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Are people who go through abrsm required to learn all these pieces? Someone doing ABRSM or who has done it should answer, but as I recall, for each of the 8 grades, it is in general, three pieces, scales and arpeggios, sight-reading, and aural tests. Something like that. That's right - and, having been an examiner, I feel the grades are an inefficient way to assess overall musical ability and standard. Not to mention a mind-numbing experience for some people, who slog away at the same three pieces for months or more, only playing those pieces, often losing enthusiasm, often with a teacher who is simply fixated on getting exam passes. For adults, unless the adult is busting to be examined, they can often lead to a stress that takes away the joy of music making. For children, they can cause emotional trauma and also put some kids off music for life. They do, of course, have their use in some circumstances and serve a purpose. But it's all a terribly false scenario. It's a shame so many people latch onto the grade system like it's a religion - proselytising about how wonderful it is. It really isn't. And most AB examiners do not even play most of the instruments they are examining. That, in itself, should be of concern.
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I second the idea that the OP should mostly pick pieces that catches him or her, interesting pieces can be found at any level of difficulty.
And I also find the goal of reaching some 'grade' unnecessary and straining for an adult learner. The goals IMO should be stated in terms of one's favourite pieces.
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As someone who did no grades, no ABRSM exams, training etc. I haven't been 'through the mill' but our children have (I wasn't trying to be cruel...) and so did a close relative (oh, and other people I know etc. ). My opinion judging by results is that they are a good thing. As an adult one is 'more in control' of one's own destiny and in choosing to do the training / exams marching to one's own drum. It isn't a case of being forced to do it, it is a conscious decision. I have noticed a lot of people go back to higher education in later life and do well - pressures are different, as I say, and goals possibly more clearly understood. My own efforts improved when I started buying books of graded ABRSM pieces and working through them so that I could pick up missing skills, see just where I was and more importantly correct ingrained errors (mostly fingering - getting that comfortable makes a lot of difference). In hindsight I wish I had done them (not possible at the time etc.) both for gaining the skills and for the measuring (confidence that the skills really exist). No, I don't like exams, don't like slogging through pieces that I don't like and so on, but.... This was before the internet, though, and there seems to be a lot of helpful information there, including courses, and I am picking up a lot of useful information (permanent beginner!) from there, but I would still like to have had the solid grounding from going through the course. The OP has elected to go through the course, and is finding it tough going. That, with limited time and a bad back is understandable. Back problem must be sorted, because apart from anything else it will make practice painful and unpleasant, and enjoyable music should be included in the practice - if necessary at the expense of set pieces. A lot of finger-strengthening exercises can be done drumming fingers on the table / desk or what have you so some of them can make way for more playing more enjoyable music.
regards Pete
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Many good suggestions above...
I have studied about 7 years as an adult and I have had the same teacher for about 6 years. I have had similar feelings occasionally, mostly in the first 3-4 years. I also have had physical difficulties with playing the piano (I have scoliosis among other things).
Things that helped: - If I felt stuck and not motivated, I often switched pieces to awoke my interest in practice again. If something isn't finished, it isn't the end of the world, you still learn something from them all. - When I felt practice after work was too much, I started to practice in the morning. And I was never a morning person, but still the mind is fresher before work and progress was noticeable. And minutes a day really doesn't matter, sometimes 15 minutes can be really productive and an hour isn't if you cannot focus on the right things. - I gradually learned to accept "slower" months when nothing much happened, things tend to go up and down. - I started physiotherapy and also recently regular exercise and stopped sitting so much at the computer (I stand more now at work). Gradually I have been able to improve my posture and got rid of most of my bad tensions. - I spent also time with music that I do not study with my teacher to keep my interest in the piano repertoire up. - This forum is also helpful in motivating us, because you realize there are other adult piano students who keep at it even if they will never necessarily become performers or progress fast. And do look at our ABF recitals, it's a great concept.
It's difficult to foresee future, but certainly I now feel I have gained so much into my life from the piano studies that continuing when times were rough was worth it. Even if I never practiced seriously again, there's so much I can do with music I could not do before.
