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Roland fp90
#2787325 12/03/18 11:47 AM
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Hello
I have a bought an fp90 I’ve had it for 6 months
The notes down from middle C sound rubbish
Muffled dull and out of tune.
I’ve tried the designer feature to no good.
In fact I hate it playing sound out of tune and off key. Not a bit like you can hear demos on YouTube
Anyone have any method to make it sound like the demos .
Thanks John

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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787327 12/03/18 11:50 AM
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Have you tried a factory reset? Maybe you have some per key tuning settings stuck.


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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787333 12/03/18 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Solderman
In fact I hate it playing sound out of tune and off key. Not a bit like you can hear demos on YouTube
Anyone have any method to make it sound like the demos .

Use a VST. See the posts on VSTs in this thread and this thread, among others


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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787349 12/03/18 12:36 PM
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If you have a smartphone (Android or Apple), download a free "tuner" or "guitar tuner" from its app store.

Use it to check whether the fp-90 is really out-of-tune, or if your ears are playing tricks on you.

Please report back.

I think a "factory reset" is a good idea, too.


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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787376 12/03/18 01:41 PM
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If it sounds ok over headphones, move it to another room!?

Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787379 12/03/18 01:44 PM
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To be honest: I seriously doubt that a digital piano that has been on the market for two years is actually out of tune and that OP is simply the first person to notice it. smile

So unless it was deliberately detuned via its settings (which a reset can undo), the problem is more likely in OP's perception of the sound.

And of course there's such a thing as "stretch tuning" affecting lower and higher notes more but not middle notes (so much). This may throw off a check with a simple tuner app too, btw.


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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787380 12/03/18 01:44 PM
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Roland has a app called piano designer, i think you can tune and change individual key loudness/volume (lower/ higher each key volume) try it and let us know if this works for you.
thanks,
jitin


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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787442 12/03/18 05:07 PM
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It would be helpful if you uploaded a recording. There are so many parameters that you can change, it is impossible to advise you without hearing what you think is wrong. It would also be helpful to know if you have always thought this from day one or not.

Out of tune. Your instrument is not out of tune unless you have detuned it yourself by accident somehow. If so, you need to do a factory reset.

The basics: make sure the EQ sliders are back to zero before making any changes to any presets. (the sliders should be in the middle not at the bottom)

In the Piano Designer, Open the Lid to 6. That will give the most wide open sound.

The most powerful parameter to experiment with is Soundboard type. The default pianos use Soundboard type 1, which is the worst one to my taste. I tend to use soundboard types 2 & 3 the most.

Then Single Note Character. Higher values will give you a harder, more percussive, more clearly defined sound, lower values will give you a softer sound. If muffled and dull is your problem, you should try raising the Single Note Character for all the notes below middle C.

Finally, do you like the sound with good headphones? If so, you might have to accept that (true of nearly all DPs in that price point) the amplification and speakers are not much better than a ghettoblaster and you should think about buying external monitors.

Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787451 12/03/18 05:26 PM
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You can also sell it and buy P515, which sounds so much better, but looks so much worse, or Kawai ES8, which is gorgeous looking, has nice light action and sounds better than FP90, not as good as Yamaha IMO.

Or just buy VST, connect your laptop to FP90 with one USB cable, forward sounds to Roland's speakers and enjoy its PHA50 keybed, which is wonderful.


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787545 12/03/18 09:32 PM
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a thought:

. . . When a musician says "flat", he/she is always referring to _pitch_.

. . . When a non-musicians says "flat", he/she is sometimes talking about _tone quality_. A musician would say "dead" or "dull" -- the opposite of "bright" -- instead.

Maybe that's happening here?


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Re: Roland fp90
Charles Cohen #2787581 12/04/18 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
a thought:

. . . When a musician says "flat", he/she is always referring to _pitch_.

. . . When a non-musicians says "flat", he/she is sometimes talking about _tone quality_. A musician would say "dead" or "dull" -- the opposite of "bright" -- instead.

Maybe that's happening here?



