2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
74 registered members (Bett, BachToTheFuture, AB99, Amy H, AndyOnThePiano, anotherscott, Anglagard44, 17 invisible), 427 guests, and 455 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Chopin's pianino #2788982 12/08/18 08:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,422
Tyrone Slothrop Online Content OP
9000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,422


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2788983 12/08/18 08:39 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,402
H
Hakki Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
H
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,402
Very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2788985 12/08/18 08:51 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 563
Sibylle Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 563
Oooh. That'll go straight on my birthday list grin Thank you!

Last edited by Sibylle; 12/08/18 08:51 AM.

Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Sibylle] #2788997 12/08/18 09:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 661
Z
Zaphod Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 661
Originally Posted by Sibylle
Oooh. That'll go straight on my birthday list grin Thank you!


Have you got space for it though? laugh

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789019 12/08/18 10:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
W
wr Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


The story, as told in this review, doesn't quite match up to the one told in Alan Walker's recent Chopin bio. In that account, this instrument was used hardly at all (Chopin, in fact, wrote a letter in which he said he couldn't compose with it all), and the better one from Pleyel reached Chopin and was in his digs for around half of his stay in Majorca, and it was on the Pleyel where he finished the Preludes.

I wonder which is more accurate.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: wr] #2789020 12/08/18 10:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,422
Tyrone Slothrop Online Content OP
9000 Post Club Member
OP Online Content
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 9,422
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


The story, as told in this review, doesn't quite match up to the one told in Alan Walker's recent Chopin bio. In that account, this instrument was used hardly at all (Chopin, in fact, wrote a letter in which he said he couldn't compose with it all), and the better one from Pleyel reached Chopin and was in his digs for around half of his stay in Majorca, and it was on the Pleyel where he finished the Preludes.

I wonder which is more accurate.

Sorting out the real story might call for 3rd book! wr? wink


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Zaphod] #2789023 12/08/18 10:50 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 563
Sibylle Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 563
Originally Posted by Zaphod
Originally Posted by Sibylle
Oooh. That'll go straight on my birthday list grin Thank you!


Have you got space for it though? laugh

Hahaha, I wish! Guess I'll stick with the book, for now wink


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789034 12/08/18 11:31 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,725
pianoloverus Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,725
The article(and maybe the book?) says: "Without the idiosyncratic nature of the 4-foot-high piano with a folding keyboard and with the hinges and levers and metal rods that held it together wrapped in spun wool, deerskin and felt, the Preludes would have sounded far differently." which I think is quite silly.

Surely, Chopin didn't compose his Preludes with this particular piano in mind. And surely he could imagine what his Preludes would sound like on a more typical piano of the day even if some of them were composed on this piano.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789065 12/08/18 01:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 311
P
precise Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 311

It sounds sort of interesting, yet the review clearly says 'There will be tedious sections, surely...'

And then, of the piano: 'Seventy years later, it is found there by the Polish-born harpsichordist Wanda Landowska and taken to her apartment in Paris'. Hum - so she just happened to stumble upon it... As you do... Are things ever quite so clear cut?

And then there's the anecdotal evidence that Chopin actually composed his Preludes on a Pleyel...

Not sure about this one - but will definitely read it.

NVB

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789206 12/08/18 07:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
NobleHouse Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 3,485
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


The story, as told in this review, doesn't quite match up to the one told in Alan Walker's recent Chopin bio. In that account, this instrument was used hardly at all (Chopin, in fact, wrote a letter in which he said he couldn't compose with it all), and the better one from Pleyel reached Chopin and was in his digs for around half of his stay in Majorca, and it was on the Pleyel where he finished the Preludes.

I wonder which is more accurate.

Sorting out the real story might call for 3rd book! wr? wink


Great, now it is a true mystery piano laugh



[Linked Image]
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789229 12/08/18 09:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
W
wr Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


The story, as told in this review, doesn't quite match up to the one told in Alan Walker's recent Chopin bio. In that account, this instrument was used hardly at all (Chopin, in fact, wrote a letter in which he said he couldn't compose with it all), and the better one from Pleyel reached Chopin and was in his digs for around half of his stay in Majorca, and it was on the Pleyel where he finished the Preludes.

I wonder which is more accurate.

Sorting out the real story might call for 3rd book! wr? wink


Nah, I'm not the one to do it. But it would not surprise me if some scholarly reviewer tackles it. Or perhaps a grad student in music history will write a paper on it.

