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Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: oscar1] #2787966
12/05/18 07:33 AM
12/05/18 07:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,824
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
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Originally Posted by oscar1
On the other side, to became a good piano player in communist block was a miracle. Most of the teachers were simply sadistic frustrated bitches who had their dreams crushed and they would take it on the kids making piano playing the least enjoyable they could. It produced quite army of kids that hated the instrument with a passion and begged their parents to cancel their lessons. But there were some good teachers, like my aunt, just very few sadly.

My wife who was in music school in Moscow and then East Berlin tells me of her teacher who would try to slam the fallboard on her fingers. She got very good at yanking her hands away from the keyboard when she would make a mistake to avoid them getting crushed. She was 6yo at the time.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
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Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2787974
12/05/18 08:03 AM
12/05/18 08:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 178
Trondheim; Norway
T
Tor E Bekken Offline
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Tor E Bekken  Offline
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T

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 178
Trondheim; Norway
Well, I have two acoustic pianos.

Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2787985
12/05/18 08:51 AM
12/05/18 08:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 311
Ontario, Canada
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halherta Offline
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halherta  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 311
Ontario, Canada
Yeah well, In the 1900s we didn't have digital pianos and all of their variants; console, slim cabinet, slab home and slab stage. Neither did we have hybrid pianos, midi controllers nor keyboards. The art of piano playing is a live and well and as popular as ever. Acoustic pianos not so much, primarily because they're very heavy and impractical. People are also living in smaller spaces and more are renting. So having a large/heavy instrument within the home is not as practical as it used to be.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2788015
12/05/18 10:49 AM
12/05/18 10:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,997
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Raleigh, North Carolina
In the US people are NOT living in smaller spaces. The average home size in the US has increased radically. Around 400 square feet for a family was typically in US cities a century ago. Today single-occupant apartments are often twice that size, and single-family homes are mostly larger than 1500 square feet, and often 2x or 3x that size.

And digital pianos save only a small amount of space. Height doesn't really matter. Width doesn't matter much ... a digital slab might be 55" wide, while the biggest upright is only 5 or 6 inches wider. The only real difference is the depth. Around 12" for a slab, 18" to 24" for a digital console, and mid- or high-20's for an acoustic upright.

So I don't think space is the reason for the decline in piano uptake.

The big difference is price, both that of the piano and that of upkeep.

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Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2788027
12/05/18 11:30 AM
12/05/18 11:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 311
Ontario, Canada
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halherta Offline
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 311
Ontario, Canada
@MacMacMac I wholeheartedly agree. Cost of buying and maintaining an acoustic piano are the major reasons why many prefer digitals. Though weight, dimensions & portability are also valid reasons. But are digital pianos adequate enough to replace acoustic pianos in terms of sound and feel? I think the mid to higher end models are indeed adequate enough.



Yamaha P-125, Pianoteq 6, Ravenscroft 275 VST, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2788344
12/06/18 11:06 AM
12/06/18 11:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 62
Ontario, Canada
SilentQ Offline
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SilentQ  Offline
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Posts: 62
Ontario, Canada
I have an acoustic. I just bought a new grand.

Up until this point I have been using a digital. Digital sales must be going crazy if the acoustic sales are down. They start at a significantly lower price point. I got the Yamaha DGX-660 for $1000 and it has all of the bells and whistles.

I got this because of the price point and the price point alone. I had the space for a grand, but I didn't want to spend so much money or time and effort on an acoustic just to learn that I didn't want to continue with learning the instrument. That would entail even more money and work to get rid of it.

It is the perfect middle ground for new students. Realistically enough represented action and sound, at a practical price. Even as students progress, their budget may not and they can never afford to move to an acoustic, but that is okay because a digital is close enough. Some of the higher end digitals even have a great aesthetic appeal leaving no reason to ever move to an acoustic.

Q


Q
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: halherta] #2788459
12/06/18 05:19 PM
12/06/18 05:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,599
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bennevis Offline
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Originally Posted by halherta
@MacMacMac I wholeheartedly agree. Cost of buying and maintaining an acoustic piano are the major reasons why many prefer digitals. Though weight, dimensions & portability are also valid reasons.

I know that in Canada and USA, big houses and lots of space are the norm.

But across the pond, it's not just space: it's living in less-than-fully-soundproof apartments. That is, neighbours. Elderly retired people are the ones owning houses now (some still with their pianos.....); others are living in apartments or semi-detached houses (i.e. with just a wall separating one house from another).

That is the only reason why I can't have an acoustic in my apartment (flat). I have enough space, and cost isn't an issue, but I'm surrounded by neighbors. The only time I can play my piano is when I'm not at work - which is also the time when my neighbors are home.

When I was a student, I had to use the pianos in the practice rooms in the high school (where I was a boarder), and after that, in the Music Department of the university. I used to rush there after school or lectures to try to get the room with my favourite piano, before other students got there.

It would make no sense to buy a piano if I couldn't even play it properly (i.e. with the right dynamics, not at a constant pianissimo) at any decent time, let alone at the time of my choosing, which was why I went for a digital all those years ago.

Now I'm wondering how much I've also saved in maintenance & tuning costs etc (compared to an acoustic) over the eight years I've had it. I've not spent a penny on my digital since I bought it, and it still looks and plays like new.