Yes, I often think of many digitals as flat, dynamically, but not the FP-90, but I know some people don't care for it. However, he seems to like the demos. He does say "out of tune and off key" though.

If it's being played normally and sounds out of tune, there's something wrong with that particular piano, and not the FP-90 in general.

Last edited by johnstaf; 12/04/18 12:21 AM.
Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787616 12/04/18 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Solderman
Hello
I have a bought an fp90 I’ve had it for 6 months
The notes down from middle C sound rubbish
Muffled dull and out of tune.
I’ve tried the designer feature to no good.
In fact I hate it playing sound out of tune and off key. Not a bit like you can hear demos on YouTube
Anyone have any method to make it sound like the demos .
Thanks John


Please provide more info:
Is it like this when played via headphones, or just when played through the speakers?

Muffled dull sound is one thing.
A digital piano is NEVER out of tune unless: a) it is set to be so OR b) unless it is broken/malfunctioning OR c) you have absolute pitch but have been used to playing piano set to a different standard for the frequency of the notes (e.g., 435Hz instead of 440Hz for A4, but I imagine this is not the case if everything above mid c is correct).

Muffled dull sound can be due to:
a) The speaker system being rubbish or malfunctioning
b) The Headphones you have being unfitting for the instrument.

One could try borrowing a PA system or set of decent monitors to see if the speakers are causing it.
Try different headphones also.

It is possible that both the speakers are not functioning as they should AND your headphones aren't doing it justice. You'll need to rule these both out.

Also, does it happen for other sounds or just specific sounds?
Have you upgraded your piano to the latest firmware (if Roland release firmware updates?)??

Bare in mind that sometimes for whatever reason, a particular piano may come off the production line with a fault OR transit might have damaged the electronics somehow i.e., you might need a replacement model!

I assume you tested this piano before you brought it?
Maybe if not, you should test this piano at a music store and see if you get a similar result.

Last edited by Doug M.; 12/04/18 05:17 AM.

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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787623 12/04/18 05:40 AM
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Also the room where instrument is placed plays a huge role (of course not when using headphones). My ES8 sounds medicore in 12m2 bedroom standing next to the wall, but really nice in big auditorium in my office.

As for FP90: Roland is still pretty far from nailing "the sound" with their modeling. It's plastic, synthy, muddled (and a lot of other not-objective adjectives) by its nature.


Ars non habet osorem nisi ignorantem
Re: Roland fp90
AlphaBravoCharlie #2787653 12/04/18 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Also the room where instrument is placed plays a huge role (of course not when using headphones). My ES8 sounds medicore in 12m2 bedroom standing next to the wall, but really nice in big auditorium in my office.

As for FP90: Roland is still pretty far from nailing "the sound" with their modeling. It's plastic, synthy, muddled (and a lot of other not-objective adjectives) by its nature.


The room issue is a good point; however, I wonder if that would only affect the bass to mid C notes?
As for the sound: it should sound like the demo videos. The bass shouldn't sound different when you get the piano home.


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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787729 12/04/18 12:05 PM
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I’ve looked at the tuning with an app on my phone
Most notes are out by a small amount, 3to 5 cents some a bit more.
And I’ve done factory reset, that’s made middle C sound
Dull and muddy.
I also played one of the built in songs called singing wind
That sounds wonderful if only sounded like that
when I play it would be marvellous.
I’ll play around with piano designer feature next.
I’ll get a good set of head phone and see if that helps.

I’m not a brilliant player but I can play a song so I can not see
how it could be my technique.

I’m beginning to thing it’s this Roland super
Natural modelling I dont like.

Thanks for all the comment very helpful.
If you can think of anything else let me know

Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787755 12/04/18 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Solderman
I’ve looked at the tuning with an app on my phone
Most notes are out by a small amount, 3to 5 cents some a bit more.
And I’ve done factory reset, that’s made middle C sound
Dull and muddy.
I also played one of the built in songs called singing wind
That sounds wonderful if only sounded like that
when I play it would be marvellous.
I’ll play around with piano designer feature next.
I’ll get a good set of head phone and see if that helps.