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As someone who did no grades, no ABRSM exams, training etc. I haven't been 'through the mill' but our children have (I wasn't trying to be cruel...) and so did a close relative (oh, and other people I know etc. ). My opinion judging by results is that they are a good thing. As an adult one is 'more in control' of one's own destiny and in choosing to do the training / exams marching to one's own drum. It isn't a case of being forced to do it, it is a conscious decision. I have noticed a lot of people go back to higher education in later life and do well - pressures are different, as I say, and goals possibly more clearly understood. My own efforts improved when I started buying books of graded ABRSM pieces and working through them so that I could pick up missing skills, see just where I was and more importantly correct ingrained errors (mostly fingering - getting that comfortable makes a lot of difference). In hindsight I wish I had done them (not possible at the time etc.) both for gaining the skills and for the measuring (confidence that the skills really exist). Having been brought up on ABRSM myself, I grew up thinking that anyone who is learning a musical instrument (and therefore having lessons) did exams - after all, even in my home country (which isn't English-speaking), everyone I knew did them. Everyone that is, apart from someone I encountered when I was staying with my uncle, who visited us and proceeded to play La Paloma on the piano, with (what looked like) very awkward fingerings and a LH which didn't match the RH tune, either in harmony or in timing. My uncle told me he'd taught himself to play by ear, purely for his own pleasure. We never knew whether he realized that his hands didn't match. From that, I presumed (as a kid) that if you were serious about learning to play, you had a teacher, and followed a piano syllabus and did the exams. In other words, music was also an education. More fun than math (unless understanding why E=mv2 ÷ 2 but also E=mc2 floats your boat ), but an education nevertheless, and you learnt it properly. And you put in the time to practice. And you also have fun doing it, because you have the skills to play good music well, whereas those who can't play are stuck with being passive listeners. That was why I loved staying at my uncle's for the holidays, because I could play duets with his kids, all of whom played (- better than me, but I was more adept at bluffing my way around the notes ). It never occurred to me that music was something to be endured (like history, for example) even though I also had to work at it, especially for the annual grade exams; but I knew that without them, I'd never have practiced the things (technical stuff especially) that wasn't immediately gratifying - and without the technique I'd developed with scales & arpeggios etc, I wouldn't have been able to play lovely stuff like Mozart's K545 (which I still play to this day). As I became more advanced, I became more aware of how relevant every aspect of ABRSM grade requirements was: nothing was superfluous to requirements for a classical pianist (I cannot speak for jazzers etc). Aural skills? - that was why I could sight-sing (along with some 30 other kids) and join the school choir and sing Jesu, meine Freude as well as Once in Royal David's Cityl in 4-part harmony. And conduct the choir myself when our choirmaster had to take the place of our organ scholar during a rehearsal, because he was ill. Sight-reading skills? - that was why I could 'jam' with friends, as well as sight-read through Mozart and Beethoven violin sonatas together. Not to mention picking up a music score I'd never seen before and just playing it to see what it sounded like. And the combination of aural and technical skills meant that I could play by ear - and play fast & loose with pop tunes, throwing in flourishes and 'passagework' on a whim to turn them into quasi-classical pieces . How could one have fun like that with history, for example? Reciting facts & figures to a snoring audience? (And the world never learns from history - we just keep making the same mistakes over & over & over.......) Incidentally, on the subject of adults doing grade exams, I've been surprised by some of the adult re-learners I've met over the years, who decided to take up the piano again after their children had grown up and flown the nest. Instead of just playing favorite old pieces and maybe accompany a singalong at Christmas etc, they were intent on picking up where they left off in their ABRSM grade exams when they were kids, and getting to grade 8 (and therefore also having lessons in order to achieve their goals). Some of those who'd already achieved grade 8 when they were young wanted to go on to do a diploma. They weren't satisfied with just playing what they could play: they wanted to push themselves to see how far they could go, now that they had the motivation to achieve, which they didn't have when they were younger (when they were probably nagged by their parent to practice daily). If they didn't enjoy doing the exams when they were young (and I cannot say I did either, though I did appreciate their benefits: I wouldn't have become the pianist I am today without them), they certainly felt the exam requirements benefited them in terms of acquiring a comprehensive set of musical & technical skills that enabled them to enjoy music in the way they wanted. What about an adult beginner wanting to do grade exams? There was a time some years ago when I contemplated taking up the cello (and had a trial lesson on it), and I'd almost certainly want to do the ABRSM exams if I did go on. Not just for my own satisfaction (that an old dog can learn new tricks and prove that in an internationally recognized graded system), but also to ensure that my teacher doesn't take short cuts and miss out stuff ('he's old, he doesn't really need to learn how to play that properly......') just so I could cut to the chase and play 'proper tunes' (however badly)..... But for others, as with everything, it all depends on what you're seeking to achieve.....
