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Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: sluk07] #2787338
12/03/18 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by sluk07

Goals

My main goal when learning was to work through the grades and get to grade 8 standard. I was prepared for the fact it would take years and a lot of practice. I am total music nut, it's my passion in life and so it seemed natural to want to learn to play something.

I like playing classical/baroque piano pieces and this the genre I would like to develop a repertoire in.


I have recently got my grade 2 and I'm working towards grade 3.


- I feel my progress is too slow. I am limited in the time I can put into playing. It takes me months to learn one piece competently. Again, is this normal?

I believe I'm the pianist here whose student history is closest to yours, in the sense that I had a teacher all through my student years, I loved classical music, and I was doing ABRSM grade exams - one grade a year grin.

Where we diverge is in the fact that I was a kid at the time (I started lessons at 10) and I had zero expectations and even less than zero goals. All I knew was that I was totally talentless, there is no musical gene in my family (my parents started me on piano lessons simply to keep up with the Joneses, and had no interest in music of any sort): I knew that for certain because they couldn't tell that I was deliberately playing "all the wrong notes" (pace André Preview wink *) in a Mozart piece, so any little progress I made was a bonus, not least to me. Some years, I surprised myself by getting much better marks than I expected in an exam.....

* https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xds7am

But I loved classical music, and couldn't wait to get to the practice rooms after school to play - not just practising what I was learning with my teacher, but also having fun afterwards, sometimes with a violinist friend, where we'd tear a pop tune to shreds and put it back together again, usually in the wrong order grin, - as well as just sight-reading through music scores that I'd borrowed from the school music library. Anything that resembled playable music was fair game. The result of course was that every minute I spent at the piano having fun was a minute that I 'banked' in my pianistic armoury, even when I wasn't practising my scales or pieces.

In other words, music was my main recreation, while I also learnt from my teacher and practised my pieces - never to perfection, BTW, and my teacher never kept me on any one piece for long before moving on, apart from the three exam pieces a year. I only needed to learn the skills specific to each piece, not to bring it to 'performance standard' (whatever that was - I never performed as a student). If my teacher was satisfied, so was I. After all, I had no long-term goals, even though every year I was inching towards Grade 8 (and eventually, beyond), simply through enjoying my time spent on the piano. Even the pieces I didn't particularly like as music turned out to be fun to play once I'd got beyond learning the notes; and I was also learning other stuff (all classical pieces) by myself - again purely for fun.

As others have said, it's all about the journey. I was never going to make music my career, but I was definitely going to have lots of fun doing it (which included joining the school choir, so that I could sing all the great vocal music that I couldn't play on the piano), and progress was what it was.

So, my advice to you is, just enjoy the journey and branch out to other stuff (how about playing carols and Christmassy stuff by ear, as badly as you like? grin), and if you want to continue with the exams, no problem. Just remember, all work and no play makes Jill a dull girl.

Here's someone you might know who's been having fun as well as going through the ABRSM grades:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAmq6akwTIc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPvtWl77yF4


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
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Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: pianoloverus] #2787343
12/03/18 01:26 PM
12/03/18 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sluk07
My main goal when learning was to work through the grades and get to grade 8 standard.


When I read this, all kinds of red flags flew up in my mind. This is the poison at the center of your ills. It says two, nearly identical things, both of which are not good:

1. You are not playing for yourself, for your own joy;

2. You are playing for someone else. What is a "grade 8" but just a label SOMEONE ELSE attaches to you? Would a pianist who has attained all the skills, appreciation, understanding, and artistry of a "grade 8" somehow enjoy his music more just because some accreditation agency bestowed a label on him? Or, would those positioned to hear his lovely music enjoy it less because he had not been so bestowed? Music is one thing. Acclaim is something else. Which is more important to you?

Love of your music can sustain you. Love of acclaim is like joining the hamsters on the wheel. Though it is a lot of work, it is tiring and draining, and never gets you anywhere worth going to.

Carefullly consider all the advice given:


Originally Posted by barbaram
You are doing this for *you*....
And I think life is too short to engage in hobbies that you don't enjoy. That misses the point of what hobbies are for.
So for me, if a hobby is not giving me joy or enriching my life, then I would swap it for something that does.


Amen!

Originally Posted by Lillith
All I can add is that imo you're playing the wrong music.