It shouldn't be too difficult to at least look at the sources cited by the two authors. Attempting to assess their credibility might be more challenging. Even the letter from Chopin himself in which he says he can't get any work done on the pianino, written while right there in Majorca, may have some exaggeration for effect. It's hard to know.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Hakki] #2792083 12/16/18 04:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
B
BeeZee4 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 101
According to "The Guardian", a film is planned based on Kildea's book "Chopin's Piano: a Journey through Romanticism". Film rights were acquired by a former president of Merchant Ivory Productions. Film will focus on the genesis and execution of Chopin's 24 Preludes and detail his stay in Mallorca, his breakup with Sand, and subsequent tour of England. All music will be played by none other than Daniil Trifonov, who will play on the exact pianos that Chopin used in his London tour.
Chopin's personal Pleyel and 3 Broadwood pianos for the London tour are to be featured. No word yet on the use of the pianino. Production is slated for next year. Cate Blanchett is mentioned as a possible George Sand, no word yet on who will play Fredric. Trifonov is said to be excited to play on these period instruments.


Estonia 190 #6209
Working on:
Bach's Goldbergs
Ravel: Une Barque sur l'Ocean
Rachmaninoff: Etude Tableaux Op. 39 No. 5 Eb minor
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: BeeZee4] #2792439 12/17/18 03:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 563
Sibylle Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 563
Originally Posted by BeeZee4
According to "The Guardian", a film is planned based on Kildea's book "Chopin's Piano: a Journey through Romanticism". Film rights were acquired by a former president of Merchant Ivory Productions. Film will focus on the genesis and execution of Chopin's 24 Preludes and detail his stay in Mallorca, his breakup with Sand, and subsequent tour of England. All music will be played by none other than Daniil Trifonov, who will play on the exact pianos that Chopin used in his London tour.
Chopin's personal Pleyel and 3 Broadwood pianos for the London tour are to be featured. No word yet on the use of the pianino. Production is slated for next year. Cate Blanchett is mentioned as a possible George Sand, no word yet on who will play Fredric. Trifonov is said to be excited to play on these period instruments.

Trifonov should play Chopin himself. That would make it one mainstrem music/piano movie where the lead doesn’t have to pretend to move their hands across the keys smile

(I’m not entirely serious, but I like the idea)


Sibylle


"Not a shred of evidence exists in favour of the idea that life is serious." -Brendan Gill
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2792463 12/17/18 05:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,695
L
Lady Bird Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,695
Well perhaps this is what he used for some of the beginning easier preludes .,if he wrote them in that order ? SOME of these very short ones sound very strange ,melancholic. There is one ,cannot think of the key signature because it is so chromatic ,slow almost sick ?It reminds me of an out of tune piano.Perhaps this strange piano had an unusual tone colour .,even tuned ??
For some of the more brilliant ones he probably had the Pleyel.
I wonder what happened to this strange piano .
Wanda landowska was amazing and also an expert in period instruments. I am not suggesting this was a period instrument or was it ???
I listened to her playing the early MOZART Sonata in G on a Forte Piano ? It was so musical ,but she uses rubarto, and I am sure the pedal ?or was it the ringing sound of the Forte Piano ? See on YouTube.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Lady Bird] #2792467 12/17/18 05:10 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,725
pianoloverus Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,725
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well perhaps this is what he used for some of the beginning easier preludes .,if he wrote them in that order ? SOME of these very short ones sound very strange ,melancholic. There is one ,cannot think of the key signature because it is so chromatic ,slow almost sick ?It reminds me of an out of tune piano.Perhaps this strange piano had an unusual tone colour .,even tuned ?? For some of the more brilliant ones he probably had the Pleyel. I wonder what happened to this strange piano .
I'm sure Chopin could hear what the pieces would sound like on a normal sized and in tune piano even if he composed them on the pianino. IOW the piano had little to do with what the Preludes sound like and they weren't composed with the pianino in mind. That's why I think linking the history or discussion of the pianino to a book/movie about this period in Chopin's life is artificial.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/17/18 05:14 PM.
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: pianoloverus] #2793627 12/20/18 11:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,695
L
Lady Bird Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,695
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Well perhaps this is what he used for some of the beginning easier preludes .,if he wrote them in that order ? SOME of these very short ones sound very strange ,melancholic. There is one ,cannot think of the key signature because it is so chromatic ,slow almost sick ?It reminds me of an out of tune piano.Perhaps this strange piano had an unusual tone colour .,even tuned ?? For some of the more brilliant ones he probably had the Pleyel. I wonder what happened to this strange piano .
I'm sure Chopin could hear what the pieces would sound like on a normal sized and in tune piano even if he composed them on the pianino. IOW the piano had little to do with what the Preludes sound like and they weren't composed with the pianino in mind. That's why I think linking the history or discussion of the pianino to a book/movie about this period in Chopin's life is artificial.