If music be the food of love, play on!
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Bennevis - interesting to hear your experiences - very positive and, sadly, different from mine! I hope that the OP is still with us and, although there are a lot of comments, is able to pick out enough information to make a decision on which way to go - and that we haven't put her / him of with too many at times conflicting views.
Last edited by petebfrance; 12/05/18 12:22 PM.
regards Pete
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As someone who did no grades, no ABRSM exams, training etc. I haven't been 'through the mill' but our children have (I wasn't trying to be cruel...) and so did a close relative (oh, and other people I know etc. ). My opinion judging by results is that they are a good thing. As an adult one is 'more in control' of one's own destiny and in choosing to do the training / exams marching to one's own drum. It isn't a case of being forced to do it, it is a conscious decision. I have noticed a lot of people go back to higher education in later life and do well - pressures are different, as I say, and goals possibly more clearly understood. My own efforts improved when I started buying books of graded ABRSM pieces and working through them so that I could pick up missing skills, see just where I was and more importantly correct ingrained errors (mostly fingering - getting that comfortable makes a lot of difference). In hindsight I wish I had done them (not possible at the time etc.) both for gaining the skills and for the measuring (confidence that the skills really exist). Having been brought up on ABRSM myself, I grew up thinking that anyone who is learning a musical instrument (and therefore having lessons) did exams - after all, even in my home country (which isn't English-speaking), everyone I knew did them. Everyone that is, apart from someone I encountered when I was staying with my uncle, who visited us and proceeded to play La Paloma on the piano, with (what looked like) very awkward fingerings and a LH which didn't match the RH tune, either in harmony or in timing. My uncle told me he'd taught himself to play by ear, purely for his own pleasure. We never knew whether he realized that his hands didn't match.... It never occurred to me that music was something to be endured (like history, for example) even though I also had to work at it, especially for the annual grade exams; but I knew that without them, I'd never have practiced the things (technical stuff especially) that wasn't immediately gratifying - and without the technique I'd developed with scales & arpeggios etc, I wouldn't have been able to play lovely stuff like Mozart's K545 (which I still play to this day). As I became more advanced, I became more aware of how relevant every aspect of ABRSM grade requirements was: nothing was superfluous to requirements for a classical pianist (I cannot speak for jazzers etc). Aural skills? - that was why I could sight-sing (along with some 30 other kids) and join the school choir and sing Jesu, meine Freude as well as Once in Royal David's Cityl in 4-part harmony. And conduct the choir myself when our choirmaster had to take the place of our organ scholar during a rehearsal, because he was ill. Sight-reading skills? - that was why I could 'jam' with friends, as well as sight-read through Mozart and Beethoven violin sonatas together. Not to mention picking up a music score I'd never seen before and just playing it to see what it sounded like. And the combination of aural and technical skills meant that I could play by ear - and play fast & loose with pop tunes, throwing in flourishes and 'passagework' on a whim to turn them into quasi-classical pieces . Incidentally, on the subject of adults doing grade exams, I've been surprised by some of the adult re-learners I've met over the years, who decided to take up the piano again after their children had grown up and flown the nest. Instead of just playing favorite old pieces and maybe accompany a singalong at Christmas etc, they were intent on picking up where they left off in their ABRSM grade exams when they were kids, and getting to grade 8 (and therefore also having lessons in order to achieve their goals). Some of those who'd already achieved grade 8 when they were young wanted to go on to do a diploma. They weren't satisfied with just playing what they could play: they wanted to push themselves to see how far they could go, now that they had the motivation to achieve, which they didn't have when they were younger (when they