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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2783934
11/24/18 03:25 AM
11/24/18 03:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
France
J
jgbs Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 39
France
As far as I'm concerned, the problem of distortion is also in the headphones, even if the sound is a little better.
As far as the technical aspects are concerned, I do not understand it, and I have to trust Kawai, even though I do not understand why a sampling problem does not affect ALL NV10s, but only a few.
In any case, it will be necessary that the problem be solved, because I do not think that the people affected by this problem will give up to obtain satisfaction after an investment of 8000 euros to satisfy their passion.

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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2783978
11/24/18 08:23 AM
11/24/18 08:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,293
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Pete14 Offline
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Is it safe to say we’re all still buzzing over the NV10?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2784859
11/26/18 10:33 AM
11/26/18 10:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
Swakopmund
F
FSi Offline
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FSi  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
Swakopmund
Oh Dear, what have I done...😩

We live in a country with no Kawai dealership.
Passing all the hurdles of inter continental transport and taxes, I have ordered my NV 10 from a neighboring country.

This would be my second attempt to own a piano this season.
The first being a CA 97 dropped and damaged by the airways supposed to deliver.
(Case severely damaged and does not start up . . . Not even a light - Airline insurance = 45 days until they reply to your claim)

This time via road transport for 2400 km to it's new home.
You guys tell me that I have ordered a "super expensive hummingbird" 🐦

I need a drink, seriously


for the love of life and music
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: FSi] #2784861
11/26/18 10:35 AM
11/26/18 10:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,066
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,066
Originally Posted by FSi
You guys tell me that I have ordered a "super expensive hummingbird" 🐦

OK! You have ordered a super expensive hummingbird! wink


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
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Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: FSi] #2784866
11/26/18 10:45 AM
11/26/18 10:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,008
Germany
JoBert Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,008
Germany
Originally Posted by FSi
You guys tell me that I have ordered a "super expensive hummingbird" 🐦

You may have ordered such a bird. smile
Not all NV10's are affected (my personal impression, and only from this thread here, is, that it's a minority, but a non-negligible minority). And some of the affected ones can still be tamed with the built-in equalizer (Tone Control).
So cross your fingers and hope that your's is fine. And have that drink while you're waiting...

Do you know when it will be delivered?

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2784882
11/26/18 11:43 AM
11/26/18 11:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,729
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Gombessa Offline
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Congrats FSi!

Hopefully it arrives in good shape. Do you know if it's being shipped pre-assembled or new-in-box(es)? I've had an unfortunate instance of shipping damage on one NV10 I ordered before, and my dealer believes it has something to do with how they package up the legs. Hopefully you don't have any delivery issues (and that you have proper shipping insurance in case you have trouble with cross-border warranty issues).


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2784896
11/26/18 12:16 PM
11/26/18 12:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 643
Southern California
TomLC Offline
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Posts: 643
Southern California
FSI, Welcome to the Forum and our little group of NV10 owners. You can get good advice, if you need it, with assembly. Or maybe regulating the sustain pedal from some of the “experts” that hang out here; like Gombessa and JoBert.

It seems like a 1500 mile truck ride is long. However, these pianos are shipped all over the world without a problem. Let us know when you get it and maybe send a picture? Congrats! yippie

Last edited by TomLC; 11/26/18 12:18 PM.

[Linked Image]

Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: TomLC] #2784901
11/26/18 12:26 PM
11/26/18 12:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
Swakopmund
F
FSi Offline
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FSi  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 2
Swakopmund
Thank you. Will definitely ask for assistance 😊


for the love of life and music
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: FSi] #2784903
11/26/18 12:31 PM
11/26/18 12:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 643
Southern California
TomLC Offline
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Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 643
Southern California
Originally Posted by FSi
Thank you. Will definitely ask for assistance 😊


I’m sure they don’t mind my offering their time and knowledge. wink


[Linked Image]

Kawai Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: jgbs] #2785030
11/26/18 06:42 PM
11/26/18 06:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 298
Germany
T
Tyr Offline
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Tyr  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
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Germany
Originally Posted by jgbs
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by jgbs
Hello everyone.
The Kawai technician I've been harassing for several weeks, called me this morning to tell me that Kawai had received enough complaints from around the world on the NV10 but also on ca98 and had found the problem of distortion. This would come from sampling and a new version should be available quite soon, even if it seems like a very big job.
I hope this information will give hope to those who, like me, were very disappointed.


This sound like good news! What I do not get is why the Kawai technician saying that the problem relates to the samples. I have a CA98 and have never noticed distorted sound or problems with the
samples - there are indeed a couple of notes that sound a bit louder and brighter, but that is likely just the result of the timbre and tuning of the acoustic SK-EX. The same happens with acoustic pianos and sample-based VSTs.

I also do not remember the NV10 owners complaining about distortion or buzzing through headphones. If there were problems with the samples, those could be even more noticeable through headphones than through the speakers. So, I am not exactly sure what a "sampling" problem means. Maybe Kawai is referring to a some sound processing issue before the sound is converted to analogue and amplified.