If whatever you're practising doesn't make you look forward to it, then choose something that does.
There are squillions of pieces of music out there for all levels so there will be loads you will actually like playing.



Amen!

Originally Posted by leemeadowcroft
For me it's all about the journey and learning the pieces I enjoy. It won't be practice so much as just playing and enjoying my hobby. I think it is very much about what you play and how much of a perfectionist you are. I have no interest in learning a piece that doesn't mean anything to me which is why I would probably be no good with a teacher suggesting what I play. A hobby shouldn't be about grinding through the exercises, you have to enjoy the here and now.


I feel much the same way with the caveat that if you take care to aim for music you can love, the hard work and grind of learning the necessary skills will be no grind at all, rather a joy. And, you will grind. And, you will enjoy!


Originally Posted by Richrf
Learn to enjoy the act of creating music. There is no frustration if there are no goals... Switching perspective is not easy, but it is worthwhile.


Amen.


Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I think one of the most important points made so far is to try and work on pieces you really love.


Amen.


There is a reason this sentiment keeps appearing. It is what keeps us excited about sitting at our pianos each day. If you want to love what you are doing, do what you love.


If someone came along and pressed you into involuntary service toward a goal that was not your own, you would fight with all your might to free yourself from such slavery. Why, then, would you do it to yourself? The world of piano is broad and limitless. Somewhere in the world of piano music, there is likely something you can love to play and learn. Find it. Ignore the voices that seek to restrict your scope to just certain, standard repertoire if that music does not excite you. Let it be practice fodder or include it in your instructional diet. But, keep your personal desires at the forefront, and pursue your happiness.

Somewhere, there is music that will excite you. As Lillith said, there are "squillions' of pieces of music. There are so many that most teachers are familiar with only a very, very, very, very small percentage of it.

You deserve joy, not slavery. Go for it!


Ralph

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Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Ralphiano] #2787348
12/03/18 01:35 PM
12/03/18 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralphiano

What is a "grade 8" but just a label SOMEONE ELSE attaches to you? Would a pianist who has attained all the skills, appreciation, understanding, and artistry of a "grade 8" somehow enjoy his music more just because some accreditation agency bestowed a label on him?
Precisely! Nor would a person who has attained grade 8 necessarily be a better musician and pianist than someone who has not. The piano 'grade' myth is, as I've said before, extremely limiting and puts so many people off playing - proven by the number of people who will say 'I hated playing the piano because I hated having to do exams'.
The key word above is having: No one has to do exams to enjoy making music. The grade exams are worthless in so many ways - not least, musically.




Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Ralphiano] #2787350
12/03/18 01:37 PM
12/03/18 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ralphiano
You deserve joy, not slavery. Go for it!

As an issue close to home for me, the problem is that not everyone values the journey as much as the destination. Some people journey for the purpose of getting to the destination. Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't have a thread to help people who don't appreciate journeys to start appreciating their journeys, but one really shouldn't assume that everyone appreciates the journey automatically - some people are motivated entirely differently. My read of the OP's original post was that the OP is more of a destination person than a voyager, and that personally resonates with me.

Originally Posted by precise
The key word above is having: No one has to do exams to enjoy making music. The grade exams are worthless in so many ways - not least, musically.

And some people really are motivated differently.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: sluk07] #2787357
12/03/18 02:07 PM
12/03/18 02:07 PM
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When I started playing piano at about the same age. I had some personal issues and nearly had a nervous breakdown. Getting into playing music is a lifesaver. I never thought that the only reasons for playing is to progress through the various conservatory levels or playing only certain repertoire for a teacher. There are enough pieces available for download online to last a lifetime.

Everyday I wake up in the morning the first thing is to get to my keyboard to play a piece that I like to listen to. It's OK to take time off taking lessons but at the same time people like myself have some knowledge reading music can just pick and choose songs off the Internet and learn without a teacher. Practice time is rather arbitrary. If I like a piece I can work at it for hours and not stick to a 1 hour practice schedule.

Christmas is just around the corner. A few days ago I found a piano arrangement of "Carol of the Bells" and started playing it. The music is rather repetitive and easy to get into. A while back I listened to a waltz on radio and got a piano arrangement online. I'd never think about a piece as being at a level 3 or 7. The technical level of a piece is rather arbitrary. I'd just try a few measures. If the level is too advance I'd work on other pieces until I'm ready to tackle the piece again.

