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Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! #2786564
11/30/18 06:02 PM
11/30/18 06:02 PM
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Foster City, CA, US
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Ken Iisaka Offline OP
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The Van Cliburn Foundation (Or are they now just called, The Cliburn?) just announced the 2020 edition of the Cliburn International Amateur Piano Competition:

https://www.cliburn.org/2020-amateur-competition

The finals with the Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra remains, but the number of competitors and stages was reduced. In 2020, there are three stages, down from 4 in 2016, and 48 competitors (down from 75) get invited. 24 additional "non-competitive" participants are also invited who will also play 15-minute recitals for the audience and the jury who will provide feedback.

For the 48 competitors, the preliminary is 15 minutes, up from 8-10 minutes in 2016 and 12 minutes since 2007.
20 competitors advance to the semifinal, which is a 28-minute recital. In earlier editions, the second stage was 18-20 minutes.
The third stage as a semi-final that was only in 2016 is eliminated. The third stage in 2020 is the final, as it was before, but it will be a concerto movement with the FWSO.

The concerto repertoire is changed a little, with an addition of the first movement of Mozart K.271, and all movements of Prokofiev Concerto No.3 being what I noticed immediately.

I hope to participate again, but I wonder I've used up too much room already, having participated thrice. Also, having had a chance to play the first movement of Prokofiev 3 this past summer at the Piano Texas festival checked off one big item in my bucket list. Perhaps I can still relearn the second or the third movement, which are also on the repertoire list.

Off the top of my head though, I'm thinking of bringing:

Medtner Forgotten Melodies II, Op.39: No.3 - Primavera, No.4 - Canzona Matinata, No.5 - Sonata Tragica
Liszt Funerailles, S.173, No.7
Chopin Polonaise Héroïque, Op.53
Bach WTC II, No.3, BWV 872

Perhaps I should add something from the classical period and more modern repertoire, too.

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Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2786569
11/30/18 06:27 PM
11/30/18 06:27 PM
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Hakki Online content
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Non competitors invited to a competition!
Now that is really something new.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2786600
11/30/18 09:13 PM
11/30/18 09:13 PM
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Sorry, I am not good enough.



Casio GP-400
Schimmel SP-182T
Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2786789
12/01/18 02:44 PM
12/01/18 02:44 PM
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Nah, I don't think you need to worry about having used too much room. grin
There's always room for someone like you!!

I didn't make it last time when they had 75. Knowing our 'population,' I'd say getting into a field of 48 is about 5 times harder. Really. With 75, there's room for people who are real good but perhaps with 'issues' about their playing. With just 48, that probably limits it to people who are at least at a quasi-professional level. Of course I'll still try -- and I think I'm playing better, but I don't know if I'm playing 5 times better. ha

Your program looks pretty fine to me.

Mine might look something like:

Preliminary:
Chopin Etude in F minor, Op. 25 #2
Scriabin Etude in B♭minor, Op. 8 # 11
Beethoven Sonata in F# major, Op. 78

Semifinal:
Chopin Polonaise in F# minor
Scriabin Sonata #10

Concerto (yeah right): grin
Mozart A major, K. 488, last movement


Of course our repertoire sometimes turns over several times in a year and a half, so who knows.....
But the main question mark (for most of us) is simply getting in.
(I wouldn't go if I'd only get into the 'non-competition' thing.)

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2786936
12/02/18 01:46 AM
12/02/18 01:46 AM
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The stakes have definitely been raised. Harder to get in. Harder to advance. Then there's all these new youngsters (I speak relatively) all over the world wanting a piece of the action. Michael Cheung, anyone? Some of the new talent showed up unexpectedly at WIPAC this year and, well, you know what happened there. But Cliburn is the big one, so we give it our all, right? I've become engrossed in my chamber music activities right now, i.e. Brahms Quintet, though I'm learning Chopin's Scherzo #4, so I hope to use that in my audition "mix tape" (that's my son's word for it). I just wish they'd included Beethoven 4 first movement.

