Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
What's Hot!!
Mr. PianoWorld - the full interview
-------------------
European Tour for Piano Lovers
JOIN US FOR THE TOUR!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


Who's Online Now
80 registered members (Andrew_G, Alex C, barbaram, beeboss, ahumdrumoflife, akc42, agent8698, Barrett Bonden, bennevis, 20 invisible), 1,306 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Chinese Made - my experience #2787960
12/05/18 05:12 AM
12/05/18 05:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
Manchester UK
T
Tommy Doyle Offline OP
Junior Member
Tommy Doyle  Offline OP
Junior Member
T

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1
Manchester UK
Hi. I live in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and the choice of pianos here isn't fantastic. Yamaha and Kawai are of course omni-present. Steinway are here but unfortunately totally out of my price range just now. I came across a shop in town that specialises in Petrof and their own 'brand' of pianos made by Hailun in China (the piano is called Wagner). I wanted a 'baby-ish' grand - living in a condo anything overly large would just be overpowering from the sound point of view. Bought it over a year ago and so far I'm loving it. For a good 15% less than the price of the entry level Yamaha (which is I think 149cm) I got a 180cm Grand. The actual feel (and I mean the tactile sensation of the materials) is streets ahead (I felt the smallest Yamaha the keys really felt quite plasticky).

Does anyone else have views on Chinese pianos?

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2787969
12/05/18 06:39 AM
12/05/18 06:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,082
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
1000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,082
In the Ozarks of Missouri
As long as YOU enjoy your piano, that is ALL that matters. Enjoy it!

Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2787995
12/05/18 08:32 AM
12/05/18 08:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,890
*sigh* Salt Lake City
malkin Offline
4000 Post Club Member
malkin  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,890
*sigh* Salt Lake City
I have heard lots of nice things about Hailun pianos. It's good to hear that you like yours!


I've been trying to change my signature quote for weeks.

Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2788004
12/05/18 09:13 AM
12/05/18 09:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 623
Dublin
J
johnstaf Offline
500 Post Club Member
johnstaf  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 623
Dublin
I don't think you can generalise about Chinese pianos. Some of them aren't great, but Hailun make some really nice ones.

Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2788125
12/05/18 02:48 PM
12/05/18 02:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 507
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 507
North Vancouver

I am glad you have found your piano .I have never played a Hailun grand .A friend of mine bought a Hailun upright which is quite good .
Out of many of these pianos Hailun does stand out especially lately
Congratulations on your new grand piano .You should post a picture for us to see .

Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2788139
12/05/18 03:30 PM
12/05/18 03:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,418
Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,418
Surrey, B.C.
Quote
I don't think you can generalise about Chinese pianos. Some of them aren't great, but Hailun make some really nice ones.


It's been a long known fact that several Chinese have raised by their level by now to previously not admitted, undeniably respectable levels. While many here tried to deny this accusing me and others with "hype about our own brands", it has meantime significantly changed the landscape out there.

For one, it represents a missed opportunity by others to create a serious counterbalance with new competitive edge on market for themselves. That opportunity came and has gone for long time. The verdict is in by now and IMHO too late to do anything about it. Chinese pianos have arrived. It's also the Chinese and not so much our own market that matters in these times.

As the above shows, many European/German manufacturers are now manufacturing in China themselves although few of them are transparent what and where. They like to secure the large Chinese market for themselves and and future employment for their highly trained workforce. The genie is out of the bag and won't be forced back anytime soon.

Do you have to like it? No, but the only way out is to spend more for perhaps mostly patriotic reasons.

Play all pianos out there and see what and which one you like. Don't be confused if a cheaper piano should be more to your liking than some other, more expensive ones. This is the way the market has been going for a while though nobody wanted to believe it.

Take advantage of it.

Norbert


Last edited by Norbert; 12/05/18 03:38 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: NobleHouse] #2788166
12/05/18 04:28 PM
12/05/18 04:28 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,946
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Steve Cohen  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,946
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Originally Posted by NobleHouse
As long as YOU enjoy your piano, that is ALL that matters. Enjoy it!


It isn't that simple....

Not only should you enjoy your piano, but also it should be constructed well enough to provide many, many years of that enjoyment.

The others who have posted here are correct in that you cannot generalize about Chinese-made pianos. Some are quite competitive with Yamaha and Kawai, while others are not.

One of the challenges Larry and the rest of the staff of PianoBuyer struggle with this with every issue.


