity .
If they didn't have contrasts the entire collection or a selection would be very boring.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/21/18 06:51 PM.
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