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Hello,

I recently made a reddit thread asking for advice on buying my 1st digital piano ( https://old.reddit.com/r/piano/comments/a2i9yp/buying_a_digital_piano_and_equipment/ )

From what I have researched in the last few days the best options that I have in my price range (around 3500 euros) are the Roland LX 706, the Kawai C-98 and the Yamaha CLP685. There are a few models from casio that I stumble upon sometimes, but I have the feeling that these brands are better (maybe its their marketing).

I am visiting a store on wednesay and wanted to know if I should have an eye on anything else. For now I think I will compare the feeling of the pianos to each other. But maybe I have overseens something. Also, are there pianist who already played each of the instruments and can recommend one. In terms of action and also sound ?

I already heared that the money on the LX708 is not worth it compared to the 706. I am curious to get a larger opinionrange.

I am pretty impressed by the Roland LX 706, but that may be marketing. Tho I only read good things about the PCH-50 Keyboard and the LX 706 has an improved keyboard.


My current piano is an upright piano invented back in the 19th century with a broken frame and broken pedals, that cannot be tuned right anymore etc. etc.

I am not that great of a pianist and only play as a hobby for a few years. So basically anything might be an upgrade to my current piano.

I already explained a lot of things in the reddit thread, so I wont double unnessecarry information here.

Thanks in advance

Kindest Regards

Noah

For discussion on the LX700 series, see this thread.

Hello Noah, welcome to the forum.

I think the models you have listed represent the best (i.e. most realistic keyboard touch and sound) options currently available.

As recommended in the reddit thread, it's important to play-test each instrument in person before making a decision. Sometimes it's also useful to return to the shop on more than one occasion, in order to be sure that the instrument you're purchasing is the most suitable option for you. In additional to playing the various digital pianos available, I would also recommend playing a selection of grand pianos. However, please bear in mind that there is no "one tone" or "one touch", as this will vary depending on the manufacturer and model.



I believe this ultimately depends on the needs of the individual. Some customers simply wish to buy the best available model in the line-up, regardless of whether the additional features are useful or important to that person. I personally prefer the taller appearance and slow-fall fallboard of the LX708, however others on reddit (and in this thread?) suggested that these are not important features (to them). Again, this is why it's important to play-test all models for yourself, rather than relying too heavily on the opinions of folks online.

One thing to add, however - and something that I often mention - is that the digital piano market is extremely competitive, with all of the major manufacturers producing very good instruments. I honestly don't believe it's possible to buy a poor quality digital piano in 2018 - it simply comes down to which model an individual enjoys playing the most.

Best of luck with your search!

Kind regards,
James
x

Yep it's marketing, Casio GP is really nice. You should try all of those pianos personaly if you can, most important thing about chosing a piano is to try it out yourself.

Intersting pricing. Here in Russia even LX708 is cheaper than CA98 and CLP-685, not to mention LX706. Of course, I'd buy LX 708, cause it.s new, tough and I'd save some money

I haven't played LX-700 series instruments yet. But I have played both CA-98 and CLP-685. CA-98 has a lot better action IMHO - I personally disliked CLP-685 action to the point - very initial touch-weight-heavy and unnatural. However, I enjoyed CLP-685 CFX sound a lot more than CA-98 Kawai samples - but that is a personal preference of tone

Good luck in your search!.

Osho

Exactly the same for me

Osho & Nordomus, I would love to hear your impressions and comparisons after you've had a chance to try the LX706/8 and let us know how you think Roland's new Hybrid Grand Keyboard action compares to the CA-98's GFII action.

Sure I will, remind me if I forget

Today I was able to play the:

Yamaha CLP 685 and 645
Roland HP605/3
Kawai CA98/78
Casio GP500

(All with Headphones, so I cannot tell whick speakers are better. For example the Kawai CA98/78 are basically the same? But speakers are different?) is there a difference ? If not, I dont know why I would chose the CA 98 over the CA78.
In a big music Store (Music Store Cologne)

Unfortunately they don‘t have the new Roland LX700 Series and it doesn‘t deliver no sooner February:( pretty sad. I basically wasn’t able to play the LX 706, which was my favorite by research.

I played for about 3-4 hours. These are my impressions:

Keyboard Action:

I didn’t like the Yamaha keyboard. It was really heavy. It was the first one that I tried (played around 30 Minutes, maybe longer). After trying the Kawai CA98 right after the Yamaha 685 it basically felt like I was pressing down feathers. Took really long to get used to it. Changing back and forth between both pianos, I disliked the keyboard of the Yamaha. Wasn’t pleasant to play. So this one is basically out of competition due to personal preference.