Piano Industry Consultant- http://www.linkedin.com/pub/steve-cohen/6/b92/b80

Consultant & Contributing Editor - Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyer

Jasons Music
Maryland/DC/No. VA
Since 1937.

www.jasonsmusic.com
My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2788528
12/06/18 09:10 PM
12/06/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
Chongqing, China
G
gskmeva123 Offline
Junior Member
gskmeva123  Offline
Junior Member
G

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 12
Chongqing, China
Great to hear that you're loving your piano. Of course, many of us on the forum would die for a Steinway D, Bosendorfer Imperial, Yamaha CFX, Shigeru Kawai EX etc., but we aren't making millions, right? Also, many of us probably wouldn't have the technical skills to bring out the true performance of these high quality concert pianos. Though I will say, I once played on a beautiful Steinway Model C and somehow, my playing got magically better and my hands were playing pieces that I've long forgotten. It was like my muscle memory just turned on. The action was so beautiful and the sound was so musical at its purest form. So yeah, having an expensive piano can make you a better performer. Anyway, I digress.

As for Chinese pianos, a lot of them aren't great but there many quality budget pianos available. It's all about quality control and having the right manufacturing processes and materials. Could a Steinway D that was made in China have the same quality as the model made in NY or Hamburg? Certainly it is possible but it wouldn't be practical. There wouldn't be too much of a price difference in the end and people would rather choose the model made in NY and Hamburg instead.

As much as the Western media likes to attack on China for low quality Walmart products, "Made/Assembled in China" will continue to improve, just as in the case with Japanese quality. 60 years ago, "Made in Japan" was junk. But soon after, the Japanese companies realized that they didn't want to make low quality products forever. So they continue to learn and improve their quality. The same is happening in China right now.

Though I will say, Chinese cheap labor that was dominant in the 80s and 90s is becoming a thing of the past. People's wages and expectations for a higher quality life are increasing. Soon in the next few decades or so, we will start seeing piano companies moving their productions to other countries.

Last edited by gskmeva123; 12/06/18 09:14 PM.
Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: gskmeva123] #2788627
12/07/18 06:53 AM
12/07/18 06:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,082
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Offline
1000 Post Club Member
NobleHouse  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,082
In the Ozarks of Missouri
Originally Posted by gskmeva123
Great to hear that you're loving your piano. Of course, many of us on the forum would die for a Steinway D, Bosendorfer Imperial, Yamaha CFX, Shigeru Kawai EX etc., but we aren't making millions, right? Also, many of us probably wouldn't have the technical skills to bring out the true performance of these high quality concert pianos. Though I will say, I once played on a beautiful Steinway Model C and somehow, my playing got magically better and my hands were playing pieces that I've long forgotten. It was like my muscle memory just turned on. The action was so beautiful and the sound was so musical at its purest form. So yeah, having an expensive piano can make you a better performer. Anyway, I digress.

As for Chinese pianos, a lot of them aren't great but there many quality budget pianos available. It's all about quality control and having the right manufacturing processes and materials. Could a Steinway D that was made in China have the same quality as the model made in NY or Hamburg? Certainly it is possible but it wouldn't be practical. There wouldn't be too much of a price difference in the end and people would rather choose the model made in NY and Hamburg instead.

As much as the Western media likes to attack on China for low quality Walmart products, "Made/Assembled in China" will continue to improve, just as in the case with Japanese quality. 60 years ago, "Made in Japan" was junk. But soon after, the Japanese companies realized that they didn't want to make low quality products forever. So they continue to learn and improve their quality. The same is happening in China right now.

Though I will say, Chinese cheap labor that was dominant in the 80s and 90s is becoming a thing of the past. People's wages and expectations for a higher quality life are increasing. Soon in the next few decades or so, we will start seeing piano companies moving their productions to other countries.


I agree. Chinese quality is getting better and better every day. Most people would be shocked how many of their "name brand" products are actually made in China.

Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: gskmeva123] #2788696
12/07/18 10:33 AM
12/07/18 10:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,652
Reseda, California
J
JohnSprung Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
JohnSprung  Offline
Unobtanium Subscriber
J

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,652
Reseda, California
Originally Posted by gskmeva123
..., "Made/Assembled in China" will continue to improve, just as in the case with Japanese quality. 60 years ago, "Made in Japan" was junk. .


Yes, post cold war China is well along the same path that post WWII Japan followed:

1. Junk for cheap

2. Good stuff for cheap

3. Good stuff for not so cheap any more.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2789089
12/08/18 01:58 PM
12/08/18 01:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,095
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rickster  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,095
Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by John sprung
Yes, post cold war China is well along the same path that post WWII Japan followed:

1. Junk for cheap

2. Good stuff for cheap

3. Good stuff for not so cheap any more.

Never heard it put quite that way, but you are right on par, John.

I have 3 acoustic pianos made in Japan ranging from 1969 to 1978 and the quality and workmanship is excellent. In my view, acoustic pianos made in Japan now are likely worth the price, if you can afford it.

Personally, I would not be afraid to buy a Chinese made piano and give it try. But I'm not in the market to buy a piano at the moment. I already have one in almost every room of my home... smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2789102
12/08/18 02:27 PM
12/08/18 02:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,696
Danville, California
F
Furtwangler Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Furtwangler  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,696
Danville, California
"I already have one in almost every room of my home...

Rick "

That is ok - when you have a piano in your master bathroom, that is when you will know you may have gone too far.


