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Securing Loose Tuning Pins #2779744
11/10/18 09:41 AM
11/10/18 09:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 169
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Online content OP
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Duaner  Online Content OP
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Minto, NB Canada
I wanted to ask what you have found to be your best solutions to "on the spot" fixing of loose tuning pins? What method do you use to secure a pin (or more) so you can finish the tuning job and leave the house and go to your next tuning?

Last edited by Duaner; 11/10/18 09:43 AM.

Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
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Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2779963
11/11/18 01:53 AM
11/11/18 01:53 AM
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Posts: 1,818
Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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Low-viscosity (water-thin) CA glue ("superglue").

Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2780717
11/13/18 06:56 PM
11/13/18 06:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,389
Orange County, CA
KawaiDon Offline
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Orange County, CA
Of course, it depends!

Many times you can just tap the pin in slightly and it will be tighter, but it depends. C/A glue can also work, but it really smells bad and can run into unintended places. So not necessarily easy and quick.


Don Mannino, MPA
Kawai America
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2780763
11/13/18 10:23 PM
11/13/18 10:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 482
Maine, USA
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I would not simply jump to any treatments...
Tapping the pin deeper (support if it is a grand!)...If that does not appear to be enough (older pianos are a lot of time driven already)- then, try over-sized pin(s) ; it doesn't take long to replace a tuning pin if you have had any experience at all with it.
I just don't like the idea of treatments unless absolutely as a last choice.


Parks and Sons Piano Service
www.parksandsonspiano.com
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2780798
11/14/18 03:30 AM
11/14/18 03:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
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Oakland
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BDB Offline
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Good tuning technique.


Semipro Tech
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Rick_Parks] #2780866
11/14/18 11:19 AM
11/14/18 11:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 332
Omaha, NE
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adamp88 Offline
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Omaha, NE
Originally Posted by Rick_Parks
I would not simply jump to any treatments...
Tapping the pin deeper (support if it is a grand!)...If that does not appear to be enough (older pianos are a lot of time driven already)- then, try over-sized pin(s) ; it doesn't take long to replace a tuning pin if you have had any experience at all with it.
I just don't like the idea of treatments unless absolutely as a last choice.


Rick, have you tried CA treatment?


Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Piano Technician, University of Nebraska-Lincoln
ASB Piano Service
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2780973
11/14/18 03:41 PM
11/14/18 03:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 756
Lincoln, NE
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I've been using CA glue (Super Glue) for many years now (probably 10 or more) and it has always worked. However, I DO NOT advocate the water thin type. Yes, I think if you use water thin it will get in unintended places. For some reason the idea of a water thin CA glue has been perpetuated and it bugs me. Just use a good old medium viscosity and you'll be fine. I get mine from the Automotive section at WalMart. Four little tubes for a little over a dollar. Since it dries quickly it's not such a big deal when a little tubes dries up.

There are times when you have to crack the pins (back them off) to loosen the glue a bit, but then it's perfectly tunable.

The beauty is you can do just a few pins or one. You don't have to do the whole piano. The only time fumes are a problem is when you do a whole bunch or the whole piano. Usually it's not a problem. At least it hasn't been for me.

Also, this is not just a "band-aid" fix. It is permanent.

The other warning I'd give you is that once you use this, the piano will be very stable (depending on how many pins you use it on). I think I've actually lost business (repeat tunings) because the piano stayed in tune so well!


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2780996
11/14/18 05:32 PM
11/14/18 05:32 PM
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Posts: 1,818
Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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It has been thought that very low viscosity is best because it is more likely to wick in efficiently round the pin hole by capillary action, coating and reconstituting more of the wood.

I find the little ZAP Flexi-Tips excellent for getting precise control of dosage. They fit many CA tubes/bottles. https://www.modellingtools.co.uk/zap-flexi-tips-10443-p.asp

Last edited by David Boyce; 11/14/18 05:33 PM.
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781024
11/14/18 06:42 PM
11/14/18 06:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 332
Omaha, NE
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adamp88 Offline
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Omaha, NE
I've only ever used water-thin CA and have never had issues with it getting into unintended places. I totally agree that it's not just a bandaid fix - it's an extremely effective repair.


Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
Piano Technician, University of Nebraska-Lincoln
ASB Piano Service
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: adamp88] #2781028
11/14/18 07:02 PM
11/14/18 07:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,262
Reseda, California
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Reseda, California
Originally Posted by adamp88
I've only ever used water-thin CA and have never had issues with it getting into unintended places. .