I am also not sure if the flash memory bank holding the samples can be updated by the end-user. If such an update ever happens, that would probably be the first time that a digital piano gets a sample update. Such updates are usually reserved for synths and for stage pianos from niche brands like Nord and Dexibell. To get the samples updated on a DP one needs to buy a new model...

BTW: is this info coming from Kawai Germany, whom I believe represent Kawai in Europe? Or from a local distributor in France?


This is an objection that I also expressed, but the Kawai technician is formal and he says he holds this info from Kawai Japan. I should receive a USB stick containing the new program ... Wait and see ...


I hope this is true and it will improve the overall sound. Currently none of the samples are satisfying for me. They sound bland and muddy af. Currently the sound seems to be more muffled than before one or two weeks without changing any settings. Maybe some sort of sound inertia or whatever.


Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Lite & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: FSi] #2785055
11/26/18 08:00 PM
11/26/18 08:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,797
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kawai James  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,797
Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello FSi, welcome to the forum.

Originally Posted by FSi
We live in a country with no Kawai dealership.
Passing all the hurdles of inter continental transport and taxes, I have ordered my NV 10 from a neighboring country.


May I ask where you are based (is it really Swakopmund, off the coast of Namibia?), and the processes you went through in order to purchase the NV10, please? Am I correct in thinking that your purchased the instrument from South Africa?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2785326
11/27/18 03:03 PM
11/27/18 03:03 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 92
Norway
O
oivavoi Offline
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 92
Norway
Had my second hands on-experience with the NV10 today. Played it extensively, and compared it with other DP's from Kawai and several acoustic pianos which were also in the shop.

The action is mindblowing. Not just compared to other DP's, but compared to quite a lot of mid-tier acoustic grands as well. This is really an amazing feat of engineering from Kawai.

But I still think the onboard sound from the speakers is underwhelming for a DP this expensive. It just can't compare to how a good acoustic piano generates sound, be it upright or grand. I don't think it's close at all. I actually still prefer the sound and "sonic feel" of the CS10 and CS11, probably because of the sound board. With headphones I handily preferred the NV10.

My dream digital instrument, which I guess will never materialize, is a VPC-1 kind of keyboard with only the NV10 action, midi out and nothing else. But offering such an instrument would jeopardize sales of the NV10, so I guess it won't happen for five years at the very least...

Last edited by oivavoi; 11/27/18 03:05 PM.

Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: oivavoi] #2785337
11/27/18 03:38 PM
11/27/18 03:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,729
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Gombessa Offline
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Gombessa  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 2,729
Originally Posted by oivavoi
My dream digital instrument, which I guess will never materialize, is a VPC-1 kind of keyboard with only the NV10 action, midi out and nothing else. But offering such an instrument would jeopardize sales of the NV10, so I guess it won't happen for five years at the very least...


Well, Kawai could make an VPC-like NV-10 controller. It would likely be $10k or $11k versus $12k list for the NV-10. Does that work for everyone seeking a piano-controller only model? At that price, how many people would just pay the extra 8% for the built-in sound engine and speakers?


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2785349
11/27/18 04:06 PM
11/27/18 04:06 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 92
Norway
O
oivavoi Offline
Full Member
oivavoi  Offline
Full Member
O

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 92
Norway
Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by oivavoi
My dream digital instrument, which I guess will never materialize, is a VPC-1 kind of keyboard with only the NV10 action, midi out and nothing else. But offering such an instrument would jeopardize sales of the NV10, so I guess it won't happen for five years at the very least...


Well, Kawai could make an VPC-like NV-10 controller. It would likely be $10k or $11k versus $12k list for the NV-10. Does that work for everyone seeking a piano-controller only model? At that price, how many people would just pay the extra 8% for the built-in sound engine and speakers?


I agree, at that price point there wouldn't be any point in not getting the NV-10. Personally, if I get the means in the future, I could be willing to pay up to $6k for a "VPC-10" I think. Hopefully it would also be neater and lighter than the NV-10.


Happily improvising at my Kawai CS10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2785513
11/28/18 05:59 AM
11/28/18 05:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 84
Zurich
S
Smaug Offline
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S

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 84
Zurich
A new Yamaha N1 can be found for around $5k in Europe. That's basically a controller with a good hybrid action and minimal sound.

Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: JoBert] #2785536
11/28/18 08:20 AM
11/28/18 08:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 298
Germany
T
Tyr Offline
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Tyr  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 298
Germany
After more than 6 months of testing and experimenting with the NV10, i sell it to another person.

It's a great instrument and it has a wonderful playing experience but i can't dive into the build in sounds. I tried everything to tweak the sound (pianist or sound mode) but it doesn't satisfy me in a sense that i can live with that. I'm just also not interested in building a VST setup, so i can't justify the price to my expectations for this instrument. I need a simple instrument with good speaker setup, with a bunch of build in sounds with distinct and (good sounding) samples that are different enough to fit different types of songs. Both aren't the strength of the Novus for me.