were probably nagged by their parent to practice daily). If they didn't enjoy doing the exams when they were young (and I cannot say I did either, though I did appreciate their benefits: I wouldn't have become the pianist I am today without them), they certainly felt the exam requirements benefited them in terms of acquiring a comprehensive set of musical & technical skills that enabled them to enjoy music in the way they wanted. What about an adult beginner wanting to do grade exams? There was a time some years ago when I contemplated taking up the cello (and had a trial lesson on it), and I'd almost certainly want to do the ABRSM exams if I did go on. Not just for my own satisfaction (that an old dog can learn new tricks and prove that in an internationally recognized graded system), but also to ensure that my teacher doesn't take short cuts and miss out stuff ('he's old, he doesn't really need to learn how to play that properly......') just so I could cut to the chase and play 'proper tunes' (however badly)..... But for others, as with everything, it all depends on what you're seeking to achieve..... There are several possible scenarios: 1. No teacher, no exams 2. No teacher, yes exams 3. Yes teacher, no exams 4. Yes teacher, yes exams A large proportion of ABF participants fall under no. 1, self-taught. My impression is that few follow no. 2. For nos. 3 and 4, I don't have a clear feeling on how those are divided. I do believe one can play to a high standard under both scenarios. Yes, you need a good teacher for both. Bennevis, you seem like a pretty competitive person (my impression from your posts; I've never met you in person--I don't think ) and for you taking the grade exams is your 'marker' for achievement. For others (like me), I'm happy to audit, i.e., not take exams. I don't know if my teacher went through grade exams (I've never asked), but she does have a DMA in performance and does perform (and judge) frequently in the region, and yes, she does teach to a high standard. My point: one's goal should be to play well, to have the skills and techniques and knowledge of, and exposure to. pieces from many eras and composers. Some people need the carrot and stick and reward of exams, others don't. Playing well can be achieved via both routes.
Yamaha C3X In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
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There are several possible scenarios:
1. No teacher, no exams 2. No teacher, yes exams 3. Yes teacher, no exams 4. Yes teacher, yes exams
A large proportion of ABF participants fall under no. 1, self-taught. My impression is that few follow no. 2. For nos. 3 and 4, I don't have a clear feeling on how those are divided. See this. Less than half of ABF respondents fall into categories 1 & 2. Only 14.5% fall into categories 2 & 4. Maybe for the 2019 survey, we should ask Sam S to divide it up into your 4 categories so we can distinguish category 2 from 4.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Bennevis, you seem like a pretty competitive person (my impression from your posts; I've never met you in person--I don't think ) and for you taking the grade exams is your 'marker' for achievement. It would be (partly) if I did decide to learn a new instrument now, and take exams on it. (Though it wasn't in the least when I was actually taking them as a student - it was just something that everyone did - and in my case, I did actually have to show my parents a new certificate every year to be able to continue lessons.) The irony is that after joining PW, and having read posts here in ABF and in the Piano Teachers Forum, it makes me more likely to take exams because I realize how often adult students get short shrift from their teachers if they want to learn a musical instrument from the basics up without 'cutting to the chase' (i.e. go straight into playing 'adult music' before they have the skills to do it properly). Of course, it helps that I already know what to expect, and music teachers in the UK have all been through the system themselves and/or know all about it, and their child students are certainly all doing the exams. However, for the only other musical instrument I can play (guitar), I have never felt the need for lessons, much less ABRSM exams, because I have no aspirations to play classical guitar to a decent standard (because the classical rep for it is miniscule). I'm content just to strum the guitar to accompany myself and friends singing Blowin' in the Wind around the campfire......
If music be the food of love, play on!
