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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Originally Posted by slobajudge
Wrong end Grazilerimba, so many dilemmas, but you can do it, you are so close from decision, just imagine, new Steinway, this is something you`ve been waiting for smile .Help us everybody, hehe smile


Me in the past few years:

https://i.imgur.com/pVPBMxx.png

I want it to stop frown

Hahaha, fantastic picture, don`t worry, I am your left ear there, the only difference I don`t want to stop (at least till I get real Steinway D), I like to run for it, it is so excited smile

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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If you really need a Steinway, get the Vintage D. It's much cheaper, and it's quite good.


I second this. I just picked that up on Black Friday, and once I put in the right settings, it sounded really nice, much better than the TrueKeys American Grand.

Still, I can't help but think that the VSL Steinway will be the ultimate virtual representation of a Steinway D, so I really want to get it too! 3hearts

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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba
Hot damn, I didn't expect this so soon. The timing sucks, where am I going to get the money from to buy this now? My purse is roasted from Black Friday, and Christmas sails are singing to me to crash against their rocks.

This is it though - I feel like, if this VST is not going to please me, no other VST in the foreseeable future will. The Garritan CFX is still my favorite overall, but it's a CFX, and I would love a Steinway. That's why I want the same crew at Garritan to make a Steinway in the same manner, but it looks like this is not going to happen.

It is so interesting to read so many different opinions by people in this forum. To be honest, I found that only playing a VST myself allows me to form an opinion. I've had it so often that people praise something enthusiastically, and then I buy it, and then I found that I didn't enjoy it at all. Then people will dislike something that I ended up liking. And so on. The Embertone, for example. I find it unacceptable, for others it is the greatest VST they have ever played. As for the Vintage D, it is very dated now, even though it still has great playability, but it doesn't have pedal down samples. This one is certainly going to blow it out of the water, but we will see.

The big question for this VST for me personally is, are there going to be out of tune notes as well as notes that stand out in an unpleasant way again? They were unacceptable in the Vienna Imperial, and just barely acceptable in their CFX.

Also to be honest I am not sure whether I want to spend another three digits on a company that uses this kind of DRM with dongles. Even though they have a new protection plan, but still.

Damn it. This is the VST I have been waiting for for the last few years. At the same time, I'm not happy about its release at all. Someone please buy it and tell me it sucks?

Insightfull post i surely can relate to.

I personally skipped the Synchron CFX , because it sounds cold as ice in all available sound examples.
I believe it won't be superiour to pianoteq from a playing experience, and i skipped Pianoteq too...... and Roland for that matter, because it simply does not sound appealing enough to me.
Further more i don't like the Synchron stage at all, just like the room the Hammersmith was recorded in .... which i deleted among many other expensive vst's that were an impulse buy.

I really like the Embertone hammer mics and use it all the time.
Yes it has it's flaws, detuned notes, slightly worn out recorded 1955 Steinway and missing details from lacking pedal implementation.
But in a mix it is superbly sounding.
The haunting resonance and overall tone makes for a recording in a mix that sounds like a real piano.
Sure the Garritan CFX sounds more even, has better playability , but doesn't sound nearly as real and rewarding in a mix.

Plus the Embertone also covers some territory of an upright while maintaining the full sound of a grand piano.

I understand those in need of the perfect solo grand piano vst's will need different specs than what i need.
I always wonder how people mention a thunderous bass register as a benefit, while i like a much more gentile and subtle bass register.


Last edited by pianistje; 12/06/18 07:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by Grazilerimba

The big question for this VST for me personally is, are there going to be out of tune notes as well as notes that stand out in an unpleasant way again? They were unacceptable in the Vienna Imperial, and just barely acceptable in their CFX.


Can't answer that yet (I'll get this VST in a couple of weeks' time and will be able to tell you more then, though seriously out of tune notes would show up in the demos as well), but if there's one thing that's absolutely clear from acquiring too many VSTs in recent years, it is that the house style trumps the instrument every time. Or to put it another way, a Steinway from VSL will sound far more like a CFX from VSL, than even a CFX from Garritan. The sound differences from different piano models, which undoubtedly important and audible, are much smaller than the sound differences from different sampling and processing methods.

What that means is that by far the best predictor of what the VSL Steinway D will sound like is the VSL CFX. If you don't get on with the latter, I'd be wary about spending a lot of money on the former. The Synchron stage dominates the sound in both even judging purely from the demos; they're both very sharp, bright, slightly cold, crystal clear, strong. I would expect the Steinway D to sound slightly more rounded, and that would be enormously to its benefit in this style of sampling and you can hear it somewhat in the Lizst demos, but then some of the others (the Chopin and Beethoven especially) are almost brutally hard and bright, so this isn't going to be a mellow, lyrical Steinway D experience I suspect.