With that in mind i visited my local dealer and tested the NU1X which fits my interests the most. It's simple. It sounds great via Speakers and headphones. The action is good and the loud note issue wasn't appearing, even after smashing the key like an olympics game on the good old C64. Plus it costs half a novus.

But good news: My dealer is close to the european Kawai location in Krefeld, Germany and said that Kawai is planning a new sound chip and samples for the novus instead of using the same like the CA98. I don't know if that's true but he talked about it without asking for knowing future improvements. So it seems there is something on the horizon for NV10 users.


Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Lite & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Tyr] #2785539
11/28/18 08:31 AM
11/28/18 08:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,066
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,066
Originally Posted by Tyr
But good news: My dealer is close to the european Kawai location in Krefeld, Germany and said that Kawai is planning a new sound chip and samples for the novus instead of using the same like the CA98. I don't know if that's true but he talked about it without asking for knowing future improvements. So it seems there is something on the horizon for NV10 users.

Well, that is unlikely to be good news for current NV10 users. When hardware is changed, it rarely is good news for current owners as updating hardware is rarely done except for defects - it's not as easy as applying a software patch. An NV10SE or NV11 would only be good news for future buyers.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: arc7urus] #2785541
11/28/18 08:50 AM
11/28/18 08:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 26
A
abarax Offline
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abarax  Offline
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A

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 26
Originally Posted by arc7urus
Originally Posted by jgbs
Hello everyone.
The Kawai technician I've been harassing for several weeks, called me this morning to tell me that Kawai had received enough complaints from around the world on the NV10 but also on ca98 and had found the problem of distortion. This would come from sampling and a new version should be available quite soon, even if it seems like a very big job.
I hope this information will give hope to those who, like me, were very disappointed.


This sound like good news! What I do not get is why the Kawai technician saying that the problem relates to the samples. I have a CA98 and have never noticed distorted sound or problems with the samples - there are indeed a couple of notes that sound a bit louder and brighter, but that is likely just the result of the timbre and tuning of the acoustic SK-EX. The same happens with acoustic pianos and sample-based VSTs.

I also do not remember the NV10 owners complaining about distortion or buzzing through headphones. If there were problems with the samples, those could be even more noticeable through headphones than through the speakers. So, I am not exactly sure what a "sampling" problem means. Maybe Kawai is referring to a some sound processing issue before the sound is converted to analogue and amplified.

I am also not sure if the flash memory bank holding the samples can be updated by the end-user. If such an update ever happens, that would probably be the first time that a digital piano gets a sample update. Such updates are usually reserved for synths and for stage pianos from niche brands like Nord and Dexibell. To get the samples updated on a DP one needs to buy a new model...

BTW: is this info coming from Kawai Germany, whom I believe represent Kawai in Europe? Or from a local distributor in France?

The buzzing is still there with headphones. At this point I have just learned to ignore it and pray that kawai finds the issue and is able to fix it. I suspect that many people dont even realise that they suffer the issue. It took me a long time to notice it (a few months) because it is quite subtle and only on certain notes/combinations but once you hear it, you cannot unhear it unfortunately. It is good news that they might have recognized the issue.

Last edited by abarax; 11/28/18 08:50 AM.
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: abarax] #2785544
11/28/18 09:00 AM
11/28/18 09:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,066
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,066
Originally Posted by abarax
The buzzing is still there with headphones. At this point I have just learned to ignore it and pray that kawai finds the issue and is able to fix it. I suspect that many people dont even realise that they suffer the issue. It took me a long time to notice it (a few months) because it is quite subtle and only on certain notes/combinations but once you hear it, you cannot unhear it unfortunately. It is good news that they might have recognized the issue.

Could you give us an example of a particular note combination where the buzzing is strongest for you with headphones? I am going to be going to a dealer soon to test out the C98 and NV10 and want to check if this issue is unbearable for me.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
Re: Kawai Novus NV10 - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2785555
11/28/18 09:31 AM
11/28/18 09:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 298
Germany
T
Tyr Offline
Full Member
Tyr  Offline
Full Member
T

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 298
Germany
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Tyr
But good news: My dealer is close to the european Kawai location in Krefeld, Germany and said that Kawai is planning a new sound chip and samples for the novus instead of using the same like the CA98. I don't know if that's true but he talked about it without asking for knowing future improvements. So it seems there is something on the horizon for NV10 users.

Well, that is unlikely to be good news for current NV10 users. When hardware is changed, it rarely is good news for current owners as updating hardware is rarely done except for defects - it's not as easy as applying a software patch. An NV10SE or NV11 would only be good news for future buyers.


If Kawai isn't being completely silly, they better have a solution for current customers.


Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Lite & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
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