I’m not a brilliant player but I can play a song so I can not see
how it could be my technique.

I’m beginning to thing it’s this Roland super
Natural modelling I dont like.

Thanks for all the comment very helpful.
If you can think of anything else let me know


Well, it is good news that you have confirmed that there is nothing wrong with the sound engine as the demo song sounds good. So the potential for a good sound is there. 2 good players can play on the same Steinway and it will sound totally different. DPs are no different. Different weight of touch, fingering, use of pedal etc will stand out on a sensitive instrument.

So maybe you need to customise the response to your input by playing around with the Key Touch parameter. Try reducing the Key Touch value to make it easier to get a brighter sound with a lighter touch. The FP90 is a weighted keyboard, perhaps your technique means that you are not generating enough force to properly activate the heavier bass keys?

Maybe try that first before playing around with the piano designer.

Re: Roland fp90
AlphaBravoCharlie #2787767 12/04/18 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaBravoCharlie
Also the room where instrument is placed plays a huge role (of course not when using headphones). My ES8 sounds medicore in 12m2 bedroom standing next to the wall, but really nice in big auditorium in my office.


The room can explain a tone quality issue, but not a pitch issue like this thread is about.

A digital tuner could be used to have an objective measure. Then factory reset... and perhaps a service center if the piano is broken. An issue on the sound generator seems me weird, but who knows.


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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787818 12/04/18 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Solderman
I’ve looked at the tuning with an app on my phone
Most notes are out by a small amount, 3to 5 cents some a bit more.
And I’ve done factory reset, that’s made middle C sound
Dull and muddy.
I also played one of the built in songs called singing wind
That sounds wonderful if only sounded like that
when I play it would be marvellous.
I’ll play around with piano designer feature next.
I’ll get a good set of head phone and see if that helps.

I’m not a brilliant player but I can play a song so I can not see
how it could be my technique.

I’m beginning to thing it’s this Roland super
Natural modelling I dont like.

Thanks for all the comment very helpful.
If you can think of anything else let me know


Be aware that the point of modelling is that you can create imperfections that mimick real pianos e.g., in the way that most acoustics aren't in perfect tune (at least, not all of the strings are). The problem with the FP90 is that it doesn't have the bespoke sound system of the LX17 (which really shows off the benefits of modelling).

With regard to finding a set of modifications which work, I'm sure there are many people you could ask on YouTube but also maybe look through posts on Pianoworld and via Google. No point in reinventing the wheel.


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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2787912 12/04/18 11:58 PM
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Well maybe you are one with the feather touch? I had FA-08 that had supernatural pianos and the keyboard was pretty heavy. And since it is progressive it gets harder to press towards bass - and supernatural piano will start muddy and got brilliant only if you smash the keys really hard. (Unlike the demo that doesn't need to hammer those heavy roland keybeds with its poor fingers)
The cure is to change the velocity curve. I had to do it on my FA08 and pretty drastically or else I was really just playing in the bottom velocities and getting muddy supernatural sound. I don't remember how was it on the FA08 but I assume "increasing" the velocity curve was the trick - look at the documentation.
I am like 99% positive this is your problem.

Last edited by oscar1; 12/05/18 12:01 AM.

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Re: Roland fp90
Solderman #2788000 12/05/18 09:06 AM
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I’m shocked , I tried some good quality headphones
And it really does sound much better.
Not so dull and muffled. Going down from middle C.. Roland advertisers this fp90 to have top Quality speakers, one of the reasons I bought it. Never though headphone would be any better.

Getto blaster speaker some one said, you are so right too. I’m disappointed with Roland.
I’m going to try and tweak the setting to get a more grand / concert piano type sound like the demo song singing winds

Looks like I may have to buy some monitor speakers!

Thanks everyone for the advice it’s been very helpful
I’ll let you know if I can get the tone from the piano I’m looking for

John
In a very cold Scarborough uk

Last edited by Solderman; 12/05/18 09:08 AM. Reason: Word change
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