Amateur Pianist and raconteur.
Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2789120
12/08/18 03:47 PM
12/08/18 03:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 311
UK, EU
P
precise Offline
Full Member
precise  Offline
Full Member
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 311
UK, EU
As Norbert and others have suggested, writing off Chinese-made pianos as junk has been a mistake.

Of course they do make some dodgy instruments - but so do many old and 'respected' brands. Conversely, there is immense innovation, financial back-up, ambition and work ethos in China, so it makes sense that they can, and do, make some very respectable instruments. For their prices, the Chinese pianos I've seen have been extremely impressive. Not necessarily what I'd personally choose, but there's no mistaking their quality and bang for buck.

I wonder, though, how many of their pianos will hold up over time? I don't know enough about them to be able to even speculate -but others here certainly do. I'd love to know what you guys think.




Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2789521
12/09/18 06:06 PM
12/09/18 06:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,915
J
joe80 Online content
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,915
I know of a wendl und lung grand piano that's about 15 years old and still going strong, and that's a hailun piano.

Chances are your piano is great and meets your needs perfectly.

The good Chinese pianos are decent instruments period, and the bad ones are terrible. As Nick says.... mistakes have been made in even the most highly respected German factories...

Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2790038
12/11/18 07:06 AM
12/11/18 07:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 753
Zichron Yaacov, Israel
S
Steve Jackson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Steve Jackson  Offline
500 Post Club Member
S

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 753
Zichron Yaacov, Israel
I might add, that grading any piano by country of origin is foolish and only serves to confirm ones bias.

Country branding as origin of construction, as in Made in Chelm by the Wise Men, or whatever country of origin does not mean that the object was actually made in that country. Each jurisdiction have their own rules for what country of origin means, and in countries where there is high value in promoting it as country as origin, the manufacturers place extreme pressure on regulators.

As such, there can be scenarios where a piano, 90% made in China can proudly say, "Made In Big Expensive Prestigious Country" as the accounting rules in Big Expensive country allow for many allowances of costs.

As such, almost every piano today is of high Chinese content.

Quality comes from good design, materials and execution. The real measure is the passion of the owners and why we revere the old pianos where the owner was also involved personally whereas today, it's a business making widgets, some better than others.

Judge each piano by the passion it evokes in you, the true enthusiasm of the representatives and forget the country.

I see some Russian made pianos where the name is ground off and a German name placed on instead, sold for the price of Japanese pianos. That's what happens if you judge country of origin, not the piano

Steve

Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Tommy Doyle] #2790884
Yesterday at 01:30 PM
Yesterday at 01:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 513
Southwest
j&j Offline
500 Post Club Member
j&j  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 513
Southwest
@Steve Jackson- very perceptive! We humans want to put things in neat little boxes when we have so many choices we’re stuck in analysis paralysis. Perhaps piano makers should start listing country of origin %’s like they do on new cars and trucks in the States. If that happened, it sure would be Eye-opening to say the least 😎.


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
My piano salesman is my best fan!
[Linked Image]
Re: Chinese Made - my experience [Re: Steve Jackson] #2791083
Yesterday at 11:06 PM
Yesterday at 11:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 507
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Offline
500 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 507
North Vancouver
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson
I might add, that grading any piano by country of origin is foolish and only serves to confirm ones bias.

Country branding as origin of construction, as in Made in Chelm by the Wise Men, or whatever country of origin does not mean that the object was actually made in that country. Each jurisdiction have their own rules for what country of origin means, and in countries where there is high value in promoting it as country as origin, the manufacturers place extreme pressure on regulators.

As such, there can be scenarios where a piano, 90% made in China can proudly say, "Made In Big Expensive Prestigious Country" as the accounting rules in Big Expensive country allow for many allowances of costs.

As such, almost every piano today is of high Chinese content.

Quality comes from good design, materials and execution. The real measure is the passion of the owners and why we revere the old pianos where the owner was also involved personally whereas today, it's a business making widgets, some better than others.

Judge each piano by the passion it evokes in you, the true enthusiasm of the representatives and forget the country.

I see some Russian made pianos where the name is ground off and a German name placed on instead, sold for the price of Japanese pianos. That's what happens if you judge country of origin, not the piano

Steve

Germany is still making great pianos and there are some without
Chinese content .Sorry but Germany always has been a great piano making country and still is .The US and Japan are other countries who really know how to make real instruments .


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Sweetwater - Keyboards
Sweetwater
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Which version do you prefer?
by Sibylle. 12/14/18 03:17 AM
What should I read next?
by lunobili. 12/14/18 12:51 AM
VST - TruePianos vs AddictiveKeys from XLN Audio
by ManishP. 12/13/18 11:11 PM
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Petrof
Forum Statistics
Forums40
Topics188,896
Posts2,771,079
Members91,758
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Please Support Our Advertisers
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

PianoTeq Petrof
Piano Buyer Spring 2018
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2