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Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 #2787558
12/03/18 11:36 PM
12/03/18 11:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Atlanta, GA
P
PhilH930 Offline OP
Junior Member
PhilH930  Offline OP
Junior Member
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Atlanta, GA
While I dabbled in lessons at school and recreation as a young teen, I haven't played for 20 years. I've longed for a piano for almost 10 years, and for a whole host of reasons wasn't able to move forward. Now I have space in a house and time to learn to play the piano. I've done a lot of research, read every review, and tested all the below models (or had them demoed to me). Simply put, looking for some advice and guidance. For the below models, I know there are extensive threads on these forums also which I have browsed through also. Models in consideration are below, with my thoughts:

Yamaha CLP-645 ($3199 before tax)
- Key action feels nice, but firmer than the Kawai. Like the wood white keys, wish the blacks were wood also, although not sure what difference it would really make for me
- I prefer the sound of the CFX to SK-EX; perhaps that's the speakers more than the sample but just more pleasant to me
- Sound feels like its coming from more parts of the piano than the mesh grill on on the Kawai
- Build quality feels better. Might be nothing in it but just feels stronger
- Appearance - cabinet looks better, although in Atlanta no one can get my preferred color of dark walnut
- Much prefer the control panel - beauty is the simplicity

Kawai CA78 ($4130 before tax, plus extra 2% tax due to store location)
- Key action feels wonderful - full length keys had a different feeling. Although, at times they felt overly soft (although I have zero grand experience so I can't say I know what they should feel like)
- Fully wooden keys
- SK-EX doesn't sound as full to me. That may have been where I sampled, but it didn't sound as warm (which I've been told is not aligned with the grand models as Yamaha's are brighter?)
- Appearance - just looks different. The wood looks like Ikea furniture to me at times (no offense intended)
- LCD touchscreen display - concept is great, but I find it laggy and requiring a lot of precision. Also concerned when this breaks the instrument becomes nothing but a paperweight

I understand these aren't really competitors. It would be more appropriate to compare the CLP 675 to CA78, but read a lot of negative reviews on the action on the 675. I do get tempted by the 685 also, but think that might be overkill for my skills and needs. When I look at the above, I feel like the 645 punches above its weight. I plan to keep the piano upstairs in a media room, and prefer the boxed option that allows me to carry it upstairs (as opposed to the fully assembled CA98). I did also sample Roland 601/3/5. They're nice, but in a world of electric sounds, they certainly sounded more "produced" that the other models.

All the above aside, its been a fun process. I've enjoyed experience grand pianos at the same time and learned so much. It's nice to dream that one day I'll graduate to a grand, but the reality is I'll likely upgrade down the DP route for years to come.

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Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787583
12/04/18 01:27 AM
12/04/18 01:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 93
INDIA
G
Gandhi Offline
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Gandhi  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 93
INDIA
Hi Dear PhilH930...Welcome to PWF....

Pls check following Thread link which I Started 4 month back re Kawai CA 78 VS Yamaha 645 and ended up buying Kawai CA 78...

I am extreemly happy with both Key Action & Sound

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...-ca-78-vs-yamaha-clp645.html#Post2756637

All the best..

Gandhi

Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787594
12/04/18 03:12 AM
12/04/18 03:12 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 573
Bay Area CA
P
pwl Offline
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pwl  Offline
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 573
Bay Area CA
PhilH930 -

You've done what forum folks always advise - which is to try possible candidates yourself. So right off the bat, you're ahead of the game!

You've also determined your personal favorite from those pianos you've checked out - excellent!

Finally, regardlsess of personal preferences, I think everyone here would agree that the CLP-645 is a solid choice. Many prefer its action to the models above it. And . . . the 645 costs less than the Kawai you considered!

Congratulations - I think you've done it!

Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787601
12/04/18 04:05 AM
12/04/18 04:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 86
B
Beowulf Offline
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Beowulf  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 86
Just like you, I feel the build and the sound quality to be much better on the CLP645 than the CA78. I actually bought the CLP645 before I tested out the CA78 and thankfully I don't regret my decision. Personally, I think the plastic black keys on the 645 is not much of an issue. Before deciding on the 645, I actually thought about getting the 675 due to its superior speakers and slightly higher cabinet, but the key action really put me off too much. The CLP645 is pretty underrated, I would say.