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I don`t expect that VSL Steinway will sound as sweet and real as Embertone which is my favorite. Problem with demos on VSL site is they are all swimming in too much reverb and they choose fast pieces. This is very good for orchestra sound but I want to feel like there is a wire and hammer inside DP when I play it. Yes VSL sounds real from distance, but I have a doubt that it will be the same feeling for me, cold and far sound similar to VSL CFX. Unfortunately the cost is very high to experiment with. Maybe I will change my mind once I get it. We will see...

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This piano is definitely not for me. It's like I'm sitting in a hall 30 meters away from the instrument. Still waiting for Garritan to record and release a Garritan Steinway D Concert Grand.

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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Unfortunately the cost is very high to experiment with. Maybe I will change my mind once I get it.

Too funny!

Originally Posted by slobajudge
Problem with demos on VSL site is they are all swimming in too much reverb and they choose fast pieces.

Indeed. Maybe the Full version can help attenuate the room reverb with the additional close & mid mics. The recently uploaded demo "Giving Thanks" is slower but also a bit heavy in room ambience IMO.

VSL seem to be adding more demos (I find the short videos are fun to watch):

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Steinway_D#!Videos
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Steinway_D#!Demos

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Originally Posted by Alex C
This piano is definitely not for me. It's like I'm sitting in a hall 30 meters away from the instrument. Still waiting for Garritan to record and release a Garritan Steinway D Concert Grand.


As you said, this piano is for a performer like me who wants to feel the play in the hall. But you can make close sounds through the tweak in Synchron Piano. I've done enough experiments with VSL CFX, and it's definitely possible. And they also seem to have adding a Close 3 mic to give shape to such sound.

Garritan CFX is of course good enough, and it's too difficult for me to compare the priority between VSL and Garritan because they are both unique and complementary. If you want to experience Garritan Steinway in a hurry, you have to buy their Personal Orchestra 5 including Steinway D & B. But it is uncertain whether a single Steinway D product will be developed.

Last edited by angmyu; 12/07/18 03:18 AM.
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Hi! A couple of questions from someone who has no experience with the the VSTs from VSL.

The VSL Synchron Steinway D requires a "AU/VST/AAX Native compatible host (AAX version requires Pro Tools 10.3.5 or higher)".

- What is this "compatible host"? Is it a separate product from VSL or from a third party that needs to be bought additionally?
- Does this VST work with the free "Synchron Player" from VSL? It seems so, but that is not clear.
- What is the "Pro Tools 10.3.5" software? Is it a software package from VSL? It is not part of VSL's product list (https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Products/Product_List)

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It's a great vst, but to hear it, I had to increase the volume 50%. Why on earth they don't do proper demos at the right volume? If they want to advertise it properly they need to fix this immediately. It's nice to see how important is the way the robot mimic the human touch when striking the key.

Last edited by pold; 12/07/18 09:18 AM.
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So the Synchron stage manifests itself only in the non-close samples? Is that right? And, if I've understood, it's the ambience that draws most detractors?

On the voucher system, could two mutually trusting members share the cost of 3+1 vouchers to buy just this library at an additional discount of 50 euros each?

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In other forum, Guy Bacos who played VSL's demo said to people who wanted closer samples :
"No worries, there will be more demos, and some drier."

I expect them to upload some more close sample demos.

Last edited by angmyu; 12/07/18 09:43 AM.
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Originally Posted by dire tonic
So the Synchron stage manifests itself only in the non-close samples? Is that right? And, if I've understood, it's the ambience that draws most detractors?


It's certainly more apparent in the non-close samples, and because of the completely open mixer, you can blend whatever mics you want including only close ones and mid ones, which will give a sense of a close instrument. Turning down the release samples and the builtin reverb also helps considerably with that. It's never going to sound completely dry in the way that something like the TrueKeys American Grand does, however, and that's not the purpose of it. Indeed, one of the reasons the CFX sounds so good when playing, and this Steinway sounds so good in the demos, is that the room resonance is still in the samples. That's true to a large extent of the Garritan CFX as well.

So you can certainly make it closer and drier than what you hear in the demos at the moment, but you'll never make it completely dry, and probably you wouldn't want to.


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I am absolutely speechless! My fauvorite grand piano sound - Hamburg Steinway D by VSL - at last!!!

Originally Posted by pold
It's a great vst, but to hear it, I had to increase the volume 50%. Why on earth they don't do proper demos at the right volume?

Yes, I agree with above.
So - at this moment and probably for long time I won't afford for that VST but I'll be following demos and dreaming about it wink

Last edited by Rychubil; 12/07/18 10:59 AM.

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Originally Posted by dire tonic


On the voucher system, could two mutually trusting members share the cost of 3+1 vouchers to buy just this library at an additional discount of 50 euros each?


Each voucher is just a serial number that you enter at the checkout in the VSL shop. You can give them to anyone.

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WAY OVERPRICED
Just over six months ago (end of May 2018) I purchased VSL Synchron Yamaha CFX Standard Version and it only cost 185 EUR / £ 161.96 GBP from Best Service. (Plus I had to buy the stupid eLicenser also).