Repertoire thoughts for me, randomly presented:
Schumann Novellettes 1, 2, 6, 8
Chopin Scherzo Op. 54
Balakirev Mazurkas 5 and 6
Beethoven something
Bach Partita #2 some combination of the last three movements

Concerto (yeah right):
Mozart K. 467 I, 488 III, or Tchaik 1 III

lol


SRF
Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: SiFi] #2787012
12/02/18 10:38 AM
12/02/18 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SiFi
Beethoven something

Cool -- I love that piece! grin

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2787037
12/02/18 12:33 PM
12/02/18 12:33 PM
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Simon will you consider going if you are selected as a non competitor ?

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Hakki] #2787047
12/02/18 01:06 PM
12/02/18 01:06 PM
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Foster City, CA, US
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Ken Iisaka Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Simon will you consider going if you are selected as a non competitor ?


Not a chance that will happen to Simon, but I can imagine it being a bit demoralizing, especially to first-timers.

Perhaps they will give the benefit of doubt to first-timers and invite them as a competitor, but for seasoned participants, the bar should be higher, no?

It is in Cliburn's interest to raise the bar as high as possible.

But it will be intense: 48 15-minute preliminary recitals in three days, and 20 28-minute semi-final in 2 days. That's already 12 hours of preliminary (8 sessions of 6 competitors plus semifinalist announcement?) and 10 hours of semis (5 sessions of 4 competitors plus finalist announcement?) When will the non-competitive participants play? Concurrently with the preliminary? During the "off" day between the semi and the final? Wow. It really will be so intense, even more so than previous editions.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2787057
12/02/18 01:23 PM
12/02/18 01:23 PM
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English is not my first language. Maybe that is why I tend to interpret non-competitive participants as "not so competent players".

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2787066
12/02/18 02:12 PM
12/02/18 02:12 PM
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Thanks for sharing this, I have only been taking lessons for 5 years, but I buy the DVD of the competitions. Those who even consider to complete are probably very few world wide. Just the thought that you can apply is phenomenal, what a life time accomplishment to be that good. That is what comes with dedication, perseverance, sacrifice, and motivation. One of my husbands friends won the Galax Fiddlers Convection years ago in the banjo competition. I asked him if he still competes. He said, I have placed before but is has taken me 30 years to win first place, that was my goal and after that I stopped competing. I thought wow, that was dedication for 30 years.


Deb
"A goal properly set is halfway reached." Zig Ziglar
Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2787177
12/02/18 08:11 PM
12/02/18 08:11 PM
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God damn it I'm too old for Juliusz Zarębski International Music Competition, I'm too young for Cliburn International Amateur Piano Competition, how to live frown

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2787204
12/03/18 12:05 AM
12/03/18 12:05 AM
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I think Prokofiev 3 last movement would be my concerto choice. Or the first movement. The Tchaikovsky has always been a dream of mine, but the third movement by itself doesn't sound right. Also the first movement from any of the Mozart or Beethoven concertos would be great.

Now if it were possible to play all three movements, it would be Beethoven 4 without question.

First round:
Gubaidulina Chaconne
Maybe some Bach.

Second round:
Schumann Sonata no.3. It lasts exactly 28 minutes.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Mark_C] #2787298
12/03/18 09:44 AM
12/03/18 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by SiFi
Beethoven something

Cool -- I love that piece! grin

I just snarfed my morning coffee on that.

You owe me a clean iPhone screen.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2787316
12/03/18 10:55 AM
12/03/18 10:55 AM
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The introduction of the "non-competitive" group is to me a very interesting new wrinkle indeed. Under this proviso, the members of the jury assessing your audition video (I understand that video is now required) will determine where they feel you belong after assessing all of the others, and of course must inform you of their decision. The question for me, if I were placed in the non-competitive group, is: "Would it be worth it to me to travel to Dallas-Fort Worth to participate in The Cliburn Amateur, knowing in advance that I was going to play just one 15 minute program?". And I believe that the Cliburn people have asked themselves that question, and are now confident enough to say with reasonable assurance that -- Yes. the great bulk of applicants want just the experience of playing in what has now become a prestigious international event, and would be willing to accept their locked-in "15 minutes of fame". If nothing else (and I think this is quite an important consideration), the participants then get to choose what they feel are theiractual best 15 minutes for them, as opposed to choosing pieces that really must of necessity reflect their virtuosic capability. And they don't have the pressure of standing behind 60 minutes of music, plus a concerto. Put in another way, most of the amateur applicants really do have a keen sense of self-awareness of their respective "levels", and would welcome the opportunity simply to participate in the Cliburn ambience, one loaded with kindred spirits.