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Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787619
12/04/18 06:24 AM
12/04/18 06:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,772
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
7000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,772
Raleigh, North Carolina
Regardless of which of these pianos you choose, please know that the prices you showed bear no relationship to what I would offer for them.
$3199 Yamaha CLP-645
$4130 Kawai CA78

Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: MacMacMac] #2787796
12/04/18 04:15 PM
12/04/18 04:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Atlanta, GA
P
PhilH930 Offline OP
Junior Member
PhilH930  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Regardless of which of these pianos you choose, please know that the prices you showed bear no relationship to what I would offer for them.
$3199 Yamaha CLP-645
$4130 Kawai CA78


What does that mean - you'd offer less? I've tried that and they tell me to pound sand. Issue is they aren't available online for me at a lower price, and only available in single brick and mortar stores. No harm in trying again though, but Kawai guy put my price up 3% due to credit card fee, which I flat out refuse to pay anywhere in life.

Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787809
12/04/18 05:17 PM
12/04/18 05:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 30
Omaha, Nebraska
K
Kougeru Offline
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Kougeru  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 30
Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted by PhilH930
. Issue is they aren't available online for me at a lower price, and only available in single brick and mortar stores. No harm in trying again though, but Kawai guy put my price up 3% due to credit card fee, which I flat out refuse to pay anywhere in life.


He said the same thing to me last year. And while I appreciate the advice, I'm in the same situation. Literally only one piano store for each brand in like a 3 hour drive radius. There's basically no negotiating with these people unless it's available online for less (I've never seen any that are).

Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787831
12/04/18 06:17 PM
12/04/18 06:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,772
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
7000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,772
Raleigh, North Carolina
I'm not sure what your question means.
Originally Posted by PhilH930
What does that mean - you'd offer less?
Offer less means offer less. Try to buy at 35% off of list price, and settle for 30% off.

The trick is to know the list price. But there are alternatives.

Alternative 1: For a Yamaha CLP-x4x model I would offer $2500. That's near the low end of what they frequently sell for.
I can't offer specific information about the Kawai CA-78, sorry.

Alternative 2: Look at the prices paid spreadsheet. (Refer to the "master sticky" on the main page and follow the link.)
There you'll find out how much other people have paid. Since you're in the US, ignore sales listed in other countries.

Alernative 3: Look at the "estimated prices" at pianobuyer.com
Those are not list prices. Nonetheless, treat those prices as "way too high".
I'd take 25% or 30% off those prices as my starting offer.

As for this:
Originally Posted by PhilH930
I've tried that and they tell me to pound sand.
How much did you offer? What attitude did you portray? What was the dealer's asking price?

And for this:
Originally Posted by PhilH930
... Kawai guy put my price up 3% due to credit card fee, which I flat out refuse to pay anywhere in life.
I agree. But knowing that he's inclined to add 3% for a CC payment, just lower your offer by 3%.
It's just a game.

Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: Kougeru] #2787833
12/04/18 06:20 PM
12/04/18 06:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,772
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
7000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,772
Raleigh, North Carolina
Would you be willing to elaborate on this?
Originally Posted by Kougeru
He said the same thing to me last year.
Which piano?
What was the asking price?
What was your offer?

Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787854
12/04/18 08:40 PM
12/04/18 08:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 145
O
oneilt130 Online content
Full Member
oneilt130  Online Content
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 145
FYI I am checking out the CA78 as well. A dealer about an hour away from me is offering the satin black one for $3,699 plus tax. Does not include shipping. The dealer mentioned something about a $100 rebate from Kawai and that they are doubling the rebate to get to that price.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787870
12/04/18 09:59 PM
12/04/18 09:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,772
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
7000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,772
Raleigh, North Carolina
If you don't mind my asking ... how much will you offer for that CA78?

Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: MacMacMac] #2787880
12/04/18 10:24 PM
12/04/18 10:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,199
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,199
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
If you don't mind my asking ... how much will you offer for that CA78?

Can I hire you to negotiate my upcoming DP purchase? LOL


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Beginner DP - Yamaha CLP645 & Kawai CA78 [Re: PhilH930] #2787898
12/04/18 11:51 PM
12/04/18 11:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Atlanta, GA
P
PhilH930 Offline OP
Junior Member
PhilH930  Offline OP
Junior Member
P

Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Atlanta, GA
Thanks for the feedback. MacMacMac - I offered $3800 for CA78 on original sales price of $4099 (vs MSRP of $5099). Dealer came back with $100 rebate mentioned above, $4000 cash (plus tax), or if credit +3% on price post tax. I can understand the cash angle, but I prefer using credit for purchase protection every time. The aforementioned 3%, plus the store being in a county with sales tax 2% higher is just 5% of money I'd rather put into the piano. Granted, this isn't life changing money, but principle holds true.

I didn't negotiate back on the CA78 yet as he got pushy for cash and a copy of a check - not really my style. Like to think I can push for a good deal (last car we got 12.5% off MSRP), but these piano dealers, so far, won't budge.

Now, I'm going to research the prices paid worksheet referenced above, and probably send the CLP-645 dealer an offer tomorrow. I still do kick around the 675 and 685 thoughts though, so may stop and see those after work (they are only available to see in an alternate store).


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