OK, I did appropriate an old bedsheet to use as a drape over it, to protect it from dust when I'm not playing it........... grin




Quote
But are digital pianos adequate enough to replace acoustic pianos in terms of sound and feel? I think the mid to higher end models are indeed adequate enough.

Not once have I felt my digital lacking in any way - at least, when I'm playing it. (Though I still enjoy playing the acoustic grands in the showrooms whenever I'm downtown). OK, it doesn't look anything like a real piano, but looks aren't everything, as a sage would say......

When I was a student and using the best practice pianos whenever I could, there were lots of times when I felt the action wasn't totally even, or some notes were slightly out of tune (there were some heavy hitters among the students.......including me wink ) - even though all the pianos were tuned every six months -, or there was an annoying buzzing sound from inside the piano that I couldn't get rid of.

No longer do I have to put up with that thumb.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2788485
12/06/18 07:11 PM
12/06/18 07:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,909
G
Gombessa Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline OP
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You make a lot of good points about the advantages of digital, bennevis, I'm sure it strikes a chord with a lot of the readers of this forum.

However, I have to admit that not a day goes by that I don't entertain the thought of springing for an acoustic grand (I probably will eventually, but it'll be a few years out). As nice as my digitals are, there's something about playing the real thing that just gets my heart going every time. One of these days I'll be fortunate enough to be in the one of ~3000+ households.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2788527
12/06/18 10:05 PM
12/06/18 10:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 132
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redfish1901 Offline
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by Gombessa
As nice as my digitals are, there's something about playing the real thing that just gets my heart going every time.


+1


Currently working on: Chopin Nocturne 48 / 2
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2788529
12/06/18 10:19 PM
12/06/18 10:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,997
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
7000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,997
Raleigh, North Carolina
Yes, a digital piano will never ever be the equal of an acoustic.
Originally Posted by Gombessa
... there's something about playing the real thing that just gets my heart going every time.

Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2789067
12/08/18 02:12 PM
12/08/18 02:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 62
Ontario, Canada
SilentQ Offline
Full Member
SilentQ  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 62
Ontario, Canada
Mac,

This is completely correct. The main reason is, even if you got with a top of the line Roland and spend over $7000, an acoustic has over 200 strings, each string is a very long speaker with a sound board as the amplifier. The sound resonates between the strings causing true over tones.

With digital, you have 2-12 speakers. They much simulate the sound of multiple notes instead of 1-3 speakers for each note being melded into one by the sound board. Then causing others speakers to resonate at their frequency to add depth.

Still, some digitals mimic this damn well. However, without the kinetic and pressure forces and hundreds of speakers, something will always be missing.

Q


Q
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2789071
12/08/18 02:22 PM
12/08/18 02:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,824
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,824
Originally Posted by Gombessa
However, I have to admit that not a day goes by that I don't entertain the thought of springing for an acoustic grand (I probably will eventually, but it'll be a few years out). As nice as my digitals are, there's something about playing the real thing that just gets my heart going every time. One of these days I'll be fortunate enough to be in the one of ~3000+ households.

Besides the music store that I visited two weeks ago, my only experience with an acoustic piano has been as the audience at concerts and listening to recordings. However, since I can't dream to make music like professionals, the lack of personal experience with an acoustic piano makes the idea of an acoustic piano a bit abstract. You can't miss what you've never had. smile This may be how the acoustic piano will finally die out. More people will be like me (w/o any acoustic piano experience) than like you (yearning for an acoustic piano).


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2789073
12/08/18 02:26 PM
12/08/18 02:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,909
G
Gombessa Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
Gombessa  Offline OP
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G

Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,909
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
This may be how the acoustic piano will finally die out. More people will be like me (w/o any acoustic piano experience) than like you (yearning for an acoustic piano).


While this saddens me, I see the same situation play out here, on Reddit, and in real life day in and day out. I fear that you may be right (though the lifetime of acoustic grands are such that neither I nor my children will have to worry about the consequences here).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: SilentQ] #2789082
12/08/18 02:46 PM
12/08/18 02:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,599
B
bennevis Offline
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,599
Originally Posted by SilentQ
Mac,

This is completely correct. The main reason is, even if you got with a top of the line Roland and spend over $7000, an acoustic has over 200 strings, each string is a very long speaker with a sound board as the amplifier. The sound resonates between the strings causing true over tones.


If you can practice at home on a digital like you can on an acoustic - i.e. at a similar volume with no restriction, you'd go for an acoustic every time, assuming you can afford it. Unless you're after the bells & whistles, why would anyone prefer a digital?

Though I suspect that if you have a good digital with good speakers, and you put the volume control up to the same volume as you'd get on an acoustic, you'd get quite a decent sound experience (if not necessarily the playing experience). The vast majority of people playing on digitals play them at a completely unrealistic low volume (which mean that any resonances disappear into the ether), and many are shocked at how loud an acoustic is in the flesh (not on YT recordings) when they get to try one out.......


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Who still has a piano? [Re: Gombessa] #2789083
12/08/18 02:51 PM
12/08/18 02:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,599
B
bennevis Offline
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,599
As an aside, I just came across this post - recordings made on the V-Piano by a PW member:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2788939/christmas-tunes.html#Post2788939


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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