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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785757 11/28/18 06:12 PM
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Thank you all for many of your helpful and comprehensive comments!

Prior to this post, I had contacted Roland to see what was going on with the V-Piano. You might be interested in their responses.

Quote
Are there any advantages to the V-Piano over the RD-2000?

The V-Piano has a different (more advanced) keyboard assembly, a few more editing options, and more models (different types of pianos) than the RD-2000.


It's interesting they are saying the V-Piano has a "more advanced" keyboard assembly. I wonder if that's a different way to say "the assembly is more complicated". It's not clear from their answer if they're claiming it's in any way more "authentic" or objectively closer to the physics of a real acoustic piano.

Quote
Has the V-Piano been discontinued?

Yes, we are no longer selling the V-Piano.


Have they officially announced this anywhere? I suppose the writing has been on the wall with lack of updates and the like. But I'm very surprised it still shows up as the first item, as if it's their flagship item, in multiple places on the website.

Quote
Will there be a new model of the V-Piano?

There is not a newer version of the V-Piano available at this time. There may be a new model in the future, but we have not heard of any plans for this.


This doesn't mean anything really, I suppose. smile


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785781 11/28/18 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pianissimoe
Quote
Has the V-Piano been discontinued?

Yes, we are no longer selling the V-Piano.

Have they officially announced this anywhere? I suppose the writing has been on the wall with lack of updates and the like. But I'm very surprised it still shows up as the first item, as if it's their flagship item, in multiple places on the website.

Well, it's good you asked and didn't sit around waiting patiently for something to show up when it wasn't ever going to show up. smile


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785834 11/28/18 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by pianissimoe

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Has the V-Piano been discontinued?

Yes, we are no longer selling the V-Piano.


Have they officially announced this anywhere? I suppose the writing has been on the wall with lack of updates and the like. But I'm very surprised it still shows up as the first item, as if it's their flagship item, in multiple places on the website.

It is common for manufacturers to keep items "current" on the web site for a while after they are no longer in production, if there are still units available in the sales channel.

Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785870 11/29/18 03:57 AM
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Quote
[i]Are there any advantages

The V-Piano has a different (more advanced) keyboard assembly, a few more editing options, and more models (different types of pianos) than the RD-2000.


What is this? The V piano is supposed to have a phaiii keyboard. Is this an admission that it is, after all, a better keyboard than the other phaiii on the fp7f and HP pianos etc?


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
toddy #2785873 11/29/18 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Quote
[i]Are there any advantages

The V-Piano has a different (more advanced) keyboard assembly, a few more editing options, and more models (different types of pianos) than the RD-2000.


What is this? The V piano is supposed to have a phaiii keyboard. Is this an admission that it is, after all, a better keyboard than the other phaiii on the fp7f and HP pianos etc?

Or maybe it's an admission that the PHAIII as such is better than all later generations... wink
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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785884 11/29/18 05:20 AM
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Or maybe it’s a big pile of BS?

Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785892 11/29/18 06:50 AM
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Jobert and Pete 14. I must admit that both of these hypotheses (the pha3 being the pinnacle of Roland DP keyboard achievement hypothesis and the big pile of BS hypothesis) had flitted across my mind, too. Now I'm keen to find out which is the truth.......but I already have my suspicions.

If it had been an improved PHAiii, something like the VPC1 for Ravenscroft modification, then we should surely have been told.


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785899 11/29/18 07:29 AM
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It might have something to do with the electronics - not the keybed itself. I have a vague recollection of a separate processor or something, dedicated to the keyboard.

Greg

Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785906 11/29/18 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by sullivang
It might have something to do with the electronics - not the keybed itself. I have a vague recollection of a separate processor or something, dedicated to the keyboard.

Greg


This was certainly claimed for the generation of rd800 Roland DPs (it was called 'touch detection technology') but that's some years after the V Piano was launched.


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
toddy #2785907 11/29/18 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Quote
The V-Piano has a different (more advanced) keyboard assembly, a few more editing options, and more models (different types of pianos) than the RD-2000.


What is this? The V piano is supposed to have a phaiii keyboard. Is this an admission that it is, after all, a better keyboard than the other phaiii on the fp7f and HP pianos etc?

It says that the V-Piano has a more advanced action than the RD2000. There's nothing there about whether it has a more advanced action than the FP7F.

IMO, though, the FP7F had a better action than the RD2000.

Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2785924 11/29/18 08:36 AM
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I these quoted claims come from marketing literature, then I have to go with pete14: maybe it’s a big pile of BS.

Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
anotherscott #2785930 11/29/18 08:41 AM
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I still have my FP7F hooked up to Pianoteq that I use in my office for lunchtime practice. It still works like new and I still prefer it's action to PHA4 and rate it as good as the PHA5 in my LX17.

So much for the theory that latest is always greatest, which brings us back to the OPs dilemma. Why should you not by an instrument that really works for you (and keeps its resale value) just because in theory it doesn't have the latest tech?

Last edited by DazedAndConfused; 11/29/18 08:42 AM.
Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
DazedAndConfused #2785935 11/29/18 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by DazedAndConfused
So much for the theory that latest is always greatest, which brings us back to the OPs dilemma.

Except that the OP no longer has a dilemma as Roland had discontinued the V-Piano.