The Roland HP 605 uses the PHA-50 Keyboard, and this one is indeed so good. Once I pitched the Yamaha Keyboard and went back and forth between Kawai and Roland I basically wasn’t able to decalre a clear winner as for Keyboard action.

Played Casio for about 5 Minutes and pitched it. Pressing the white Keys down at the end when grabbing a chord where your fingering needs to ( for example: right hand playing f#sharp 1(thumb) b (3) d(5) )
Was so unenjoyable. Didnt need further testing. And the sound wasnt that big of a differenxe between Yamaha and Kawai.

Sound(Headphones):

The Yamaha and Kawai sounded pretty similar to me (it’s not like I am a great pianist or something). I don’t the best ear if it comes to seperating two different grand pianos from each other. I liked the Kawai one a little bit more when playing the bass. Just felt „fuller“ for me. But Headphones were different ones and I don’t have my own pair yet (couldn’t take headphones out and use the same ones on a different piano)
The Kawai in general had a real „realisic“ sound. I could clearly hear the hammertones/fallback/etc.( whatever these effects are called) when I docused on it. Couldn’t sense these on the Yamaha CLP685. (If they both have similar possibilities, maybe I am either an idiot or the options were messed up).

Now the Rolands. I am not home yet so I didn’t investigate further but the PH605 was in „concert grand“ mode. Horrible. I completely disliked it. The PH603 was in Grand Piano mode. This one actually was way different from Kawai and Yamaha. I couldt get the same sound on the PH605. Dont know why. Maybe its a different series? Maybe the option menu was not my thing. Regardless of that. HP603 kept Roland in the game for me.

If you have any questions you can ask me .

I flr myself have more questions than before after trying out these instruments.

I basically cannot decide between the Kawai CA98 and the Roland LX 706. Because I didt play the 706 yet, and if it has a huge improvement in terms of Keyboard as of sound, I can imagine that it beats the Kawai CA 98.

I hope that I can find a store that has the LX706. I dont want to wait until February to have the chance to play it

Since you asked: The difference between the CA98 and CA78 is indeed the speaker system. Only the CA98 has the soundboard speaker, plus some conventional speakers. The CA78 has only conventional speakers, in a different configuration. Because of the soundboard, the CA98 sounds different and comes as a preassembled single unit that cannot be taken apart. The CA78 comes in two pieces.
With the previous generation (the CA97 and CA67 pair) there was also a minor difference in the number of voices. The CA67 had a few less, but only ones that were relatively uninteresting anyway. I don't know if there's such a difference between the CA98 and CA78 too. If there is, it's probably negligible too.

I would also be interested in knowing if there are any differences other than speakers vs soundboard between the CA98 and CA78. Because I play 95% of the time with headphones, I could care less about speakers myself, but fewer voices, might be something I would consider.

When I compared them on their website this morning before going there, I coudnt find any differences. I also think that in your situation it doenst make much sense to buy the CA98 compared to the CA78. For me they were basically identical.

Look here for the CA78 specs toward the bottom of the page. http://kawaius.com/product/ca78/

The CA78 - Pianist mode: 10 rendering characters
Sound mode: 66 voices

Look here for the CA78 specs toward the bottom of the page. http://kawaius.com/product/ca98/
The CA98 - Pianist Mode: 10 Rendering Characters
Sound Mode: 88 Voices

In a nut shell more voices in the CA98 and Onkyo speaker system with more Watts of power. Tim the tool man would be proud

Remember the CA98 comes like an upright piano in one assembled box. If you have tight corners or have to go up a flight of stairs good luck. If mainly playing with headphones I think the CA78 is a better deal.

I'm down to Yamaha CLP645, Roland LX706 or the CA78 myself. I might even settle on the HP605 if I get a deal I can't pass up.

I just checked the Kawai website and see the price difference there is 1,400 USD between the the CA78 and C98. Even if one cared about speaker sound, one could buy both decent speakers and a VST handling more than 66 voices for less than $1400.