Take the action out of a grand, lay an upright on its back, and the unintended places are out of danger.


-- J.S.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Knabe Grand # 10927
Yamaha CP33
Kawai FS690
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781061
11/14/18 09:10 PM
11/14/18 09:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,174
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Online content
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Joined: Feb 2017
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New Hampshire
Duaner,

First I would say that you need to discuss the matter with the piano owner. They need to know that their piano has some problems. Your options are:

1) Tap it in. Very temporary and you can only do this on an upright. On a grand you must support the pinblock from underneath. Otherwise you could be guilty of damaging the pinblock which will lead to more problems.

2) Replace the pin with an oversize one. Turn it in rather than pound, unless an upright. Better than #1 but depending on the CAUSE of loosened, possibly still very temporary.

3) Chemically treat them. Either use of CA substances, or epoxy. Either direct introduction of CA into the block at base of TP, or remove pin, swab inside of hole with CA or epoxy, let cure and re-insert pin. This can work amazingly well.

4) If the piano really needs a new pinblock they to know it.

If you are inexperienced with CA I suggest you practice on a junk first to get the hang of it. Those of us doing this for many years have learned from EXPERIENCE that there are things you do and things you had better not do (one example is leaving an open bottle of the stuff on the piano or some piece of furniture or a rug...don't even think about it). Yes it is not rocket science but neither is it child's play. You CAN do damage that is hard to reverse, so you better practice on sonething that doesnt matter. It can truly do amazing things (if used wisely) and it can cause you untold trouble if you're not careful.

My .02

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 11/14/18 09:11 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781089
11/14/18 10:50 PM
11/14/18 10:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,722
PA
daniokeeper Offline
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Also, if you do a Search on PW's Piano Technician Forum under "loose tuning pins," you'll bring up a lot of additional information.


Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: P W Grey] #2781172
11/15/18 03:23 AM
11/15/18 03:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 105
Melbourne, Australia
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Hemloch Offline
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Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by P W Grey



2) Replace the pin with an oversize one. Turn it in rather than pound, unless an upright.



Pwg

Peter, why is it better to not turn an oversize pin into an upright pinblock? Pound into an upright pinblock?

Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781196
11/15/18 06:49 AM
11/15/18 06:49 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,818
Scotland
D
David Boyce Offline
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Scotland
Turning the pin in can be thought of as creating a thread of sorts in the wood, like using a tap to make a thread in a hole in metal. The threaded tuning pin then has its own thread in the wood, in which to (more easily) rotate.


Pounding the pin in crushes wood fibres round the pin, and creates no thread.

Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781197
11/15/18 06:51 AM
11/15/18 06:51 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,818
Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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Scotland
I do feel that if it is just the odd pin that is loose, using CA with the ZAP Flexi-Tip on the bottle is very quick, easy and non-invasive. The very fine tip gives excellent control, and it can be done without putting an upright piano on its back.

Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781251
11/15/18 11:00 AM
11/15/18 11:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 226
M
Michael P Walsh Offline
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Acetone is your friend when it comes to removing CA. It gets harder to remove the longer that CA cures. Acetone is almost certainly unkind to finishes and may not be great for the old bellows either.

Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781297
11/15/18 12:55 PM
11/15/18 12:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,222
Olympia, WA
rysowers Offline
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rysowers  Offline
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Olympia, WA
I find using a transfer pipette is the easiest way to apply thin CA to a loose pin - in an upright I just apply it at the top of the pin in small doses letting it soak in. They are super cheap. Yes, it will sometimes run a bit, but it's not big issue. If you are careful - have a head light and reading glasses - you can have a lot of control using the pipette.

[Linked Image]


Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781301
11/15/18 01:04 PM
11/15/18 01:04 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,818
Scotland
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David Boyce Offline
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Scotland
I've used those pipettes too, but I find the ZAP Flexi-Tips far easier to control and more precise.

Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781334
11/15/18 02:51 PM
11/15/18 02:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 169
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Online content OP
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Posts: 169
Minto, NB Canada


Has anyone ever used these https://www.howardpianoindustries.com/piano-wire-tuning-pins/ Metal Tuning Pin Bushings? And if yes please give some details. I have them in my tool box but have never used them although they seem a very good fix.


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Securing Loose Tuning Pins [Re: Duaner] #2781338
11/15/18 02:54 PM
11/15/18 02:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,419
Oakland
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BDB Offline
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Tuning pin bushings do not work, in my experience. Sandpaper works better.


Semipro Tech
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