Last edited by Tim Adrianson; 12/03/18 10:57 AM.
Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2787542
12/03/18 09:24 PM
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I'm pleased to see a longer opening round. Fifteen minutes is a substantial difference from ten in terms of what one can program. I haven't yet figured out how I feel about the non-competitive group; I'd have to see the details. The scheduling questions that Ken mentioned are important, and it's not clear what audience there will be.

Not that I'm likely to qualify, since they didn't like me enough last time around, and I've probably regressed relative to the applicant pool, but I'd be tempted to program the Liszt Ballade No. 2 for the preliminary round, and the Alkan Symphony for Solo Piano for the second round, after which point the jury would wave their hands in frustration and shout, "I thought we were done with Alkan after Ken!" (I know, single-piece performance rounds are bad ideas.) Probably Beethoven 3 (i) or Tchaikovsky 1 (iii) for the concerto round.

As a side note, I'm very jealous of Simon's getting to work on the Brahms quintet. One of these days, that or the two-piano version...

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2787972
12/05/18 06:58 AM
12/05/18 06:58 AM
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I plan to apply and am torn on what I'll choose for the different rounds. Right now, I'm thinking based on what I'm working on now for a recital in March... so maybe I'll do something else

I will probably put Chopin's Ballade in G minor in there somewhere
and Bach, which I think I play pretty well - maybe a P&F in one round or maybe part or all of French Suite in G major in the other
I would like to do the entire Haydn 52 but not sure about that
and some Debussy, of course (but not the Arabesque this time... sorry, Ken!) Maybe la soirée dans Grenade and jardins sous la pluie. Or maybe l'isle joyeuse.
For the concerto, I'll probably plan the Tchaikovsky 3rd mvt.

There are a couple pieces I did in 2016 that I'd like the chance to do again, like that Hungarian Rhapsody. I still haven't done it to my satisfaction in performance. But who knows...

I'm glad we have a year to figure all this out.


aka LadyArabesque (or Kermit the Frog)
I will keep playing and singing as long as it makes people happy.
Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Mark_C] #2788075
12/05/18 12:23 PM
12/05/18 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by SiFi
Beethoven something

Cool -- I love that piece! grin


A tad overplayed, don’t you think?


If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?
Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Tim Adrianson] #2788368
12/06/18 11:26 AM
12/06/18 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Adrianson
The introduction of the "non-competitive" group is to me a very interesting new wrinkle indeed. Under this proviso, the members of the jury assessing your audition video (I understand that video is now required) will determine where they feel you belong after assessing all of the others, and of course must inform you of their decision. The question for me, if I were placed in the non-competitive group, is: "Would it be worth it to me to travel to Dallas-Fort Worth to participate in The Cliburn Amateur, knowing in advance that I was going to play just one 15 minute program?". And I believe that the Cliburn people have asked themselves that question, and are now confident enough to say with reasonable assurance that -- Yes. the great bulk of applicants want just the experience of playing in what has now become a prestigious international event, and would be willing to accept their locked-in "15 minutes of fame". If nothing else (and I think this is quite an important consideration), the participants then get to choose what they feel are theiractual best 15 minutes for them, as opposed to choosing pieces that really must of necessity reflect their virtuosic capability. And they don't have the pressure of standing behind 60 minutes of music, plus a concerto. Put in another way, most of the amateur applicants really do have a keen sense of self-awareness of their respective "levels", and would welcome the opportunity simply to participate in the Cliburn ambience, one loaded with kindred spirits.