You do not think this strange sounding piano ,this strange island could have inspired the 2nd Prelude in the book .Look at the piece.
By the last chord we know it is in a minor yet the 1st bar starts with
an a# and a G natural .Hollowed out perfect 5ths and minor 7ths hobbling along against some funeral type melody .
What do we know ? Perhaps this weird ,yes out of tune piano inspired a few few of these strange pieces .Perhaps it was there ,perhaps the Pleyel arrived later ? I know one thing some of these are
really dark ,and some weird like Prelude no 2

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2793658 12/21/18 12:28 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,695
L
Lady Bird Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,695
Chopins music is not about flashing a fancy Pleyel. It is about life in
his time ,and at times about his life .Art is not always beautiful. Just
look at some of Delacroix s art .,some pictures are not pleasant ,tormented ,ugly, some times frightening. The Horse frightened by a
srorm ,springs to mind .
Chopin met Delacroix, who painted that rather sad picture of the suffering musician .The pianino ,Chopin,and the Preludes ,the pearls
of Chopin .What is the whole story ?

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Lady Bird] #2793742 12/21/18 08:37 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,725
pianoloverus Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,725
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
You do not think this strange sounding piano ,this strange island could have inspired the 2nd Prelude in the book .Look at the piece. By the last chord we know it is in a minor yet the 1st bar starts with an a# and a G natural.Hollowed out perfect 5ths and minor 7ths hobbling along against some funeral type melody .What do we know ? Perhaps this weird ,yes out of tune piano inspired a few of these strange pieces.Perhaps it was there ,perhaps the Pleyel arrived later ? I know one thing some of these are really dark ,and some weird like Prelude no 2
Anything is possible, but I think the likely hood of the above is extremely small and this type of thinking is over romanticized. If the pianino "explains" the strangeness of the second Prelude then it should also explain the completely opposite sounding A major and G major Preludes. Much more likely the particular piano had nothing to do with the actual compositional results.

Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2793865 12/21/18 02:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,695
L
Lady Bird Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
Online Content
3000 Post Club Member
L
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 3,695
I agree the A major and G are totally different. To me there is a possibility that Chopin could even written these without a piano .
The G major just looking at the opening bars looks almost like an exercise ,yet by the end you know it to be totally wonderful ,almost
Bach like in its control of the parameters of music .It could have been
worked away from the piano .
The A major is the most perfect little cameo ever written in the
Romantic period .To me it's a mystery how anyone could have composed something so small and so perfect .This piece is mainly
about melody .This perfect melody could have been written away from a piano .Perhaps fully completing the skerch later at a piano .
The Romantic period is all about "everything that is higher than life"
The pianino could have stayed in corner unplayed unoticed ,except
by George Sands lively children where perhaps it's strange tones hovered around or perhaps it became a mirror of Chopin's own melancholic moods .I do not know why the Preludes have such contrasts -dark ,agitated ,lyricism with almost a childlike innocence, charm , and virtuosity .
The pianino cannot explain the Preludes but it is an interesting link.

Last edited by Lady Bird; 12/21/18 02:35 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: Chopin's pianino [Re: Lady Bird] #2793939 12/21/18 05:47 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,725
pianoloverus Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 26,725
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I agree the A major and G are totally different. To me there is a possibility that Chopin could even written these without a piano .
He could have written any of them away from the piano.

Originally Posted by Lady Bird
I do not know why the Preludes have such contrasts -dark ,agitated ,lyricism with almost a childlike innocence, charm , and virtuosity .
If they didn't have contrasts the entire collection or a selection would be very boring.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/21/18 05:51 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Metronome Steps
by Sam S - 02/23/20 02:41 PM
Piano Purchase Advice - SoCal/Orange County
by talkoftheweather - 02/23/20 02:35 PM
New set of Ronsen Weickert hammers on KAWAI RX3
by Bruce Sato - 02/23/20 01:16 PM
German pianos/pianists, US
by Maestro Lennie - 02/23/20 12:58 PM
Writing Whilst You're at the Piano ?
by AndyOnThePiano - 02/23/20 12:33 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,142
Posts2,929,032
Members96,081
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3