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I'm content just to strum the guitar to accompany myself and friends singing Blowin' in the Wind around the campfire...... That's a pretty low standard, my friend. BitW has what, 3 chords? I don't even play the guitar and I could probably figure it out. And since everyone knows the melody (even ones such as myself who only listen to classical and opera), you don't have to play any melody do you? Just hit those chords... Easy street.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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I'm content just to strum the guitar to accompany myself and friends singing Blowin' in the Wind around the campfire...... That's a pretty low standard, my friend. BitW has what, 3 chords? I don't even play the guitar and I could probably figure it out. And since everyone knows the melody (even ones such as myself who only listen to classical and opera), you don't have to play any melody do you? Just hit those chords... Easy street. I did once try to learn & play Asturias on the guitar, and managed it at something like 1/8 speed, but then I thought: why bother? It was originally written for the piano, and I can easily sight-read it (at tempo) on the piano : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inBKFMB-yPghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8BQVhOv5AFar better just to strum and accompany stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vrEljMfXYo (slightly more than 3 chords)
If music be the food of love, play on!
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bennevis, I think your life would make a very enjoyable movie!
Ralph
Kawai VPC1 Garritan CFX Pianist since April, 2015
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bennevis, I think your life would make a very enjoyable movie! Did I tell of the occasion when the little group I was with (who sang Bob Dylan and John Denver around the camp fire to keep the grizzlies at bay in Alaska) returned from AK to WA via the Inside Passage on the Skagway - Bellingham ferry ship? We pitched our tents on the deck (really!) and entertained the other passengers in the evenings by singing Bridge Over Troubled Water and Imagine (etc) in the bar, with me playing the upright piano and our leader playing the electric guitar. We weren't at all bad.......
If music be the food of love, play on!
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Let your love for the piano make your decision whether to quit or not. I’m not great, probably not every very good, but my love for the piano transcends that. I will never quit.
Always working to improve "Chopsticks". I'll never give up on it.
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Did the OP quit or persevere after all? This is an old(er) thread-bumped for any updates.
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The OP has only 2 posts - the original one opening this thread, and another one thanking everyone for their input. They haven't been heard from since. I'm wondering what made you curious and bring up this thread nearly a year later?
Steinway A3 Boston 118 PE YouTubeWorking OnChopin Nocturne E min Bach Inventions "You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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I'm wondering what made you curious and bring up this thread nearly a year later? Guessing it was my fault.
across the stone, deathless piano performances "Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Steinway A3 Boston 118 PE YouTubeWorking OnChopin Nocturne E min Bach Inventions "You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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I am not alone wow. I've read this thread from the start.
I have been sitting here contemplating quitting the piano all together.
After my recent performance debacle that was all I could think of.
And after serious reflection, one of the components of my epic failure was hearing my piano teacher talking behind me (we were in a sanctuary, and it really messed with my head as there is no talking in church).
But I picked myself up, played for my neighbors and family and we had a blast! I've been researching other instructors in my area. I haven't really ever felt "right" with this teacher.
I had a hard time seeing this...blame my need to being a "dutiful student" and worrying more about pleasing her than pleasing myself.
Coming to this decision has been difficult. To the op: we both need to dig our heels in. We are worth it! Music is everything!
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Yup! I thought it was ironic that the OP only had 2 posts on that topic, so maybe he did quit? who knows! But the reason I revived the thread is because I am also going through a slump phase right now where my motivation to play and practice is at an all time low. So reading some of those threads has been helpful. For me, my personal goals when I started up lessons again as an adult was to learn more complex repertoire. I wanted to play Brahms and Rachmaninov. Now I have learned at least 1 piece from those composers, I am now workin on Schumann pieces, and next stop is some of the more complex Chopin Nocturnes and maybe the Ballades...but lately I am feeling discouraged with the tediousness of practicing. It is feeling more and more like a "chore" instead of a "fun hobby". I may have to consider taking a break but I am afraid of losing my current "groove" I have now w/ weekly lessons (which forces me to practice on my "homework assignment"..When it starts to feel boring, I notice I mentally "check out" of playing well when I practice and the cycle just gets reinforced (play something hard, it sounds bad, I know it sounds bad, so I stop playing it..and then I notice I am not progressing..) Sigh.
Last edited by AssociateX; 11/12/19 01:43 AM.
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