Technically, there has not been a big change. It is actually less work for those good pianists. They just need to prepare two rounds. The first round is basically video competition. It is good for the organizer and also for the good pianists. By having a video competition for the first round, the organizer can choose up to 24 pianists who are decent enough. The question is whether the invitees for non-competing section will show up or not. It can be the organizer objective not to deal with so so pianists (not bad, but not good). In the past, those who did not advance to the second round are so so pianists anyway. I personally prefer this new system.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: RonaldSteinway] #2788429
12/06/18 02:44 PM
12/06/18 02:44 PM
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Ken Iisaka Offline OP
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Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
Technically, there has not been a big change. It is actually less work for those good pianists. They just need to prepare two rounds. The first round is basically video competition. It is good for the organizer and also for the good pianists. By having a video competition for the first round, the organizer can choose up to 24 pianists who are decent enough. The question is whether the invitees for non-competing section will show up or not. It can be the organizer objective not to deal with so so pianists (not bad, but not good). In the past, those who did not advance to the second round are so so pianists anyway. I personally prefer this new system.


I thought having a longer preliminary is a good idea: More people get to play longer programs. In previous years, people played a total of 20 minutes on average. In 2020, the average goes to over 30 minutes.

Having played the first movement of Prokofiev 3 with FWSO earlier this year at PianoTexas, I am gravitating towards the third movement of the same concerto for 2020. I haven't played it in 30 years...

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2788432
12/06/18 02:56 PM
12/06/18 02:56 PM
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Why not let the non competing pianist play longer than 15 minutes(up to 25 minutes, for example) if they want to? That might encourage more to actually show up.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: RonaldSteinway] #2788441
12/06/18 03:13 PM
12/06/18 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
The first round is basically video competition.


I wonder what pieces would competitive candidates who are not interested in non-competitive participation (like Ken, Simon, Mark, coaster) include in their video.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Hakki] #2788463
12/06/18 04:56 PM
12/06/18 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
I wonder what pieces would competitive candidates who are not interested in non-competitive participation (like Ken, Simon, Mark, coaster) include in their video.

Hello Hakki! Nice to see you here!

Just wondering: Why would you think it matters for what we might include in the video if we are or aren't interested in the non-competitive thing? I would think it's the same either way.

What I will submit is simply whatever I will be thinking are my best two or three "contrasting" pieces that add up to the indicated length.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Hakki] #2788495
12/06/18 06:37 PM
12/06/18 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
The first round is basically video competition.


I wonder what pieces would competitive candidates who are not interested in non-competitive participation (like Ken, Simon, Mark, coaster) include in their video.


To erase any uncertainty, on the application form, the organizer should allow the applicants to choose the following categories:

1. Competitive Category only. Do not enter me as Non-Competitive applicants if my playing does not meet the Competitive Quality.
2. Non Competitive Category only.
3. Based on my quality of playing, please enter me in the appropriate category.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2788501
12/06/18 07:02 PM
12/06/18 07:02 PM
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Actually, if there is no way for you to let them know your intention, you just add a qualification to your application form. You just state "Please do not enter me as non-competitive if my playing does not meet the quality of competitive section".

It is virtually impossible for us to determine what kind of pieces that we have to include in the video to avoid being added to the non-competitive section. As long as you do not play too easy of pieces, the determination is based on the quality of your playing.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2788568
12/07/18 01:04 AM
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There are also a couple of points that needs clarification I think.

It says all competition performances will be webcast live.

Will they also broadcast the performances of non-competitive participants ?

It also says non-competitive participants will play up to 15 minutes for comments from our esteemed panel of jurors.

Will this be public at the moment of performance and broadcast live or is it to mean that they will receive comments afterwards?

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Mark_C] #2788574
12/07/18 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Hakki
I wonder what pieces would competitive candidates who are not interested in non-competitive participation (like Ken, Simon, Mark, coaster) include in their video.

Hello Hakki! Nice to see you here!

Just wondering: Why would you think it matters for what we might include in the video if we are or aren't interested in the non-competitive thing? I would think it's the same either way.

What I will submit is simply whatever I will be thinking are my best two or three "contrasting" pieces that add up to the indicated length.


@ Mark_C:

OT:

Even though I am not involved with any piano competitions wanted to let you know that I have been steadily working on mastering Chopin's 4th Ballade as this now is a continuation of the following post that you replied to:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2762948/re-question-for-gyro.html#Post2762948

The previous issues mentioned above have taken a back seat to the good news which is that I will soon be purchasing a Baldwin SF-10 (seven-foot) grand piano in January. Read the post here:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2787892/baldwin-sf-10-grand-piano.html#Post2787892

As I am currently posting as new member "gp84" which means -- grand piano '84 -- and, the piano I am soon buying was built in 1984 and was also signed on the plate by Jorge Bolet!