Originally Posted by DazedAndConfused
Why should you not by an instrument that really works for you (and keeps its resale value) just because in theory it doesn't have the latest tech?

As it's been throughout history, sometimes old has even better tech than new.


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
anotherscott #2786030 11/29/18 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by anotherscott

It says that the V-Piano has a more advanced action than the RD2000. There's nothing there about whether it has a more advanced action than the FP7F.

IMO, though, the FP7F had a better action than the RD2000.


I tend to agree with you - the PHAiii is a really great feeling action and very responsive. But the point is that if the Roland representative is also agreeing that the PHAiii is better than the PHA50 (two generations later), this would be an extraordinary admission for a marketing person....even if it's a view held amongst some players of Roland pianos.


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2786217 11/29/18 08:44 PM
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To me, it seems that we tend to like the keybeds we are used to unless our current keybed is bad enough that we are looking for something more suitable. With that said, I do prefer the keybed on my V-Grand to some of the newer Roland DP keybds I have played. I assume that the keybed on the V-Grand and the V-Piano are the same. Bennevis might know, since he has played both products.

I have never even seen a V-Piano in real life, though I really would like to someday. I can say that the keybed on my V-Grand felt better to me for whatever reason than the other Roland products of the time that were available for me to try, that also had the PHAIII keybed. So, again an assumption - that POSSIBLY not all PHAIII keybeds are created equal (?). I seem to remember discussions here around the time that the PHAIV was introduced, saying that there were a couple of different versions of these keybeds.

I can't say that the PHAIII keybed on the V-Piano/Grand is better constructed or otherwise technically better than the newer keybeds (though that would not make much sense to me if it were true). I can only say that I personally like it better. The newer keybeds feel too "bouncy" to me, probably because I am used to my V-Grand.

In this forum, unless one of us works for (or knows well enough to get the real information, someone who does) Roland and is working in the area that deals with the keybeds in their products (they are a big company), we are on the distant outside looking in, and therefore know nothing of what goes on inside Roland with this stuff.

I remember working for Cisco Systems as a software engineer for a few years, and reading speculative discussions about their products in forums and often wondering whether I should say anything to correct all the misinformation or not. I decided not to because I didn't want to risk getting fired. smile

Since I know nothing of the innards of the Roland company and their engineering department, I can only comment with any certainty on what I personally like better and not as well (personal taste), while (hopefully) clearly stating that anything else I can say about any Roland product (that might otherwise be construed as fact) is purely an assumption based on nothing more than uneducated guesswork, making the probability of being inaccurate at or near, 100%.

Tony


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
TonyB #2786220 11/29/18 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
So, again an assumption - that POSSIBLY not all PHAIII keybeds are created equal (?).


I've subtly wondered this about all manufacturers' actions at some point. Particularly striking is the Yamaha GHS between the P1x5 and DGX models. I think it's definitely possible that some keybed support (some may be steel-framed, others may be plastic or thinner or something else) may be different and that affects the feel/performance of the action...


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
Gombessa #2786230 11/29/18 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TonyB
I can't say that the PHAIII keybed on the V-Piano/Grand is better constructed or otherwise technically better than the newer keybeds (though that would not make much sense to me if it were true).

It makes sense if the new design were specifically created to be less expensive. And/or lighter in weight.

Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by TonyB
So, again an assumption - that POSSIBLY not all PHAIII keybeds are created equal (?).


I've subtly wondered this about all manufacturers' actions at some point. Particularly striking is the Yamaha GHS between the P1x5 and DGX models. I think it's definitely possible that some keybed support (some may be steel-framed, others may be plastic or thinner or something else) may be different and that affects the feel/performance of the action...

I don't know if it was just the one unit I tried, but I thought the DGX660 played particularly nicely, it felt better to me than the (ostensibly) same action in the MOXF8/MODX8.

Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
toddy #2786353 11/30/18 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by toddy
Jobert and Pete 14. I must admit that both of these hypotheses (the pha3 being the pinnacle of Roland DP keyboard achievement hypothesis and the big pile of BS hypothesis) had flitted across my mind, too. Now I'm keen to find out which is the truth.......but I already have my suspicions.

If it had been an improved PHAiii, something like the VPC1 for Ravenscroft modification, then we should surely have been told.


I think the notion that the PHAIII is better than the PHAIV is probably one of personal taste in actions. Just as many people have raved about the PHAIV in other threads. If you look at the evolution of the Roland PHA actions, it is clear that they get lighter e.g., the PHA50 action feels of similar weight to the Kawai Grand Feel action. That change is bound to delight some and infuriate those who prefer the weightier action. Is there anything more than weight creating a difference?

There is only one way to find out for sure and that is to find a store with the RD700NX, V-piano, FP-7F, HPi50 etc., and play these actions with the power button off. If then you feel a difference, then there must be one. Certainly, it should be possible with some scale weights to test the weighting of these actions too i.e., in order to rule out that being the main difference.


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Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
pianissimoe #2786373 11/30/18 08:53 AM
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This may be a silly question, but ... is the V-piano even being sold anymore? I've never seen one in shops.

Re: Has the V-Piano been completely superseded?
MacMacMac #2786387 11/30/18 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
This may be a silly question, but ... is the V-piano even being sold anymore? I've never seen one in shops.

See the OP's second post above. The answer is no.


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