So I can't understand why (barely six months later) this VSL Synchron Steinway D Standard Version now costs 285 EUR list price - that's 100 EUR more than I paid for CFX…?!!
Even their current December deal 245 EUR / approx £218.81 GBP is way overpriced. At least I've already got an eLicenser this time.
Basically it's just too expensive for most people to take a punt on, a blind gamble purchasing a sampled piano that may turn out to be rubbish once you actually try it yourself, with no trial demo / no refunds.

I was highly unimpressed with the VSL Synchron Yamaha CFX (I'll explain why in a moment) so I'm quite glad / relieved to have ONLY wasted £161.96 on CFX standard version, rather than CFX full version - I'd have been kicking myself if I'd wasted that much money! Consequently, no way would I buy the full version of this Steinway without testing the water with the standard version first.
Steinway's full 540 EUR list price (approx. £ 482.42 GBP) is absolutely ludicrous! I realise the current December deal price of 460 EUR combined with the 300 EUR voucher + 100 EUR free voucher offer does mean you can acquire the full version right now for 360 EUR (approx £321.62) but that's still far more than I wish to gamble, based on my experience of their CFX samples on their VSL software engine.

Maybe if they offered a refund for the CFX (cancel serial number and delete) so I could just crossgrade to the equivalent Steinway library intead for a small crossgrade fee, I might be willing to do that - I've got nothing to lose anymore with the CFX because I never use it.

I think ideally, price strategy wise, they should just sell each mic perspective individually for about 50 EUR each, so you can buy only as many as you actually want or need. In which case I'd choose 3 close mics for the Steinway, and no mid or surround mics, as even the close mics are already drowning in hall ambience anyway. If people want to buy all 11 perspectives for around 550 EUR like VSL are hoping (or some package discount) then fine, but not me.

SYMPATHETIC RESONANCE ALWAYS OFF
Watch every video (official VSL demo) of Synchron CFX or Steinway and look closely at the screenshots. "Body resonance = 0%" and "Sympathetic Resonance = -INFINITY dB" always. They don't want you to hear how bad those effects are. So they've got them turned OFF in every demo they publish.
I only discovered this of course after I'd paid for, downloaded, installed and eventually played CFX for myself. I wanted to hear with the sympathetic resonance turned on. But it only took me about 20 seconds of playing it to discover how bad and unrealistic their sympathetic string resonance implementation sounds, and how is does not behave correctly for notes above AND below the main key you're holding down. It is very frustrating and dissappointing, on such an expensive and (at first glance) supposedly high quality piano library. (Which has other great promising features like the mic mixer and the 88 key tuning and edits, etc.)
For me, any digital or software piano MUST have pedal sustain resonance and sympathetic string resonance working properly to be accecptable.
I've got the latest 1.0.915 update for CFX, but it's a fault which has not been rectified, and I dare say will rear its ugly head with the Steinway too that runs on exactly the same VSL Synchron player engine and interface.

I've got at least 31 software pianos currently installed on my computer, so I'm not in desparate need of buying another, especially a way overpriced yet dissapointing one, but I'd love to be proved wrong that this Steinway D can somehow deliver a clean, dry, up-clsoe realistic sound WITH proper sympathetic string resonance behaviour - I'd buy that.

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I second most of your thoughts above, I have also VSL CFX and I am not using it at all. Unfortunately without buying we can not bring valid conclusions about it and the price is very high. In VSL CFX be it close or distant sound is the same more or less except normal perspective changes in sound. With acoustic piano if you are close you will hear lots of resonance and vice versa in distant. I want that and I am afraid to put lots of money for this piano if they apply the same engine like in CFX. I will waiting for more close mics demos.

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Originally Posted by Gabriel Hikaru
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If you really need a Steinway, get the Vintage D. It's much cheaper, and it's quite good.


I second this. I just picked that up on Black Friday, and once I put in the right settings, it sounded really nice, much better than the TrueKeys American Grand.

Still, I can't help but think that the VSL Steinway will be the ultimate virtual representation of a Steinway D, so I really want to get it too! 3hearts


What are the right settings for you? I have the vintage D but I have never really liked it. But I have only played it at stock. What did you change?


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I ordered the full version and am downloading it now. Unfortunately, my internet at home is so slow that it's going to take 24 - 48 hours to download. frown

I like the way my VSL CFX plays. It feels like a real piano. However, it can be a little bit sharp or piercing in its tone. My Garritan CFX lite doesn't play as well, but defiantly has a more subdued tone which is good for some songs.

I'm hoping that the VSL Steinway with will have the playability of the VSL CFX with a bit more warmth like the Garritan.

God Bless,
David

Last edited by David B; 12/07/18 04:31 PM.

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I also ordered the full version!
It's downloading now - will take probably 40-50 minutes...

I listened carefully to the sound, especially on the videos - sounds like a Steinway D to me...


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