The SF-10 is in very good condition and has also had additional "Stanwood PTD (Precision Touch Design)" modification work done on it to bring the action up to concert level.

Check out the current pics, here:

https://imgur.com/a/3nkwAKA

Thanks -- for reading this! grin

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Hakki] #2788620
12/07/18 06:40 AM
12/07/18 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Hakki
Originally Posted by RonaldSteinway
The first round is basically video competition.


I wonder what pieces would competitive candidates who are not interested in non-competitive participation (like Ken, Simon, Mark, coaster) include in their video.


You can attach multiple videos to the application, so you don't have to do it all in one sitting. In 2016, I had three videos. A Bach Prelude & Fugue, the first movement of Haydn's Sonata 52, and Liszt's Un Sospiro.

I think it's more important that you share whatever it is you do best, because at Cliburn 2016, someone asked Olga Kern at the judges' symposium about programming for competitions, and that is what she said. After Cliburn was over, I asked Nelita True about the Grieg Notturno (Op. 54, No. 4) that I played in the second round and Debussy's Arabesque No. 1 that I had played in the first round... I asked if programming those two "junior" pieces had hurt me. I had a few people try to discourage me from programming them because they were too easy. She said she listens to the performance quality and doesn't judge on the difficulty. So play whatever you can play like an artist.


aka LadyArabesque (or Kermit the Frog)
I will keep playing and singing as long as it makes people happy.
Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: coaster] #2788632
12/07/18 07:59 AM
12/07/18 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by coaster
You can attach multiple videos to the application, so you don't have to do it all in one sitting. In 2016, I had three videos. A Bach Prelude & Fugue, the first movement of Haydn's Sonata 52, and Liszt's Un Sospiro...
...play whatever you can play like an artist.


Thank you coaster.

I remember your videos and your competition performances.
You had a very solid technique and looked very confident.
And of course you were playing like an artist.

How about including an excerpt from the concerto also. Maybe from 8 bars before Molto piu mosso till the end of Tschaikowsky 3rd movement.
That could make the jury more comfortable when picking the finalists. They would at least be sure that there won't be a surprise at Bass Hall. I think they wouldn't want to risk that.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2788732
12/07/18 11:45 AM
12/07/18 11:45 AM
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Interesting -- it seems everyone understands why one might think it makes a difference what we'd put on the video if we're interested only in the competition part or if we'd be interested to get into either part. I don't get it at all.

Since my main emotion in life is curiosity grin I'd love it if anyone could explain it.

Re: Cliburn Amateur 2020 Announced! [Re: coaster] #2788737
12/07/18 12:04 PM
12/07/18 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by coaster
After Cliburn was over, I asked Nelita True about the Grieg Notturno (Op. 54, No. 4) that I played in the second round and Debussy's Arabesque No. 1 that I had played in the first round... I asked if programming those two "junior" pieces had hurt me. I had a few people try to discourage me from programming them because they were too easy. She said she listens to the performance quality and doesn't judge on the difficulty. So play whatever you can play like an artist.
I find True's comment hard to believe as being a completely honest. If it was completely true, most contestants would choose pieces whose technical difficulties they could handle easily. In reality, from what I've seen many of the contestants(possibly excepting the top finishers) choose pieces that are somewhat of a technical struggle for them. It's possible that True really judges that way but what about all the other judges?

I find it impossible to believe that if two pianists played with equal musicality but one played much more technically difficult pieces, the one playing the harder pieces wouldn't have a big advantage.The Cliburn is one of the more prestigious amateur competitions so why wouldn't this competition's judging look for a high level of technical mastery?

I don't know what the rest of your program was in the first two rounds, but it's also possible that the rest of your pieces demonstrated sufficient technical mastery so in cases like this it's reasonable to include a less technically demanding piece. But what if all your pieces were on the level of the Debussy Arabesque? It's seems inconceivable to me that this would not be considered a negative in evaluating a contestant.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 12/07/18 12:10 PM.
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