I know a few people who took piano lessons in the past and passed a few conservatory levels. They had no reason to continue because they feel they are only playing repertoire assigned by a teacher. Besides the weekly lessons, they have no connection with the pieces they are playing. At a Christmas party you'd play "We Wish You a Merry Christmas" & "Auld Lang Syne" and "Happy Birthday" on a special day. Playing music can be uplifting regardless of the level of difficulty. I don't have to stick to playing "Minuet in G", a Bach Invention or a Beethoven Sonata or a Chopin Nocturne because it is a piece I'm supposed to learn for my grade level. I'd play "O Holy Night" which is not in a conservatory level book during the holidays.

Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: TheophilusCarter] #2787361
12/03/18 02:14 PM
12/03/18 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TheophilusCarter
'll say again I agree with a lot of the advice and encouragement here. But at the end of the day, the OP has to make a decision that works for them. Quitting is one option, and it's not a failure of any kind; it's simply a decision to use one's precious free time in a more rewarding way.
Good advice and an interesting/relevant personal story to go with it.

Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: sluk07] #2787366
12/03/18 02:18 PM
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I don't think the back issue helps at all. It may even affect the shoulder area which will also effect your progress.
You say you have a sit down job. You could try mounting your digital at a height where you can stand up and play. Of course it's not the norm, I tried it and experienced much greater freedom, more tension free playing. I too have back issues. The height I had mine placed the forearm in exactly the same horizontal position that I had when I was sat at the piano. I didn't have a real stand to get the piano to that height. It was all a bit improvised. Now I play with a chair that has a back rest and I've found it a big improvement over a piano bench. Some of us just need lumber support.
You say you have only 45 minutes per day. Why not just concentrate on playing the pieces that you like. There are so many at grade 2, 3 and 4 level. Hanon - you don't need to do it, especially if time is a little limited.

Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Michael P Walsh] #2787372
12/03/18 02:35 PM
12/03/18 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P Walsh
You could try mounting your digital at a height where you can stand up and play. Of course it's not the norm, I tried it and experienced much greater freedom, more tension free playing. I too have back issues. The height I had mine placed the forearm in exactly the same horizontal position that I had when I was sat at the piano. I didn't have a real stand to get the piano to that height. It was all a bit improvised. Now I play with a chair that has a back rest and I've found it a big improvement over a piano bench. Some of us just need lumber support.

Because I have back problems, I tried this and found use of the pedals awkward, and I felt pedal use resulted in tight shin muscle and unbalanced me, possibly exacerbating my back condition, so I opted against this. How do you handle pedals yourself and keep your shin muscles relaxed?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: sluk07] #2787383
12/03/18 02:48 PM
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Here is the thing about learning an instrument...

YOU NEVER stop learning. You only improve, with that said, your issues may slow you down , but even if you'r back and what not was ok, you still learn along the way , just faster.
Then once you learn through your goals, you may find interest in other genres or get deeper into what you like, so there is still a learning process.

Its a life long thing, and in life there will always be obstacles, i.e health issues or time etc... that will only slow you down, but should not make you quit!

Even if you get through all your grades, you will still have to learn pieces, and spend time on learning pieces, so learning never really stops..

Last edited by Jitin; 12/03/18 02:52 PM.

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Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: sluk07] #2787401
12/03/18 03:55 PM
12/03/18 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sluk07
[...]I just don't enjoy practicing. This is the big one. I come home from work and then the thought of practicing makes me feel mentally tired. I force myself to do it, but after a practice session usually I feel more frustrated and annoyed than I do pleased/happy/relaxed.
[...]


I think that the above quote is the crux of the issue. This is what you have to examine and determine why this is so. Perhaps, as others have well articulated, you are too focused on "Grade 8" level as your goal, without enjoying the present moment. Perhaps your practice techniques need revisiting.

While practicing can sometimes bring on a certain amount of physical exhaustion, if "done right" practicing can also lead to some sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. What bothers me most about this quote is that even the thought of practicing tires you and you have to force yourself to practice. That is neither the way to enjoyment nor to achieving your goal.