So my revised list of DPs to personally consider is now whittled down to: Kawai VPC1, Kawai MP11SE, Roland LX706, Kawai CA78, Kawai Novus NV10. I'd love to be able to consider the Ravenworks Digital VPC1, but I see no way of practically testing it, and there is no way I am buying my next piano without personally testing it (I bought my current FP30 that way, and the FP30 will be the last piano I buy sight unseen LOL)

this review from before the CA78/98 was released on 5 October last year, is probably still worth looking at as the CA97 and CA98 have the same keyboard action, as far as I understand it. Also, I found this review a while back that includes a thorough comparison by a piano teacher between the PHA50 and Grand Feel II actions (GFII won).

The key action on both, Kawai, aswell as Roland is better than the Key action of Yamahas CLP685. I played the CLP645 for a really short duration, but I didnt like it initially. Is there a big difference between the Key action of Yamaha CLP645 and CLP685 ? If I was on a low budget, I can imagine to go for the CLP 645, if the weight of the keys is a little bit lighter. But since I am not, I am highly favorising Roland and Kawai, since their Key action is just better in my opinion ( all of these are my subjective impressions, just wanted to make it clear that there is not "better" in this area as it is all preference).

Were you able to play the LX706 ? I think I have to rely on other peoplkes opinions regarding the sound and the key action, as I only played the old PHA 50 Keyboard.


Just a site note. What is the difference between all the Roland models ? I have the feeling that the difference between HP605 and LX17 for example is almost nothing. LX 705 is basically LX605 with the new sound engine. Just the LX 706 seems like a really "new" and "innovative" model. But the price difference between Roland HP605 and LX 706 is sooooo huge. Is the new LX 700 Series really this much better in terms of sound ? Justifying 1200 Euros to pay on top for it ?

(I know that there a many minor differences between the pianos, but these are all so irelevant (in my opinion). Maybe I am overlooking something huge here.)

I agree with you on this:
This part is bizarre:In other words, a low-cost keyboard with no sound, or a couple of good midrange units, or a top-end piano. How is that a "whittled down" list?

If these were automobiles, an equivalent list might be a Toyota, a Mercedes, or a Ferrari.
Decisions ... decisions.

That's because I only really care about a few factors. For one, I don't care about sound (much) nor do I care about cabinet or color. I am quite accustomed to Pianoteq+SteingraeberE272 via headphones with my FP30 which had native sound not to my liking (SuperNATURAL modeling). So I could continue along those lines with an external VST. This basically says that VPC1 is as "almost" good as LX708 from a sound perspective. (Well, value less is not "no value", so I am exaggerating a bit here.) I am also not as price sensitive, but I am value sensitive, meaning that I become irritated when I think I've paid far more than I should for something. (Years ago, I discovered my wife bought a $6K pair of shoes because she was feeling a bit depressed, and I am irritated about this until today, although I never mention it to her, since no $6000 pair of shoes is "good value!") So I will pay for the NV10 if I think it offers good value. But if I think NV10 is over priced or more than I (as a person learning piano for 10 months only so far) need, then I wouldn't want to get it. BTW, that is indeed what I am starting to think- that the NV10 is not something I would fully appreciate at my level of piano development and by the time I might appreciate it, there will be something better I should just get at that time.

That said, I am basically comparing the following keyboard actions: Kawai RM3 Grand II (Kawai VPC1), Ravenworks Digital's "blueprinted" RM3 Grand II (Ravenworks Digital VPC1), Kawai Grand Feel (MP11SE), Roland Hybrid Grand Keyboard (Roland LX706), Kawai Grand Feel II (Kawai CA78), and Kawai Millennium III Hybrid Grand (Kawai Novus NV10). That's how I am viewing it. I am not comparing the Kawai VPC1 vs an Kawai Novus NV10. I am comparing Kawai RM3 Grand II vs. Kawai Millennium III Hybrid Grand. (Now, in this, I have not tried yet either, but I've heard that the latter wins by alot - but see my earlier remark about value and whether I am "ready" for a MIIIHG.)

And besides, all of my options, well except for the NV10, are less than a $6000 pair of shoes. 0.5 LOL

I don't know, I am in the same mental whiplash situation that Tyrone is. I will spend most of my time playing through headphones so I have to contend with the is it worth it to go from the CA78 -> CA98 or LX706->LX708. Then when I start thinking probably not and that maybe the CA78 or LX706 is the way to go I start going even further down the headphones only route and that MP11SE looks pretty good even though it would cost me more to travel to find one to try out than any savings from buying one of those. Then someone posts another video of the LX708 in polished ebony and I think, hmm... that really looks nice. And the process just goes on and on in an infinite loop.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that every other cycle the NU1X pops up because of the units I am looking at it is the only one I have been able to play so far and I really liked it.