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Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: Bob] #2786265
11/29/18 11:10 PM
11/29/18 11:10 PM
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precise Offline
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Originally Posted by Bob
Well, China has sent enough junker pianos to the USA. Sending a few Starr Grands to China would be tit for tat...…...ha ha.
Hahaha! Brilliant. Love it smile smile smile




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Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: edferris] #2786379
11/30/18 09:25 AM
11/30/18 09:25 AM
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edferris Offline OP
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Now I deliberately refrained from suggesting that we send Wurlitzer spinets to China. International relations are bad enough already.
I used Starr as an example of the second-rate pianos that nobody wants in the US. There are a lot more Howards out there.

Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: edferris] #2786577
11/30/18 07:16 PM
11/30/18 07:16 PM
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My own impression has always been that if you like to get a Chinese buyer's attention, the product ideally should be "made in Germany" If "made in USA" carries same attraction, it's something new for me. However, one never knows what dealers tell customers over there. In the end, every piano in China "made or sold" is strangely always somehow "German" I'm not saying it "should" But this, at least from my contacts and own experience, had always been the case before.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/30/18 07:19 PM.

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Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: Norbert] #2788530
12/06/18 09:28 PM
12/06/18 09:28 PM
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Chongqing, China
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You're definitely right on this one. For Chinese customers, anything German, French or Italian is considered luxury. Of course, the US and China never really had the greatest relationship and it's probably even worse now, so Chinese customers can be quite selective on the brand of origin.

On the other the hand, China has a pretty good relationship with Germany and one of the earliest car companies that entered into China after the open reform policy was VW. In the 90s, you were king if you had a Santana. Now they moved onto Porsche and Bentley.

Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: Retsacnal] #2788551
12/06/18 11:24 PM
12/06/18 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
It's cheaper to build old American pianos in China. wink


Yes, and this is why I was very reluctant to consider purchasing a newer and more recent Baldwin SF-10 dating from 2010 since it would have Chinese parts and this is no longer the best choice for a owning a well built grand since the best Baldwin's were made in the earlier years (i.e., as you have to find one prior to December 2008 which was the year production was moved to China) and have finally found one to buy that was built in 1984 (signed by Jorge Bolet) which was made in the USA:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2787892/baldwin-sf-10-grand-piano.html#Post2787892

Here is some additional info regarding the history of Baldwin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_Piano_Company

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS4JmhpgOJw

As I definitely prefer an American built Baldwin!

Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: edferris] #2788993
12/08/18 09:18 AM
12/08/18 09:18 AM
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Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
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There is so much wrong with the concept that I don't have the time to go into much detail.

The pianos the OP seems to be sighting are Aeolians, Wurlitzers, Kimballs, etc. And it is true, many can be acquired for a couple of hundred dollars. Add to that the cost of picking it up and getting it in saleable condition, shipping it to China and allowing for a realistic margin for the retailer and they would sell for about the same price as a Japanese-made instrument imported from Japan or an entry-level Young Chang or Samick.

Who in their right mind would buy an Aeolian for about the same price as a reconditioned Yamaha or Kawai.

Further, the entry-level Chinese-made verticals are far better today that Aeoilians or Kimballs were when new!


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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: gp84] #2789192
12/08/18 06:56 PM
12/08/18 06:56 PM
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Posts: 1,038
San Francisco Bay Area
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Originally Posted by Steve Cohen
There is so much wrong with the concept that I don't have the time to go into much detail.

... the entry-level Chinese-made verticals are far better today that Aeoilians or Kimballs were when new!


+1


Originally Posted by gp84
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
It's cheaper to build old American pianos in China. wink


Yes, and this is why I was very reluctant to consider purchasing a newer and more recent Baldwin SF-10 dating from 2010 since it would have Chinese parts and this is no longer the best choice for a owning a well built grand since the best Baldwin's were made in the earlier years (i.e., as you have to find one prior to December 2008 which was the year production was moved to China)!


First, the SF-10 is no longer in production, and there aren't any produced after 2010. The SF-10 was replaced by the BP212, a new design but with many features in common with the SF-10 (Renner action components etc). Have you tried one? I can understand making your comments if you have tried one, and preferred the SF-10. If you haven't tried one (they are hard to find - and limited in production), well, that speaks volumes.


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Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: edferris] #2789325
12/09/18 09:47 AM
12/09/18 09:47 AM
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edferris Offline OP
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Could it be that the Wurlitzer and Weber brand names are being used now because they sound German, not because they were once American? If so, why is D. H. Baldwin also used?

Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: edferris] #2789390
12/09/18 01:00 PM
12/09/18 01:00 PM
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Retsacnal Online content

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Originally Posted by edferris
Could it be that the Wurlitzer and Weber brand names are being used now because they sound German, not because they were once American? If so, why is D. H. Baldwin also used?

Baldwin in "used" because the company that owns Baldwin (Gibson) chooses to continue producing and selling Baldwin pianos. They just choose to produce them in China.

China is not a monolith, where all things are the same all the time. For example:

  • Baldwin is American owned, but they own production facilities in China. I believe they also contract production with others in China for certain models.
  • Hailun is a Chinese company, but privately owned.
  • There are other factories, owned by the state, and probably a smattering of other private and public factories with which I'm not familiar.


Sadly, there could be some truth to names being selected because of how "German" they sound.


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: gp84] #2789396
12/09/18 01:18 PM
12/09/18 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gp84
Originally Posted by Retsacnal
It's cheaper to build old American pianos in China. wink

Yes, and this is why I was very reluctant to consider purchasing a newer and more recent Baldwin SF-10 dating from 2010 since it would have Chinese parts and this is no longer the best choice for a owning a well built grand since the best Baldwin's were made in the earlier years (i.e., as you have to find one prior to December 2008 which was the year production was moved to China) and have finally found one to buy that was built in 1984 (signed by Jorge Bolet) which was made in the USA:

As Russell accurately noted, no SF-10 would have had Chinese parts. Those would be different model numbers, produced in later years. For the record, my comment above was meant to be a tongue-in-cheek acknowledgment of the current marketplace, not to impugn Chinese pianos, parts or subassemblies. The voracious demand for pianos within China, and China's booming production capacity, is fortuitous for the rest of the piano playing world.


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: gp84] #2789406
12/09/18 01:38 PM
12/09/18 01:38 PM
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Retsacnal Online content

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Btw, some folks believe the best American-made Baldwins were produced long before 1984. In fact, some people specifically advise avoiding the 1980s production due to increased quality control issues in that period. Personally, I believe Baldwin's best years were the 2 or 3 decades following WWII, but I wouldn't be afraid of a later Artist grand. I would just be sure to have it thoroughly inspected by someone who's familiar with known issues from that time period.


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

Re: Can we sell old American pianos in China? [Re: edferris] #2789416
12/09/18 01:59 PM
12/09/18 01:59 PM
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I had sort of thought this whole thread was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. So, in the same vein, in order to give the impression that my Baldwin has a German pedigree, I think I will start pronouncing it Balt-veen!


"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
P E R F O R M A N C E over p r o v e n a n c e

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