I agree with much of the advice expressed in this thread.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2787403
12/03/18 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Michael P Walsh
You could try mounting your digital at a height where you can stand up and play. Of course it's not the norm, I tried it and experienced much greater freedom, more tension free playing. I too have back issues. The height I had mine placed the forearm in exactly the same horizontal position that I had when I was sat at the piano. I didn't have a real stand to get the piano to that height. It was all a bit improvised. Now I play with a chair that has a back rest and I've found it a big improvement over a piano bench. Some of us just need lumber support.

Because I have back problems, I tried this and found use of the pedals awkward, and I felt pedal use resulted in tight shin muscle and unbalanced me, possibly exacerbating my back condition, so I opted against this. How do you handle pedals yourself and keep your shin muscles relaxed?


Sorry didn't try the pedal. It was a hastily set up trial. I can see the issue with the pedal though.

Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: BruceD] #2787405
12/03/18 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by sluk07
[...]I just don't enjoy practicing. This is the big one. I come home from work and then the thought of practicing makes me feel mentally tired. I force myself to do it, but after a practice session usually I feel more frustrated and annoyed than I do pleased/happy/relaxed.
[...]


I think that the above quote is the crux of the issue. This is what you have to examine and determine why this is so. Perhaps, as others have well articulated, you are too focused on "Grade 8" level as your goal, without enjoying the present moment. Perhaps your practice techniques need revisiting.

While practicing can sometimes bring on a certain amount of physical exhaustion, if "done right" practicing can also lead to some sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. What bothers me most about this quote is that even the thought of practicing tires you and you have to force yourself to practice. That is neither the way to enjoyment nor to achieving your goal.

I agree with much of the advice expressed in this thread.

Regards,

Bruce,

what is your idea of practice, done right?


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Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: sluk07] #2787406
12/03/18 04:15 PM
12/03/18 04:15 PM
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Some practical points: (1) Cut back your warmup/scales to zero or five minutes. Your current 10-15 min represents too large a percentage of your available practice time. Don't do Hanon. Hanon should only be done to work on smooth and even playing, not for speed. (2) Make sure you get up and move around every 10-15 min. I don't have back problems but I still need to get up and move for a few minutes every now and then. Also, can you fit in some practice before going to work? The advantage there is that you will be fresh and not exhausted from your workday.

How set are you on pursuing the grade exams? I am not going the grade route. My teacher's philosophy during the first three years was to expose me to a lot of composers and music. Now, halfway through my fourth year, I'm still getting exposure to composers from all the different eras, but we're working to a higher standard on many of the pieces. Being exposed to many pieces means I get the (to me) occasional 'clunker,' but there's always a piece or two that I really love.

Would your teacher have a different approach with you if you weren't going for grade exams? Would you get more "throw-away" pieces (pieces that have some skill to teach you but that you don't take to performance standard) and more pieces that you bring in that you would like to learn? With your interest in music, you should be able to suggest some pieces. Might I suggest that you set aside, for now, your exam-based approach and concentrate on just learning to make music? You can always resume a grade-based approach at a later date if you so desire.

I think I read somewhere that for adults (once they make it past the first few weeks or months) the danger time for giving up is at 3-4 years. They've made the huge gains of the early stages and they now have a better understanding of what it takes to make it to higher levels. They're on a plateau, and that can be frustrating. Sometimes just knowing this, and making peace with it, makes all the difference.


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Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2787453
12/03/18 06:31 PM
12/03/18 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
How do you handle pedals yourself and keep your shin muscles relaxed?

Second-hand advice from a friend, who although classically trained, doesn't perform any classical repertoire:

1) don't use standard pianist pedals. Use the swiveling pedals designed for organists or guitarists. Then you'll be able to put the whole (half) body weight on the pedal foot and control the effect by the changes of the angle.

2) use the very tall stool with a bicycle/tractor shape of the seat for the change from standing during a long performance sessions.

There are other options available that depend on being able to quickly reposition the keyboard (so it has to be rather light, with unweighted action) e.g. sitting cross-legged (Asian style) with the pedals brought up to the seat level and operated by swiveling the foot right-left not down-up (in the anatomical sense of the motion at the joints).

This advice is from somebody without the medical problems that you described, the non-conventional position for playing is purely a social/artistic choice. She also dances while playing some pieces.

Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Lillith] #2787473
12/03/18 07:21 PM
12/03/18 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Lillith


Giving up piano, from the info you give, is a bit like giving up reading because you're not enjoying War and Peace smile


How can one not enjoy War and Peace???!!! smile (I do love it and teach it, so...)

Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: dumka1] #2787476
12/03/18 07:32 PM
12/03/18 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dumka1
Originally Posted by Lillith


Giving up piano, from the info you give, is a bit like giving up reading because you're not enjoying War and Peace smile


How can one not enjoy War and Peace???!!! smile (I do love it and teach it, so...)

Woot! Woot! Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky's translation too! Woot! This is my #1 favorite novel (#2 is Proust's À la recherche du temps perdu)

I think I've read the chapter where Andrei Bolkonsky is lying looking at the sky when Napoleon rides up about 50 times at least. Maybe more. I've even struggled through it in Russian once, but it's not the same when you have to constantly look up words. LOL.

I always thought it was ironic and sad how children in the FSU were force fed Tolstoy until they were sick of him. My wife can't stand to read anything by him since he was poured down her throat in grade school. Children at that age really can appreciate him.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2787479
12/03/18 07:42 PM
12/03/18 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dumka1
Originally Posted by Lillith


Giving up piano, from the info you give, is a bit like giving up reading because you're not enjoying War and Peace smile


How can one not enjoy War and Peace???!!! smile (I do love it and teach it, so...)

Woot! Woot! Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky's translation too! Woot! This is my #1 favorite novel (#2 is Proust's À la recherche du temps perdu)

I think I've read the chapter where Andrei Bolkonsky is lying looking at the sky when Napoleon rides up about 50 times at least. Maybe more. I've even struggled through it in Russian once, but it's not the same when you have to constantly look up words. LOL.

I always thought it was ironic and sad how children in the FSU were force fed Tolstoy until they were sick of him. My wife can't stand to read anything by him since he was poured down her throat in grade school. Children at that age really can appreciate him.

Don't want to hijack the thread, but thanks. A lot of Russian classical literature was ruined for Soviet/former Soviet kids as a result of schools teaching them in a very didactic and often overly ideologized way...

Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2787480
12/03/18 07:44 PM
12/03/18 07:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,343
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
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Stubbie  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,343
Midwest USA
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dumka1
Originally Posted by Lillith


Giving up piano, from the info you give, is a bit like giving up reading because you're not enjoying War and Peace smile


How can one not enjoy War and Peace???!!! smile (I do love it and teach it, so...)

Woot! Woot! Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky's translation too! Woot! This is my #1 favorite novel (#2 is Proust's À la recherche du temps perdu)

I think I've read the chapter where Andrei Bolkonsky is lying looking at the sky when Napoleon rides up about 50 times at least. Maybe more. I've even struggled through it in Russian once, but it's not the same when you have to constantly look up words. LOL.

I always thought it was ironic and sad how children in the FSU were force fed Tolstoy until they were sick of him. My wife can't stand to read anything by him since he was poured down her throat in grade school. Children at that age really can appreciate him.
I read War and Peace (Anthony Briggs translation) this past winter and enjoyed it very much. This winter I intend to read Anna Karenina. Problem is, I know how it ends. frown


[Linked Image]
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Stubbie] #2787486
12/03/18 08:06 PM
12/03/18 08:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,111
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Stubbie
I read War and Peace (Anthony Briggs translation) this past winter and enjoyed it very much.

That's interesting. I just looked up Anthony Briggs translation and saw it was Penguin Classics edition, and got very excited, since the first time I read War and Peace about 40 years ago, it was the Penguin Classics edition. But then I saw that the Penguin Classics edition that I had read was actually translated not by Briggs, but by Rosemary Edmonds. I'm so surprised that Penguin Classics has published two editions of the same novel, each translated by a different translator! A veritable cornucopia of Tolstoy! shocked

Originally Posted by Stubbie
This winter I intend to read Anna Karenina. Problem is, I know how it ends. frown

Are you sure? Who knows! Maybe this time poor Anna can find happiness after all! grin


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Help - advice required - quit or persevere? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2787488
12/03/18 08:09 PM
12/03/18 08:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,111
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,111
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Children at that age really can appreciate him.

Oops. That was supposed to be "can't," not "can".


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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